Should Germany be forced to change its national anthem? - Page 2

BeBro · July 1, 2002, 08:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Zopperoni
They don't have to change it into something new, just play it faster

Do you mean it sounds better then, or is it just to end it sooner?

Roland · July 1, 2002, 08:03

The original is "Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser" by Haydn, around 1800.
Essentially the austrian version of "God save the King/Queen".

Then Fallersleben came around and stole the song.

ZoboZeWarrior · July 1, 2002, 08:04

Quote:

Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior
You're right. Evil come never directly from deutschland. But Evil come indirectly from Germany through Belgium ...
That always been like that !

Raaaahh ... Some people are real sissie touchy guy around here ...

I was refering to the french army who two time waited german assault at the wrong location ...

Roland · July 1, 2002, 08:04

"It was originally composed for a military band in 1832."

??

"The words only came in 1922."

The words were written by Fallersleben in the 1840s. In 1922 it became the official anthem.

ZoboZeWarrior · July 1, 2002, 08:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Victor Galis
-Because France spent all of it's luck and destiny getting Napoleon, and now it is saving up for another great leader at some point down the line

We lost a lot of our destiny points when some ******* burnt Jeanne La Pucelle ...

Bastards, they killed Jeanne ...

Zopperoni · July 1, 2002, 08:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland
"It was originally composed for a military band in 1832."

??

"The words only came in 1922."

The words were written by Fallersleben in the 1840s. In 1922 it became the official anthem.

This is my source

Zopperoni · July 1, 2002, 08:11

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
Do you mean it sounds better then, or is it just to end it sooner?

I can't say if it would sound better, but at least it would be less boring a tune; pretty much the same goes for the Dutch, British, and French anthem.

Alex · July 1, 2002, 08:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Pius Popprasch
I'm missing the option that both are supposed to immediately change their national anthem.

Hey, our national anthem talks about flowers, woods, the sun, the sky and the sea. It is a very attractive anthem.

Besides, we're the winners. Let the losers change whatever they want.

Roland · July 1, 2002, 08:27

Oops, sorry.

It's a funny coincidence that Ebert made the song the german anthem in 1922....

Alex · July 1, 2002, 08:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse

What amazed me was it sounded like an orchestra on speed and it has words!!! The players were singing along.

Well, everybody seems to think that it should sound like samba...

Alex · July 1, 2002, 08:43

Brazil's national anthem was composed in 1831, when D. Pedro I, Brazil's first emperor, abdicated. (Funny, isn't it?)

The anthem was "revised" in 1922 and got the actual lyrics.

Boris Godunov · July 1, 2002, 09:08

Absolutely not.

AH, the tune was composed by Hadyn in the 18th century. The words were adapted to it in the 19th century. There is no real association between the anthem and Nazism. It happened to be the National Anthem already when Hitler came to power.

Every nation on earth would have to change its Anthem if we were to associate them with the inhumane actions of certain regimes of those nations, including Australia.

Germany's anthem is the best melody of any national anthem, and the current words are just as nationalist as any anthem out there. Not a thing wrong with it.

Victor Galis · July 1, 2002, 09:48

Quote:

Every nation on earth would have to change its Anthem if we were to associate them with the inhumane actions of certain regimes of those nations, including Australia.

-Umm... how does one associate Advance Australia Fair (that's the anthem right?) with anything inhumane.

Quote:

and the current words are just as nationalist as any anthem out there. Not a thing wrong with it.

-Yes, it is so nationalist to strive for unity, justice, and freedom

Now, La Marseillaise on the other hand... but that's why I love that song

Saint Marcus · July 1, 2002, 10:07

Austria:

Lyrics:

Land der Berge, Land der Ströme,
Land der Äcker, Land der Döme,
Land der Hämmer, zukunftsreich.
Heimat bist du grosser Söhne,
Volk begnadet für das Schöne,
Vielgerühmtes Österreich,
Vielgerühmtes Österreich!

Heiss umfehdet, wild umstritten,
Liegst dem Erdteil du inmitten
Einem starken Herzen gleich.
Hast seit Frühen Ahnentagen
Hoher Sendung last getragen,
Vielgeprüftes Österreich, Vielgeprüftes Österreich.

Mutig in die neuen Zeiten,
Frei und gläubig sieh uns schreiten,
Arbeitsfroh und hoffnungsreich.
Einig lass in Brüderchören,
Vaterland, dir Treue schwören,
Vielgeliebtes Österreich, Vielgeliebtes Österreich.

Translation:

Land of mountains, land of rivers,
Land of fields, land of spires,
Land of hammers, with a rich future,
You are the home of great sons,
A nation blessed by its sense of beauty,
Highly praised Austria, highly praised Austria.

Strongly fought for, fiercely contested,
You are in the centre of the Continent
Like a strong heart,
You have born since the earliest days
The burden of a high mission
Much tried Austria, much tried Austria.

Watch us striding free and believing,
With courage, into new eras,
Working cheerfully and full of hope,
In fraternal chorus let us take in unity
The oath of allegiance to you, our country,
Our much beloved Austria, our much beloved Austria.

Germany:

Lyrics:

Deutschland, Deutschland ber alles,
šber alles in der Welt,
Wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze
Brderlich zusammenh„lt!
Von der Maas bis an die Memel,
Von der Etsch bis an den Belt:
Deutschland, Deutschland ber alles,
šber alles in der Welt!
Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang
Sollen in der Welt behalten
Ihren alten sch”nen Klang,
Uns zu edler Tat begeistern
Unser ganzes Leben lang:
Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang!
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
Fr das deutsche Vaterland!
Danach laát uns alle streben
Brderlich mit Herz und Hand!
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
Sind des Glckes Unterpfand;
Blh' im Glanze dieses Glckes,
Blhe, deutsches Vaterland.

