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View Poll Results: What should be required for a Declaration of War to be made?
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Group A: Only the Foreign Affairs Minister has the power to make a Decalration of War
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0 |
0% |
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Group A: Only the President has the power to make a Decalration of War
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3 |
6.12% |
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Group B: Only the Prez/FAM can post a poll for a Declaration of war to be made, 51% in favor out the people polled is enough to pass
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15 |
30.61% |
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Group B: Only the Prez/FAM can post a poll for a Declaration of war to be made, 66% in favor out the people polled is enough to pass
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20 |
40.82% |
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Group C: Anyone can post a poll for a Declaration of War to be made, 51% in favor out the people polled is enough to pass
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4 |
8.16% |
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Group C: Anyone can post a poll for a Declaration of War to be made, 66% in favor out the people polled is enough pass
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7 |
14.29% |
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June 16, 2002, 12:18
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#1
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King
Local Time: 21:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sunshine State, USA
Posts: 1,104
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What should be required for a Declaration of War?
This one is for the constitution.
- Timeline
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June 16, 2002, 12:30
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#2
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Firaxis Games Programmer/Designer
Local Time: 22:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,567
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Group B, Option 2. Obviously 1 person can't decide to declare war or not, but I feel that some authority ought to recommend a declaration, followed by a 2/3 vote.
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June 16, 2002, 12:35
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#3
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:41
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
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other: a civ existing on the map.
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"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
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June 16, 2002, 12:35
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#4
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:41
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
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seriously, the foriegn minister should consult the military advisor, and they should set up a poll.
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
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June 16, 2002, 14:03
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#5
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Warlord
Local Time: 21:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: of a minor tribe of Orcs
Posts: 108
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Anyone can agitate for war. That is a fact. People can and do spout off reasons all the time for driving the local tank division over the border and killing and burning as much as possible. However, if anyone were allowed to poll for a war, then we would get a lot of wasted threads which would clutter up the forum, as the people in our civ with common sense said 'no!'
Also, i would not want to see one individual with the powers of life and death over our empire. (ex. the rumor is that UberKruX was elected for his ever-so-slight :rollseyes: insanity). Therefore Group B has the only options left. 66% sounds good. I dont want to get into a 1914 situation where the people want an war that only some can see really would bring down the empire.
__________________
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -- Theodore Roosevelt
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June 16, 2002, 15:00
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#6
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Deity
Local Time: 22:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Group B, except that the War Minister should also be able to post such a poll.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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June 16, 2002, 16:06
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#7
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King
Local Time: 22:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: of jack
Posts: 1,502
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Even though this is a minor issue. Why are people voting all of thier power away? Do you not trust yourself as a civ player? I agree with 67% but I think that anyone should be able to post it. Oh well, I'm in the minority.
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Accidently left my signature in this post.
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June 16, 2002, 18:32
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#8
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:41
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,138
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The military advisor is obviously in on it, and has to present ready plans, but he can't be the one that gives the final decision.
The war minister should be able to only post a private petition to the Prez / FA
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June 16, 2002, 19:57
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#9
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Firaxis Games Programmer/Designer
Local Time: 22:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,567
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sirotnikov
The military advisor is obviously in on it, and has to present ready plans, but he can't be the one that gives the final decision.
The war minister should be able to only post a private petition to the Prez / FA
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Agreed. We allllll know what UberKrux is up to, I think that's why Timeline didn't the include Minister of War. 
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June 16, 2002, 21:44
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#10
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King
Local Time: 21:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sunshine State, USA
Posts: 1,104
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Trip
Agreed. We allllll know what UberKrux is up to, I think that's why Timeline didn't the include Minister of War.
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June 16, 2002, 22:06
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#11
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Firaxis Games Programmer/Designer
Local Time: 22:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,567
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Hehe. 
Oh well, since it's being voted on the way it is, once it's adopted it will have to be officially amended.
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June 16, 2002, 22:22
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#12
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Emperor
Local Time: 20:41
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: of the Martian Empire
Posts: 4,969
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bad poll: many needed options are missing. I say either SMC or foreign advisor (but not the prez) should be able to make a poll, 51% needed...
__________________
Ham grass chocolate.
