The Nationalist Party: Our Last Best Hope

[PresidentMike]

Citizens of the Republic! We face a great crisis! There is a spectre haunting our great nation, and unless we act quickly, our vital national interests will be sacrificed upon the altar of petty ethics and moral handwringing!

Certain high minded intellectuals, weak in body and spirit, are gaining more and more influence in our great government. Their words spread like a disease among most of our leaders! Black words, such as "peaceful expansion" and "industrail development." These bleeding hearts, with their myriad of morals and principles, do not have the stomach or the strength to do what *needs* to be done! They have lost site of the *only* principle: the advancement of our nation!

Citizens, our situation is clear. We must do what is right for our country! This alone should guide us! The Nationalist Party calls for the research of the latest military technology, the formation of modern military units, and the building of military improvements. We call for the creation of a system of roads to speed the advance of our armies. We say that in foreign affairs we should take what is rightfully ours! We advocate aggressive military expansion as a way to gain money, maps, territory and technology! And finally, we urge that these measures be put into place before it is to late!

UberKrux, our magnificent military minister, has said it best:

we have [no] time to putz around with our infinately large jungle while the AI expands rapidly on a huge world.

we shall soon find ourselves surrounded, with all the good land grabbed.

Quote taken from: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=53515

Citzens, our situation is clear. Either we act quickly and decisivley, or we are destroyed! The bleeding hearts may be content to peacefully submit to destruction, but we are not!

There is yet time to save our people and bring glory to our nation. The Nationalist Party calls on all like minded citizens, government ministers, and political parties to join us in our great crusade. United, we cannot fail! Come and stand with us against our enemies, and together we will make our land strong!

[Spiffor]

The best way to be destroyed is to attack the enemy when we don't stand a chance. How many of us said the aia was "stupid" when it declared an already lost, suicidal war ? Without iron or horses, I don't see how we could triumph in battle. Enemy swordsmen will cost as much as our archers, because of the AI production bonuses.
Your party doesn't intend to do what we have to do. Your party is raw ideology. And this ideology will lead us to a humiliating defeat.

[PresidentMike]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Your party doesn't intend to do what we have to do. Your party is raw ideology. And this ideology will lead us to a humiliating defeat.

What is politics but a war between competing ideologies? And this party intends to do exactly what we must do, which is to do whatever is necessary to expand our borders and build our military strength.

[Harovan]

I think the approach of the Nationalist party is very good. At the given difficulty level, an early war is a must, or our defeat will be certain. As soon as we crippled our neighbors (hope it's not an island...), we'll succeed to build up much better than now, and we may have a leader for a well placed FP.

Spiffor: The AI performs lousy in early wars (just like in any others). Do not fear it. You can only win in an ancient war. Even if you didn't achieve your primary goal (take the enemy capital early), which is unlikely if you do it well, the AI will give you techs and gold for peace, after about 10 turns of war are over.

Alas, I won't join any political party. Wish you good luck.

[Guardian]

Originally posted by PresidentMike
The Nationalist Party calls for the research of the latest military technology, the formation of modern military units, and the building of military improvements. We call for the creation of a system of roads to speed the advance of our armies.

I'm curious to learn how you plan to achieve these things without industrial development (-which you have termed a "black word")...

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by PresidentMike


What is politics but a war between competing ideologies? And this party intends to do exactly what we must do, which is to do whatever is necessary to expand our borders and build our military strength.

Whatever is necessary? That will definately lead us to a complete and total defeat. And a very embarassing one at that.

We must strike a balance between peace and war. If we mindlessly declare war against the AI just to expand our borders, they will use their production bonuses against us. They will gain allies as they always do. At this level, negotating with the AI is quite hard for us, and that will give them the advantage.

We must think carefully before going to war, as war at the wrong moment could be fatal. The AI will eventually form alliances against us, and with your "do everyting necessary to expand borders" ideology we will soon be at war with the entire world. And a war with the world is a war that cannot be won.

[Spiffor]

Please do not confuse "what we have to do" with "what we have to do to expand our military strength". These two things are completely different. Our military "strength", without iron or horses, will be laughable, no matter how many units we'll churn out. Rather than wasting our production in useless units, we'll have to expand our empire by settling on unclaimed territory, to become really and structurally stronger.
Your options are those of the true weak : the one who cannot build up everlasting strength.

[PresidentMike]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000 If we mindlessly declare war against the AI just to expand our borders, they will use their production bonuses against us. They will gain allies as they always do. At this level, negotating with the AI is quite hard for us, and that will give them the advantage.

Perhaps some clarification is in order.

