4 Things That Really Bug Me

[ReallyClang]

1) The AI always knows how much I'm making per turn but I can't see their income.

2) The AI always knows what I am researching and how many turns I have left until I complete that research. I don't have that information about them.

3) I have to contact each Civ individually to see the trades I currently have active and how many turns until they expire. Way too tedious.

4) If I lose a game, the program tells me "You have suffered a humiliating defeat" but it doesn't say how I lost (space race, UN vote, domination?). There doesn't seem to be any way to determine unless my score happens to be high enough to make the HOF.

I wonder if these things will be improved for PTW.

[Jaybe]

Well Stated!
... other than #2. How did you deduce that?

From what I have read, it is implied that #3 will be much improved and streamlined.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by ReallyClang
1) The AI always knows how much I'm making per turn but I can't see their income.

Try talking to them in diplomacy and see how much they have, then check back next turn. Assuming they don't give or recieve money from another civ or hut that turn, it's easy to find out.

2) The AI always knows what I am researching and how many turns I have left until I complete that research. I don't have that information about them.

How do you know this?

3) I have to contact each Civ individually to see the trades I currently have active and how many turns until they expire. Way too tedious.

Perhaps... but that doesn't seem major. It's not too hard to bring up diplomacy, especially since you can do it through the info box and not the foreign advisor.

4) If I lose a game, the program tells me "You have suffered a humiliating defeat" but it doesn't say how I lost (space race, UN vote, domination?). There doesn't seem to be any way to determine unless my score happens to be high enough to make the HOF.

Good idea. I would like to know how I was defeated.

[Capt Dizle]

#2 Well, Soren said that the cost of buying tech is based in part on how many turns you have left to get it. If you are close to researching Flight for example, you will get it cheaper than if you are just starting or not researching it at all.

Conversely, this affects what the AI is willing to pay.

This may have been changed for v1.21.

[ReallyClang]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Well Stated!
... other than #2. How did you deduce that?

From what I have read, it is implied that #3 will be much improved and streamlined.

When you are behind in research and try to trade for it, the AI always offers a better deal for whatever you are researching and the deal improves more the closer you get to completing it.

[ReallyClang]

Originally posted by cyclotron7


Try talking to them in diplomacy and see how much they have, then check back next turn. Assuming they don't give or recieve money from another civ or hut that turn, it's easy to find out.




It's not too hard to bring up diplomacy, especially since you can do it through the info box and not the foreign advisor.

Having to bring up diplomacy for 7 different civs is a major pain as far as I'm concerned. And to try to figure out what each is making per turn is unreliable since they can change the rates from turn to turn. The interface should show the same info the AI has in my opinion. What they are researching and how many turns until complete, how much money they make per turn in addition to the amount of gold they have and also a summary of all open deals and how many turns remain for all civs would sure be helpful.

[Capt Dizle]

Yeah, try playing a 16 civ game and keep track of who is at war and peace, who has MPPs and ROPs and stuff like that.

Can anyone say user interface impaired?

Still, I can see the rationale for not showing some of the info that RC wants, but spying it should be available somehow.

[Ben Williams]

All these things are part of what I call a sloppy interface. I find myself looking for capitals to do spy missions, or as you say, going through a million civs to get simple trade info. One other thing that bugs me is inbetween turns when it goes over your cities to tell you what's happened it skips around, rather than just tell you what happened in one area and then moving on. Actually, what I would like to see is a turn summery rather than having to go everywhere to see what's going on. I'm a bit off topic here, sorry.

[Cyclotron]

jt, I understand that the foreign advisor screen can be complicated, but that is a function of the amount of civs more than an "impaired interface." I can't think of a better way to implement the FA screen... diplomacy is complicated, and the screen already simplifies well by allowing you to add/remove lines, etc.

Originally posted by Ben Williams
All these things are part of what I call a sloppy interface. I find myself looking for capitals to do spy missions,

Use the espionage button.

[YuMMz]

Well I definitely agree with some sort of trade window showing you your active trades. I typically get 2-3 luxuries and 600-900 gold per turn total from numerous civs. The problem with this is it is very hard to keep track of who is giving me how much money and when I can expect it to end. Also sometimes I pull up the active trade window and instead of it say "(13)130 gold per turn" it will just say "130 gold per turn". Now originally I assumed this meant that I was on the last turn of getting 130 gold from this civ. BUT the next turn it still had that trade there and it was still there 5 turns later. It did go away but I stopped checking so I am not sure exactly when. Please put in some kind of Active trade summary window!