"This should be the question they ask you before you get to vote. If you answer 'no', then they brand you with a giant red 'I' on your forehead and you are forever barred from taking part in the electoral process again."--KrazyHorse
"I'm so very glad KH is Canadian."--Donegeal
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June 16, 2002, 22:33
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#13
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Firaxis Games Programmer/Designer
Local Time: 22:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,567
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Why them and not the President?  I'm not saying that just for my sake, but any subsequent Presidents.
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June 17, 2002, 02:18
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#14
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Prince
Local Time: 03:41
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 387
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Yes, why not the president? President is the head of the cabinet so he should be allowed to declare war, with a majority of 51%.
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Alea iacta est!
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June 17, 2002, 03:01
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#15
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Deity
Local Time: 20:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: of naught
Posts: 21,300
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Unbelievable. All the talk of power to the people, and the people are readily handing over the power to initiate discussions of major import.
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(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
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June 17, 2002, 10:56
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#16
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King
Local Time: 03:41
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,267
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Actually, it *must* be 66.67% to be approved
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Join the Civ2 Democratic Game! We have a banana option in every poll just for you to vote for!
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June 17, 2002, 12:02
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#17
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King
Local Time: 21:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
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Posts: 1,184
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I say 66% plus Prez and FM must agree.
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"What can you say about a society that says that God is dead and Elvis is alive?" Irv Kupcinet
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June 17, 2002, 14:00
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#18
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Settler
Local Time: 23:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: São Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 21
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Tarquinius
Yes, why not the president? President is the head of the cabinet so he should be allowed to declare war, with a majority of 51%.
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I Agree...
I think that the president can do anything unless people dont want with more than 66% or all ministers disagree.
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-=[Arkanjuca]=-
Nuking the hell...
\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/
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June 17, 2002, 14:36
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#19
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King
Local Time: 03:41
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Insert banana to play...
Posts: 1,661
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I voted for the prez to decide, cause he would lose the peoples support very soon, if he spontanously declears a war that he cannot handle!
Important note:
I think a poll in a constitutional clause, is an important matter! Therefore it should be made by (one or more of) the elected representatives... Other polls can be made by anyone?
Such a legislative poll, should also include the option:
- Invalidate this poll. So if there is a mistake/unclearity and it should not be amended this way, they people will have their say... before it's constitustionalized.
Historical note:
The elected repr. of a civ. did somtimes listen to the furious masses, and agitated for a war which they knew they could easily lose.
(Which also was the weakness of ancient Greek democracy, the demagogs. )
__________________
My words are backed with hard coconuts.
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June 17, 2002, 15:50
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#20
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Settler
Local Time: 21:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20
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Quote:
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Originally posted by UberKruX
other: a civ existing on the map.
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I like this idea!
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June 17, 2002, 16:12
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#21
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Prince
Local Time: 21:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 687
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Group 2 option B. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with handing powers like this over to the powers that be who were voted in by us. If we don't like our pres asking us to constantly declare war, then vote for someone different. Do most modern demos declare war if some random Joe or Office Glen off the street puts up a poll? no. This is a demo, and we need to trust those we've voted in. If you can't trust them on their decisions, why vote them in?
Sorry, I ramble, and probably don't make sense right now. Excuse me.
__________________
I AM.CHRISTIAN
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June 17, 2002, 16:50
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#22
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King
Local Time: 22:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,015
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i always like to give POWER TO THE PEOPLE but in this case, i think the president should have the ability to declare war. hey, we voted for him. anyway thats not going to win
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June 17, 2002, 17:31
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#23
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Warlord
Local Time: 18:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Posts: 194
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WHAT ABOUT THE MILITARY ADVISOR??
I think that he should have a say.
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If you don't feel the slightist bit joyful seeing the Iraqis dancing in the street, then you are lost to the radical left. If you don't feel the slightest bit bad that we had to use force to do this, then you are lost to the radical right.
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June 17, 2002, 17:44
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#24
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Settler
Local Time: 23:41
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: São Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 21
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Trevman
WHAT ABOUT THE MILITARY ADVISOR??
I think that he should have a say.
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For sure!
__________________
-=[Arkanjuca]=-
Nuking the hell...
\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/
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