You are quite right when you say that we should not "mindlessly go to war." That is not what the party stands for. We do not advocate immiediete attacks whenever we meet a rival civ. War is a complicated effort that requires proper preperation. After we meet a civ, we should begin planning their downfall: moving units into place, setting the diplomatic stage, etc.

The Nationalists advocate military expansion as the only way to save our nation. But we do not advocate stupid or foolhardy attacks. We advocate well planned precision strikes against our enemies.

Also, for those of you who decry the lack of horses or iron: we must make scientific discoveries before we can even see these resources. That is why this party advocates researching those technologies that will lead to a military advantage.

[Nubclear]

Perhaps more claficiation is in order, because declaring war against a civilization just because we want more territory is, unless there are very valid reasons, mindlessly declaring war.

Is that what the nationalist party stands for?

[Harovan]

Early wars, capturing cities "to gain territory", are foolish. Because capturing is not the primary goal for the early attacks. The goal is to cripple and slow down the AI's expansion, and to extort techs for peace. 10 build libraries are nil compared with 2-3 techs, gold and may be a city beaten out of an AI civ in an early war.

[Duddha]

I purpose that the Nationalist party should merge with the Hawk party or create a coalition. If the warmongers split their votes all hopes for early expansion will be lost.

[Ninot]

well if the Nationalists and the Hawks unite.. just from an outside point of view, I suggest you drop the Nationalist name in favor the of the Hawk name...

the name "Nationalist" is often associated with racism.
Take for example "National Socialist Party (Nazi party)" and certain extreme groups such as the "National Socialist White People's Party"

(yea, I know Socialist is in both of them too..., so...)

and i can't not mention my hometown extrememist group.. the Seperatist party.. with many members who are labled as "nationalists", who have specific goals of ridding Quebec of all english speaking peoples.

Im just sayin... Nationalism is bad.

[jdd2007]

ummm, i wouldnt mind merging. our views are basically the same

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Early wars, capturing cities "to gain territory", are foolish. Because capturing is not the primary goal for the early attacks. The goal is to cripple and slow down the AI's expansion, and to extort techs for peace. 10 build libraries are nil compared with 2-3 techs, gold and may be a city beaten out of an AI civ in an early war.

not exactly sir ralph.

i understand what you are stating, but you have to factor in the whole "democratic" nature of this game.

the people (albiet perhaps a minority) won't stand for small skirmishes with AIs, as you often use / discuss. they just wont let us declare war on people we see just because we should "trim" them a bit.

so i'm basically stuck with the choice that we should attack the first people we see, the french, and make use of their land.

if the people wish to smack them areound, and then extort them, i'll allow it, although i'd rather take ALL their land, and use it as a
base for conquering the others.

i value your opinions and strategies. keep them comming.

this post brought to you by supreme military commander UberKruX. Glory Comes From Spilt Blood.

[jdd2007]

Originally posted by Ninot
well if the Nationalists and the Hawks unite.. just from an outside point of view, I suggest you drop the Nationalist name in favor the of the Hawk name...

the name "Nationalist" is often associated with racism.
Take for example "National Socialist Party (Nazi party)" and certain extreme groups such as the "National Socialist White People's Party"

(yea, I know Socialist is in both of them too..., so...)

and i can't not mention my hometown extrememist group.. the Seperatist party.. with many members who are labled as "nationalists", who have specific goals of ridding Quebec of all english speaking peoples.

Im just sayin... Nationalism is bad.

i definitely agree. plus, 'the hawk party' sounds cool...

[Ninot]

Originally posted by UberKruX
the people (albiet perhaps a minority) won't stand for small skirmishes with AIs, as you often use / discuss. they just wont let us declare war on people we see just because we should "trim" them a bit.

so i'm basically stuck with the choice that we should attack the first people we see, the french, and make use of their land.

if the people wish to smack them areound, and then extort them, i'll allow it, although i'd rather take ALL their land, and use it as a
base for conquering the others.

Even tho im with what is supposed to be those who are weak in body mind and spirit, or whatever, and a member of the DIA party.. i WHOLE heartedly agree with Uber's main sentiment.

Small wars are not worth their trouble. If we are gonna go into a war, it has to be for the whole deal, not just minor pieces of land or resource.

Small wars do two things. 1: They make a neighbor angry
2: they make a neihbor more worthless in trade (cuz they are losing commerce and resources to buy/trade with, and cuz they demand more cuz they are angry).

If we are to commit to a war, which im sure we will (most likely with the French), we have to conquer, not just skirmish. Conquering prevents any flipping-back, and it gives the best benefits in the end.