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by YuMMz
Also sometimes I pull up the active trade window and instead of it say "(13)130 gold per turn" it will just say "130 gold per turn". Now originally I assumed this meant that I was on the last turn of getting 130 gold from this civ. BUT the next turn it still had that trade there and it was still there 5 turns later. It did go away but I stopped checking so I am not sure exactly when. Please put in some kind of Active trade summary window!

When there is no number by a trade or treaty, it means the 20 turns has passed but the treaty is still active. Either person may cancel it with no penalty because the 20 turns has passed, but until it is cancelled it remains active.

[YuMMz]

If this is true how is it that I offered a tech for 130 gold per turn. Then when 20 turns passed the computer did not cancel this trade? That makes no sense, obviously since they already have recieved their tech they would cancel this tech ASAP and stop paying me money yet it went on for 5+ more turns?

[Theseus]

#2

The cost of researching a tech is driven by its diffusion. This is true for the AI civs as well as the player.

There is a misperception, I think, that the AI civs will sell techs to you for less when you have almost completed the research. I think it's just that the tech is widely known, and thus progressively less expensive.

[zulu9812]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
Try talking to them in diplomacy and see how much they have, then check back next turn. Assuming they don't give or recieve money from another civ or hut that turn, it's easy to find out.

Thing is, if you frequently contact the AI without actually trading with them, they get annoyed with you.

[alva]

Originally posted by zulu9812


Thing is, if you frequently contact the AI without actually trading with them, they get annoyed with you.

i've noticed this too.

does anyone know for sure if this is true or not?

[Coracle]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Yeah, try playing a 16 civ game and keep track of who is at war and peace, who has MPPs and ROPs and stuff like that.

Can anyone say user interface impaired?

Currently played with 16 civs, and the Diplomacy screen is such a jumble of lines it gives you a headache - and that is just showing the Alliances and MPP's.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Theseus
#2

The cost of researching a tech is driven by its diffusion. This is true for the AI civs as well as the player.

There is a misperception, I think, that the AI civs will sell techs to you for less when you have almost completed the research. I think it's just that the tech is widely known, and thus progressively less expensive.

Actually, I think that's wrong. I'm pretty sure the AI does know how many turns you have to go, because buying the tech will get cheaper and cheaper, even if no new civs discover it (thus devaluing it). Next time you've got 1 neighbor in the ancient age, test it out before killing them.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by alva848


i've noticed this too.

does anyone know for sure if this is true or not?

Not true. I'm positive about it, both due to my own experience, and the fact that one of the Firaxians specifically stated that it's not true (I think it was Soren).

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Arrian, you sure? If so, does tech cost decrease for ALL as it gets closer to being discovered? Is it that the AI knows your progress, or is it just a general function?

[Harovan]

Theseus: I second Arrians information. Tech gets cheaper with progressing own research. This works for both, the AI and the player.

On topic: You can roughly estimate the amount of cash the AI makes per turn, as soon as they get a Republic or Monarchy and start to offer own per-turn trades. Just offer something just for gold per turn and check their answers. Demand more and more per turn. As soon as your trade advisor switches from "They would probably be insulted by this deal" to "They would never accept such a deal", you're there.

[MiloMilo]

Makes sense though - if an AI would pay me 100 gold for a tech when they have 10 turns left to build it, they shouldn't offer me the same thing 5 turns later. I'd only be saving them half the time, so they should only pay me half the price.

Now, it might be a bit strange that this could work in reverse (i.e. what they offer changes as I get closer to researching something). I could definitely see how you might get the idea that they know what you're doing. But in actuality I think it is just a factor of the trading valuation algorithms. It's not like they're basing their strategy on what you're researching (as you surely would if you knew what they were researching), it's just that it has a different value on the trading table. This should not be changed IMO.

[YuMMz]

Contacting the AI and not doing anything does not affect how they feel about you. But if the AI contacts you with a deal and you turn them down and do not offer them anything then it does impact your relationship. I usually just turn down their deal and give them 5gold for making the trip to talk to me ;P. Ever since I started doing this I have been on better terms with the AI across the board.

