New world map - Page 2

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 19:08

Its not the default game, or Cradle 1.3, or WaW.

HuangShang · July 18, 2002, 19:11

if its not the default, then that rules out Apolyton too right????

if so, it leaves MM2

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 19:15

No, that doesn't rule out Apolyton unfortunately, and it could be a more recent version of Cradle. And MM2 also.

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 19:27

Thanks for trying, Ben...

Since the first map was for SAP, it would make sense that this one is too, but it would be nice if someone could confirm it...

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 19:42

yep, SAP.

Britain is a fairly respectable 22 tiles btw, as an estimate of size...

Locutus · July 18, 2002, 20:04

Okay, thanks Ben

Back to the news room it is...

Edit: then again, I'll probably a couple of more hours, since I just posted the MP Tournament news item and want maximum exposure for that...

Immortal Wombat · July 18, 2002, 20:29

good plan. btw: 86 downloads

That's not too shabby in just a fortnight.

child of Thor · July 19, 2002, 10:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
yep, SAP.

Britain is a fairly respectable 22 tiles btw, as an estimate of size...

the map is BIG! I like it - at least it's possible to play as the british now and have a chance at winning. Just hope my PC can cope when i try it - what sort of system would be ok to run it on?(I'm using a PII550 with 128MB)

Locutus · July 19, 2002, 11:04

Yes, almost 90 downloads now, I wonder where the hell all those came from. Most files are lucky to get 30 downloads in the first month... Oddly enough the MM2 version only has 9 downloads and the other ones even less

I wonder how well a Cradle version would fare...

Yes, CoT, 400x400 is *huge*. In the early game your PII550 will certainly be able to handle it, in the later game I wouldn't know. With only 128MB RAM I would guess it would have to use the HDD a lot towards the end, that would slow things down considerably. With double the memory I think you would get quite far without serious delays but that also depends on the specifics of your PC: what OS, what BIOS settings, what processes are running in the background, specs of Mob/cache/bus, etc. The only way to find out for a specific system is by experiment...

Immortal Wombat · July 19, 2002, 15:39

um... both the original map and the "smaller" map are the same. Both are Omni's 400*400 world map. The only way the second is smaller is that it has no scenicon.tga file.

The second also lets you choose any civ, and a game of 3-8 civs, the first lets you choose from a list of 12 or so.

But yeah, 400*400 is huge. Make a nice Indonesian civ there, New Guinea is enormous!

Locutus · July 19, 2002, 17:29

Hmmm... I had noticed the original map didn't let you specify all civs. Odd... I think I'll wait until ískallin comes back to sort things out before I post more news on this...

HuangShang · July 19, 2002, 20:28

and (for me at least) the other 2 cantgo past 8 civs b/c the civ # message pops up...

child of Thor · July 20, 2002, 16:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
But yeah, 400*400 is huge. Make a nice Indonesian civ there, New Guinea is enormous!

PNG is the largest Island nation landwise in the world, good people too

I'd like to do it the other way around and make Indonesia part of a great Papuan civ!

Locutus · July 20, 2002, 19:28

Quote:

Originally posted by child of Thor

PNG is the largest Island nation landwise in the world, good people too

I'd like to do it the other way around and make Indonesia part of a great Papuan civ!

Ain't that Greenland?

Anyway, that region is always a bit of a problem: any Indonesian civ really ought to start on Java (the only island that was really significant throughout history (both colonial and pre-colonial)), any Polynesian civ ought to start further east (on Samoa or possibly New Zealand) and a Papuan or other civ from that region would really only be a place filler, they can't really be considered a great civilization. That leaves major islands such as Borneo, PNG and Sumatra empty, which is a pity...

child of Thor · July 22, 2002, 14:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus

Ain't that Greenland?

well yeah it is big, but what kind of population does it have? I've never met anyone from Greenland, and isn't it just an annex of U.S. or Canada?
Anyway I read the the PNG claim somewhere......
Well the polynesian people did originate in south east asia and spread to settle all across the pacific.They are a distinct group from the Asians and as such left us easter islands monuments(which admittedly is about it in terms of 'wonders').They were exceptional sailors and traders and for thousands of years travelled some of the largest stretches of sea in simple canoes, carrying livestock and food with them as they searched for new islands to settle.I guess they are really the only 'achepiligo' civ that colonised large area's. That's got to be worth something?
Anyway CTP2 will give me the chance with this new map to re-write history a little - beware Indonesians, Papua shall arise

J Bytheway · July 22, 2002, 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by child of Thor
well yeah it is big, but what kind of population does it have? I've never met anyone from Greenland, and isn't it just an annex of U.S. or Canada?

Of Denmark, I thought. Which makes Denmark one of the largest countries in the world, I suppose... Though Greenland is not nearly as large as it looks on most maps.

I would say the largest island nation is Australia, but we all have different definitions of 'island' (mine being a land mass all of one country - and under that definition PNG is actually not an island, so perhaps it needs revision).

Locutus · July 23, 2002, 08:36

Well, I don't know about population, I would estimate that Great Britain or Japan is the biggest in this category. Greenland has maybe a few hundred thousand inhabitants (wild guess), but when it comes to geographic size, I'm pretty sure it is the biggest island in the world... And yes, it's an automomous part of Denmark. If it were counted as part of Denmark (which it usually isn't), I think it would place Denmark somewhere near the bottom of the top 15 largest countries in the world (I remember reading somewhere that Greenland is smaller than Congo (former Zaire, this country lies on the equator and appears much smaller on a world map), and I'm quite sure Congo isn't in the top 10).