[Timeline]

Certain high minded intellectuals, weak in body and spirit, are gaining more and more influence in our great government. Their words spread like a disease among most of our leaders! Black words, such as "peaceful expansion" and "industrail development." These bleeding hearts, with their myriad of morals and principles, do not have the stomach or the strength to do what *needs* to be done! They have lost site of the *only* principle: the advancement of our nation!

This is the most pathetic attempt for a party I have seen yet. Of course we may need to go to war early, after all what good is pursuing industrial development if you don't have anything to industrialize??? This is debatable, but in the end a issue that shall be decided by the people.

You fail, however, to undertand the more important issues of our nation and our "advancement".

Why are we all here? And not just playing SP games alone and by ourselves? We are here because we desire to run a great nation by democracy, and lead it to supremacy. Supporting advancement is all well and good, but there is more to a party and politics than just that.

Support a party who is willing to make our democracy work and has the drive and will to make it happen in a way beneficial for all. The DIA is a balanced party and we are by no means toothless. We posses the determination and moral strength to execute any directive the people determine as in the best interests of our “advancement”. We are smart, clever, witty and intelligent - traits your party has yet to develop. We are not blinded by nationalism and patriotism, but keep our eyes and minds open, always ready to move in any direction that best serves our nation, and accomplish anything the people deem advantageous.

The Democratic Industrialists of Apolyton, executers of success and a strong arm of the people.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Timeline
This is the most pathetic attempt for a party I have seen yet.

hrm, thats rather rude.

[PresidentMike]

Originally posted by Timeline
This is the most pathetic attempt for a party I have seen yet.

Thank the Gods that we have an Imperial Expansion Officer who believes in debating the issues and refuses to hurl mud!

We are smart, clever, witty and intelligent...

You are?!?! Really!?!? Wow!?!? I hadn't noticed.

...traits your party has yet to develop.

You want to hear something funny. Ok, try this. A DIA member is walking through the hills one day when he comes across a shephard tending his flock. "Excuse me," said the DIA member to the shephard, "but if I can guess how many sheep you have, will you give me one?" The shephard thinks that the probability of him guessing the exact number of sheep is pretty low, so he agrees. "You have 72 sheep," says the member. "Wow," says the shephard. "That's right." The DIA man selects an animal and is walking away when the shephard suddenly says, "If I can guess what party you belong to, will you give me back my sheep?" Thinking that there is no way that the shephard will be able to guess, the member agrees. "You belong to the Democratic Industrialists of Apolyton." "Wow," says the DIA member, "how'd you know?" "Put the dog down," says the shephard, "and we'll talk about it."



Was that funny enough for you?

Support a party who is willing to make our democracy work and has the drive and will to make it happen in a way beneficial for all.

Apparently for the DIA, "all" is defined as up to (and especially including) our enemies!

We posses the determination and moral strength to execute any directive the people determine as in the best interests of our “advancement”.

Well, I'm man enough to admit when I was wrong, and I was wrong about the DIA. It's not that they have to many principles, it's that they have too few. They have no plan, no initiative, no advice or vision. Instead, they blow like a leaf on the breeze, blindly following the latest trend like a group of Beverley Hills girls in a shopping mall.

Support a party with a plan for the future, with the vision and strength to build a powerful and glorious nation! Support the Nationalists!

[civman2000]

No, "all" includes everyone. In what we choose for the game you may not be happy, but we call for an equal democracy for everyone, including our enemies. In other words, we are the Industrialist version of the ACLU in Apolyton .

[Guardian]

Originally posted by PresidentMike
Thank the Gods that we have an Imperial Expansion Officer who believes in debating the issues and refuses to hurl mud!

Look who's talking...

Apparently for the DIA, "all" is defined as up to (and especially including) our enemies!

"All" means all.
It's that simple, really.

Well, I'm man enough to admit when I was wrong, and I was wrong about the DIA. It's not that they have to many principles, it's that they have too few. They have no plan, no initiative, no advice or vision. Instead, they blow like a leaf on the breeze, blindly following the latest trend like a group of Beverley Hills girls in a shopping mall.

Supporting evidence, please?

-Or are you just here to fling dirt and unfounded allegations?

Support a party with a plan for the future, with the vision and strength to build a powerful and glorious nation! Support the Nationalists!

-Or you could support a party that's actually trying to build that nation, as opposed to being busy making enemies for themselves - foreign and domestic...

[civman2000]

STOP FLAMING! Both sides are guilty, stop the personal attacks. I'm going to tell Ming soon if you don't...

[Guardian]

Originally posted by civman2000
STOP FLAMING! Both sides are guilty, stop the personal attacks.

Agreed. Stopped 15 minutes ago.