[Jaybe]

Re: Keeping track of your trade agreements without going through the individual diplomacy screens.

Write them down.
No, I never go to the 'trouble' of doing that either.

[ACooper]

Originally posted by Arrian


Not true. I'm positive about it, both due to my own experience, and the fact that one of the Firaxians specifically stated that it's not true (I think it was Soren).

-Arrian

Soren stated in one of the first chats that just contacting a Civ has no bearing on thier attitude either way.

[ReallyClang]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Theseus: I second Arrians information. Tech gets cheaper with progressing own research. This works for both, the AI and the player.

This is certainly true. I just finished a Monarch game with continents where I was on a small island with room for just 6 cities. I decided to play the game out to see if I could survive or even win. I missed the Great Lighthouse by 1 turn so didn't contact another civ until about 600 AD. By this time I was way behind in tech. I offered to trade but the only deal available was for the tech I was currently researching. It may work both ways but I can't tell what the other civs are researching and that is my complaint.

By the way, I did manage to survive. I fortified my little island with knights and musketmen and any time I was attacked, I managed to cut down the attackers. By 1904 I was building my first space ship component when I "suffered a humiliating defeat." It really bugs me that it can't at least say how I lost though I suspect it was a space race defeat.

On topic: You can roughly estimate the amount of cash the AI makes per turn, as soon as they get a Republic or Monarchy and start to offer own per-turn trades. Just offer something just for gold per turn and check their answers. Demand more and more per turn. As soon as your trade advisor switches from "They would probably be insulted by this deal" to "They would never accept such a deal", you're there.

Again, this is way too tedious. The problem could easily be solved on the trade advisors screen where it shows how much gold a civ has if it would also show how much gold the civ is currently making per turn and what they are researching along with how many turns it has left until that research is complete. The AI knows this stuff. Just give me the same info.

[ReallyClang]

Originally posted by Ben Williams
All these things are part of what I call a sloppy interface. I find myself looking for capitals to do spy missions, or as you say, going through a million civs to get simple trade info. One other thing that bugs me is inbetween turns when it goes over your cities to tell you what's happened it skips around, rather than just tell you what happened in one area and then moving on. Actually, what I would like to see is a turn summery rather than having to go everywhere to see what's going on. I'm a bit off topic here, sorry.

Right on topic. Make that 5 things that really bug me. It flashes notices that this city is rioting and pollution struck that city and so on but the messages disappear so you have to look all over to figure out what happened. Keep the messages visible until you clear 'em Firaxis.

A 6th thing is the fact that the workers are not replaced automatically when you clean up pollution. You have to go through each city that had pollution and manually replace the workers.

[Coracle]

Oh, locating active units on tundra is often difficult. The entire unit should flash on tundra.

[foo12]

What bothers me is when I'm the first voyager between continents and the AI pesters me for contact with Civs on the other Continent. True the human player can do the same, but it just doesn't seem logical that either the player or the AI would be aware of other Civs unless explicitly offered contact by a Civ which is already aware of their existence.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by YuMMz
If this is true how is it that I offered a tech for 130 gold per turn. Then when 20 turns passed the computer did not cancel this trade? That makes no sense, obviously since they already have recieved their tech they would cancel this tech ASAP and stop paying me money yet it went on for 5+ more turns?

If the gpt is part of a peace negotiation, then it becomes your annual tribute, until you cancel the peace treaty. Just click on active trades, and renegotiate.

[Alex]

On topic: You can roughly estimate the amount of cash the AI makes per turn, as soon as they get a Republic or Monarchy and start to offer own per-turn trades. Just offer something just for gold per turn and check their answers. Demand more and more per turn. As soon as your trade advisor switches from "They would probably be insulted by this deal" to "They would never accept such a deal", you're there.

This is all well and good, but, as RC said, it is tedious. I know that there is a way to estimate the amount of cash the AI makes per turn, I just want it to be easily accessible.

What bothers me is when I'm the first voyager between continents and the AI pesters me for contact with Civs on the other Continent. True the human player can do the same, but it just doesn't seem logical that either the player or the AI would be aware of other Civs unless explicitly offered contact by a Civ which is already aware of their existence.

Hmm... Such a huge discovery would quickly become known by other civs, anyway. People would talk about it on the streets, the rumor would spread and soon the other civs would be knowing about it. Of course, we are talking about discovering a new continent full of other civs.