Size DOES Matter!

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I wrote something about this a week ago. It was in my observation of my latest monarch game thread. My concept of core cities, specialist cities, and resource cities are quite close to what vel is talking about here. You can check it out if you have time to find it.

[Arrian]

I look at that last post of mine... and I can't help but laugh. I haven't done any such thing. I remain a "purist" - building cities with minimal to no overlap.

-Arrian

[Harm]

I am a complete purist on any game with just a little room. That overlapping blocked out square irritates me to no end. But this may be why I'm having issues and have yet to win at Emperor and above. I've actually gone to the extent of abandoning my own city when improperly placed, losing the settler I had just plopped down...it's kind of sick really.

On really cramped areas I will overlap, but I minimize overlap as much as possible, which on a large portion of those games I lost shortly into the Medieval ages. So it seems I have something to learn from the Borg mentality.

[Velociryx]

If anything, I've gone even further over to the Borg side....these days, my first four cities are built with a potential archer rush (and sometimes Warrior rush) in mind, and to that end, they're three tiles out from the capitol, in every cardinal direction. After that, I expand to four tiles out to take advantage of starting border sizes, but there's always at least a bit of overlap in my cities.

-=Vel=-

EDIT: Often, the cities I found immediately following my core four around the capitol are indeed five tiles out, simply because my borders have expanded before the next settlers get built, and I can enclose more territory that way.
-V.

[Theseus]

Boy, re-reading this thread just give me a great idea...

[David Murray]

I'm really beginning to think that any game which requires this kind of level of complexity probably isn't worth it unless you REALLY enjoy subjecting yourself to this kind of mental repetition for hours on end.

In fact, I think this thread has killed all final doubts in my head - this game is better off uninstalled from my computer and the CD put in some dark place where I will never be able to find it again, lest I be tempted.

c'est un piece de merde!

[Theseus]

Yeah, chess sucks too.

[Arrian]

Theseus, what's your "great idea?"

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Not yet, not yet.

[gumbytech]

Hey, sorry to intrude with a basic question but these strategies cause me ask.

What are the pop numbers for town, city, metropolis and how does the defense bonus change?

Very excellent thread. This game is getting really nice.

[Theseus]

Town: Below 7 pop, no defense bonus (but you can build walls)
City: 7 and above, 50%
Metro: 13 and above, 100%

[Arrian]

I'd just like to point out that the above post is an excellent illustration of why warfare is best done in the first 2 ages. Once you start running into infantry in metropoli, bad things happen.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Your journey towards the dark side is complete.

[Harovan]

Time to turn him back. Give peace a chance!

[Arrian]

I intend to, Sir Ralph. AU102 should be fun. I'm excited to see if I can beat the AI to some wonders. Building nothing but workers, settlers and improvements, it may well be possible.

But now that I've seen the Power of the Dark Side, I will most often choose to smack the AI around.

-Arrian

[dawidge]

...forever will it dominate your destiny.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Arrian
I'd just like to point out that the above post is an excellent illustration of why warfare is best done in the first 2 ages. Once you start running into infantry in metropoli, bad things happen.

-Arrian

I love infantry warfare.

[dawidge]

Especially when my MA is mowing them down

[Odin]

Originally posted by dawidge
Especially when my MA is mowing them down

I love burning poorly placed enemy cities to the ground and repacing thiem with 6 tile apart cultural masterpieces with tons of wonders and choked full of improvements.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[jshelr]

Just a little borg story. Last couple of games I've been experimenting with packing cities with just one square between, or sometimes two, with lots of grassland mines and irrigated plains. Building no buildings but barracks after awhile. While I'm not using up much turf, the AI goes crazy expanding toward me. The result has been an overly extended AI neighbor ripe for plucking by, in this case, Persian immortals, who can be produced with pretty decent frequency by these packed cities. The moral -- rather than rush out to block the AI expansion, let them use up all their shields making settlers and escorts. I'm beginning to think this technique works very often at higher levels regardless of how lousy your starting point is (within reason).

[Jaybe]

Theseus, what's your "great idea?"
-Arrian

Originally posted by Theseus
Not yet, not yet.

Is it "yet" yet, Theseus??

[Cort Haus]

Just tried a close-packed start - on a tiny map. Built the second city 3 squares south, and the Russians turn up & declare war.

Why? I wonder. A few turns later I trade for Iron working from the English, and there's the Iron next to my second city. So the AI will start a war within 20 turns for a resource 3 squares from my own capital that neither of us could yet see. Hmmm, I hate that AI resource cheat

[Theseus]

Jaybe,

I admitted the lack of great-idea-ness in the AU102 thread... the idea was to pack cities in at a 2-tile spread, and culture bomb with temples.

1. I didn't do it very well... Sir Ralph did.
2. It didn;t work.

Next.

[Arrian]

@ Theseus. I've had my share of not-so-great ideas too. And some shockingly stupid omissions (failure to build an explorer wall in AU102).

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Hey Arrian... I've got a quiet night at home too.

Yeah, it was a momentary flash of non-brilliance.

Your story was tragic though; I never got attacked even once, but I can feel the pain, definitely.

I thought AU102 was an interesting, albeit artificial, test. Some good lessons.

Are you gonna try MT V? You gotta at least check out the opening turn... Vel and the others created the Civ3 equivalent of the first scene of "Saving Private Ryan."

[star mouse]

Originally posted by Velociryx
If you want to excel, you need both. You need "killing fields" of lossa little towns that exist for four reasons: Temple, Barracks, Library and Troops. The two cultural builds will ensure that they're not easy flip targets, the barracks and troops are for obvious reasons.
-=Vel=-

And thus do small cities on Tundra terrain come into their own.

[ducki]

This thread's been dead a while, but I'm new, so I gotta throw in my own thought, newbie-tainted though it may be.


Take a look at our real world.
There are cultural, productive, and scientific powerhouses...often surrounded by "bedroom communities".
There are - all over - epicenters that grow to massive size, often surrounded by suburbs for 50 miles or more...

...and odds are, they grew up much like some of you mentioned - as a bundle of smaller towns, that eventually "grew up".

It seems that a mixed approach would be more "natural" and organic, allowing for maximum flexibility, assuming you're willing to "delete" a town or two for the greater good, so to speak.

[King of Rasslin]

Yes, but you have to balance placing cities close with competing for resources. First, the major cities are founded, then you have to fill in what is left. I have seen the AI do this, especially Babylon. They placed a city only 5 or 6 spaces from my capitol, but my culture actually was higher, and it eventually flipped to me. In the industrial era, I found that the city was founded on coal.

Although you can't see all resources like the AI can, you should still try to establish a border first. Just make sure you keep it well defended.