[Timeline]

You want to hear something funny. Ok, try this. A DIA member is walking through the hills one day when he comes across a shephard tending his flock. "Excuse me," said the DIA member to the shephard, "but if I can guess how many sheep you have, will you give me one?" The shephard thinks that the probability of him guessing the exact number of sheep is pretty low, so he agrees. "You have 72 sheep," says the member. "Wow," says the shephard. "That's right." The DIA man selects an animal and is walking away when the shephard suddenly says, "If I can guess what party you belong to, will you give me back my sheep?" Thinking that there is no way that the shephard will be able to guess, the member agrees. "You belong to the Democratic Industrialists of Apolyton." "Wow," says the DIA member, "how'd you know?" "Put the dog down," says the shephard, "and we'll talk about it."

Okay, I got one for you.....

2 DIA and a nationalist were out on a boat whale hunting. Although no one els yet knew how to make a boat, tassadar had showed the 2 DIA how and invited this nationalist to come along fishing so they could talk about politics. The first DIA said he forgot his work tablet, and got up out of the boat and started walking across the water! What?! thought the nationalist, how is that possible. "By the god of Mars!" the DIA shouted jeeringly. A short time later the other DIA stated he forgot his bean slider, and assured the nationalist he would return shortly. He promptly got up and started walking across the water just like the first...all the way to shore. "By the gods!" The man shouted.

The nationalist, so angered that these men would have the support of his God, was sure that his god would also give him the power too. Leader Trip would also use his godlike powers to protect him!

At this time the DIA were standing by the shoreline and were shouting: "Will not your despot protect you?! Will the god of Mars find favor in you as he did us?"

Infuriated, the nationalist got up out of the boat and started running, at first on the water, but then stumbled and doubled over into the water.

"How" the nationalist called out right before sinking (as he couldn't swim.)

"We knew where the rocks were"

Ok ok, and the DIA jumped in and saved him (he is a fellow Apolyton after all, no matter how arrogant.)

Apparently for the DIA, "all" is defined as up to (and especially including) our enemies!

Guardian put it best.

Well, I'm man enough to admit when I was wrong, and I was wrong about the DIA. It's not that they have to many principles, it's that they have too few. They have no plan, no initiative, no advice or vision.

Why don't you take enough time to research the posts of some our members before making such ignorant and foolhardy statements. Everyone one of us on the government has MANY plans (don't confuse that with none). We are CONSTANTLY advising the people with vigilence, and we have a vision alright. A vision where Apolytonia is number 1 and where we can began our satisfying work of building it up to a nation that has influence in every corner of the world.

Instead, they blow like a leaf on the breeze, blindly following the latest trend like a group of Beverley Hills girls in a shopping mall.

Lol, that's a good one, I'll have to remember that.

We don't blindly do anything. We can point out the pros and cons of any action that is proposed to be taken. We are levelheaded, and we are always looking for flaws and also advantages in our plans.

Someone who does not bend to the people is not a democrat, but rather a tyrant. And this game is not only about winning, but about letting all 142 people have a say in what our nation does. That's the most important thing, but remains the most forgotten.

[PresidentMike]

Here's another one Timeline:

A Nationalist, a Hawk and a DIA member are stranded together on a lonely island, when they suddenley discover a lamp. They rub it, and out pops a genie. "Normally, I give whoever frees me 3 wishes," says the genie. "But since there are already 3 of you, each of you gets one wish a piece." "I wish to be taken back home," says the Nationalist; the genie nods her head and he is instantly transported back home. "I' wish to go back to my family," says the Hawk. The genie nods her head and the Hawk is instantly rejoined with his family. Finally, it's the DIA member's turn. "Hmmm," he says, "this is a tough one. There's really nothing for me at home, and the closest thing I have to a family are the two guys who just left. I wish they were back here with me."

Originally posted by Guardian
are you just here to fling dirt and unfounded allegations?

Well, yeah. Aren't you? I thought that was the point.

Originally posted by civman2000
In other words, we are the Industrialist version of the ACLU in Apolyton .

It's funny; in the real world I'm a member of the ACLU.

[Timeline]

Originally posted by PresidentMike
Here's another one Timeline:

A Nationalist, a Hawk and a DIA member are stranded together on a lonely island, when they suddenley discover a lamp. They rub it, and out pops a genie. "Normally, I give whoever frees me 3 wishes," says the genie. "But since there are already 3 of you, each of you gets one wish a piece." "I wish to be taken back home," says the Nationalist; the genie nods her head and he is instantly transported back home. "I' wish to go back to my family," says the Hawk. The genie nods her head and the Hawk is instantly rejoined with his family. Finally, it's the DIA member's turn. "Hmmm," he says, "this is a tough one. There's really nothing for me at home, and the closest thing I have to a family are the two guys who just left. I wish they were back here with me."

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh that was great.......lol........