Translation:

Germany, Germany over all
Over all the world
When Germany unites fraternally
In protection and defiance
From the Maas to the Memel,
From the Etsch to the Belt
Germany, Germany over all
Over all the world.
German women, German faithfulness,
German wine, and German song
Should retain their beautiful old sounds
In the world
And motivate us to noble deeds
Our whole life long.
German women, German faithfulness,
German wine, and German song!
Unity, rights, and freedom
For the German fatherland!
That is what we shall all strive for,
as brothers we are, with heart and hand.
Unity, rights, and freedom
Are our guarantee of happiness.
In the sunshine of this triad,
Thrive, our German Fatherland

BeBro · July 1, 2002, 10:14

We don´t use the first part anymore....

Victor Galis · July 1, 2002, 10:17

Except that the German anthem starts at the line about Unity, rights, and freedom.

DinoDoc · July 1, 2002, 10:19

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
We don´t use the first part anymore....

Too bad.

That's the best part.

BeBro · July 1, 2002, 10:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Except that the German anthem starts at the line about Unity, rights, and freedom.

Yup, that´s what I meant. So AHs thread title is pointless, because we already changed it

Roland · July 1, 2002, 10:24

The yanks can have the first verse. If you could handle the Umlaut in "ueber".

Dr Strangelove · July 1, 2002, 10:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland
The original is "Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser" by Haydn, around 1800.
Essentially the austrian version of "God save the King/Queen".

Then Fallersleben came around and stole the song.

Are you sure it wasn't originally written as a lullabye for the crown prince of Austria as a birthday present? I seem to recall that part of its history, and have heard a version played purportedly as it was originally meant to be - slowly and by a string quartet. Done that way its actually a sweet little tune.

Alexander's Horse · July 1, 2002, 10:25

Translation:

Germany, Germany over all
Over all the world
When Germany unites fraternally
In protection and defiance
From the Maas to the Memel,
From the Etsch to the Belt
Germany, Germany over all
Over all the world.
German women, German faithfulness,
German wine, and German song
German concentration camps, German tanks
We'll rule the world before too long!

German women, German faithfulness,
German wine, and German song!
Unity, rights, and freedom
For the German fatherland!
That is what we shall all strive for,
as brothers we are, with heart and hand.
Unity, rights, and freedom
Are our guarantee of happiness.
In the sunshine of this triad,
Thrive, our German Fatherland [/QUOTE]

BeBro · July 1, 2002, 10:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Translation:

Germany, Germany over all
Over all the world
When Germany unites fraternally
In protection and defiance
From the Maas to the Memel,
From the Etsch to the Belt
Germany, Germany over all
Over all the world.
German women, German faithfulness,
German wine, and German song
German concentration camps, German tanks
We'll rule the world before too long!

German women, German faithfulness,
German wine, and German song!
Unity, rights, and freedom
For the German fatherland!
That is what we shall all strive for,
as brothers we are, with heart and hand.
Unity, rights, and freedom
Are our guarantee of happiness.
In the sunshine of this triad,
Thrive, our German Fatherland

[/QUOTE]

These are the changes you propose?

Roland · July 1, 2002, 10:29

"Are you sure it wasn't originally written as a lullabye for the crown prince of Austria as a birthday present?"

I've read that it was written to shore up patriotism in the face of old Napsi. Not quite the Marsaillaise though....

Would make a nice lullabye anyway....

Sava · July 1, 2002, 10:29

You'd think after two world wars that we'd know better than to want to go to war with Germany. I mean, come on, lets invade a country with good looking women. But I guess that's mean. German women need "liberating" too I guess.

Boris Godunov · July 1, 2002, 11:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Victor Galis
-Umm... how does one associate Advance Australia Fair (that's the anthem right?) with anything inhumane.

No more so than you can associate the current German anthem with anything inhumane, which was my point.

Quote:

-Yes, it is so nationalist to strive for unity, justice, and freedom

Now, La Marseillaise on the other hand... but that's why I love that song

Um...this was exactly the point I was making. It's no longer an ultra-nationalist anthem, since they removed the first verse. The Anthem as it stands is about liberty, justice, etc.

Do you just argue with me for arguments sake, considering you didn't actually argue against the points I was making?

Victor Galis · July 1, 2002, 11:45

Quote:

No more so than you can associate the current German anthem with anything inhumane, which was my point.

-Which was my earlier point.

Quote:

Do you just argue with me for arguments sake, considering you didn't actually argue against the points I was making?

-It would be a very boring discussion if I didn't argue, now wouldn't it

Don't mind me, I'm just sleep deprived.

Boris Godunov · July 1, 2002, 12:04

I feel a bout of Monty P's "Argument Clinic" sketch coming on...

Wernazuma III · July 1, 2002, 14:04

I voted for "yes, bananatune". I think they should get their own anthem and give us our anthem back.

AH: The anthem is from early 19th century and from Austria, and the tune is not more militaristic than other anthems. And the German text is definitely not more warlike/unfriendly than the French anthem ("Formez vos bataillons"

) or Britain's "knavish tricks" to "confuse their politics"...

Boris Godunov · July 1, 2002, 14:15

18th Century, Wernazuma. Hadyn wrote it in the late 1700s. And it wasn't meant as an Austrian tune, it was meant for the German people as a whole. Since Germany is now the standard-bearer of the Germans (and many Austrians will bristle at being associated with Germans), I think their use of the melody is perfectly fine.

Victor Galis · July 1, 2002, 15:09

Quote:

("Formez vos bataillons" )

-That's harmless, compared to say, "Q'un sang impur abbreuve nos sillions!" Yeah, not militaristic at all