As far as a civ goes, I think Polynesia *does* deserve to get it's own civ (although it's 'edgy'), but Polynesia is still located a few thousand kilometres east of Papua (in between lie Micronesia and some other island groups which are both culturally and geographically distinctly different)...

ískallin · July 23, 2002, 15:19

I have just arrived from the national jamboree of iceland and a weak of hiking is a wery fun one

PS there do live 40000 souls on Greenland.

PSS The Scotts were funny in ther skirts

Locutus · July 23, 2002, 15:26

Good to hear you had a good time...

Only 40,000

Anyway, could you sort out your maps, ískallin? Apparently not all of them are what you said they would be (haven't tested all of them myself yet though, so I can't confirm). Quite annoying if I want to make news items about them or add them to the database...

HuangShang · July 23, 2002, 20:33

What about the small map

ískallin · July 24, 2002, 05:08

for SAP

so has anyone had a good time in those maps?

Locutus · July 24, 2002, 07:34

Okay, because there is so much confusion, I decided to go figure it out myself. There are 4 files in this thread. In the order in which they have been posted these are the following:

1) Super Apolyton Pack Map: mapsize 224x209, a full scenario, meaning that there are 16 settlers on the map even before the game starts, you can choose from 1 of 16 different civs, all 16 will play in the game.

2) MedMod2 Map: mapsize 199x399; nation flags placed, meaning that for every civ there is a marker on the map with a starting locaiton: if that civ plays, it will start on this location; all 42 civs playable, you can choose the number of opponents.

3) World at War Map: see MM2: mapsize 199x399; nation flags placed, all 41(?) civs playable, you can choose the number of opponents.

4) Small Super Apolyton Pack Map: mapsize 224x209; nation flags placed, all 44 civs playable, you can choose the number of opponents.

So everything seems to check out except that the orignal file that was posted has a smaller map than it should have and it doesn't have all civs playable. Also, it would seem to me that the Small map is too wide: it should be about 110x210, not the 225x210 that it currently is.

I hope this clears up the confusion for everyone, and I hope ískallin can fix the first map that was posted, and possibly adjust the size of the small map.

Contents-wise, I had a good look at the starting locations and I must say that overall they look pretty good. A couple of suggestions though (just suggestions, see if you want to do anything with them). Note that some of these apply to every map (except the original one with the 16 settlers), some nations only exist in one or two:

- The Nigerians shouldn't start in the middle of the Sahara, that's (1) not good for gameplay and (2) not historically accurate. They should start much further south-west, near the Niger river (hence the name

), in present day western Nigeria/Benin (their capital isn't called Benin by accident, you know

).

- Polynesia is located on the maps where in the real world Micronesia is located. These are two distinctly different cultures, you may want to consider moving the Polynesians much further south and if possible further west as well (unless you placed them there for gamebalance reasons or anything).

- The Thai should start in Thailand, not in Northern Vietnam. Somewhat further to the south-west, in real history their 'starting location' was on a straight line north of Bangkok and on a straight line east of Rangoon.

- On all these maps the Chinese start north of Vladivostok, Russia, nowhere near their historic location. Their capipal of Beijing today lies roughly on the same height as Seoul and Tokyo, but their origin is in the Yangtse river valley, much further south. Either way, they should start much further south-west than where they are now.

- the Aztec start in the Middle of Mayaland on your MM2 map; in reality their capital was where Mexico City is today and they originally cam from someplace north of this city. Either way, much further north than where they are now.

- Bantu: perhaps the Bantu should start further to the west, that gives them a better starting position and puts them closer to their historic starting location (which was in eastern Nigeria/Cameroon).

But as I said, overall it looks pretty good...

HuangShang · July 24, 2002, 12:41

The Chinese should Start in NanJing (hint: it translates to SouthernCapitol)...

BeiJing (the north one) on the other hand was found (or started being called that) after the birth of Christ... a little late

Also its a real pain that the Thai start in Vietnam

Also if they incuded Mongolia and all the other Euros, why not include those nations of the once undivided China... Like the Man People you all call Manchurians, not just the Han and Mungu...
believe me their are more "peoples" in The Central Empire than europe + N Africa + Middle East + the rest of Russia...

Just to let you know...
After all I am their Divine Emperor...

HuangShang · July 24, 2002, 12:44

Oh.. and great work so far

ískallin · July 24, 2002, 13:56

fix those right away. I weren't sure on this wery starting locations

J Bytheway · July 24, 2002, 18:05

Quote:

Originally posted by HuangShang
Also if they incuded Mongolia and all the other Euros...

Are you saying Mongolia is European?

HuangShang · July 24, 2002, 19:27

NNOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when i said "and all the other Euros" i meant all the european countries/peoples the included... only 4 out of like 50 (something like that) E Asian peoples are included if they have Korea

Colwyn · July 29, 2002, 01:57

On isk's small world map for SAP2

I edit userprofile to be 16 run CTP2 load scenario and when # of players is asked 1-8 its already on 8 and I click ok, the game starts with only 9 players.

How do I get around this??

J Bytheway · July 29, 2002, 07:50

You could try write-protecting userprofile.txt, but I doubt it would work.

Martin Gühmann · July 29, 2002, 11:20

Quote:

Originally posted by J Bytheway
You could try write-protecting userprofile.txt, but I doubt it would work.

It doesn't work the eight opponents are in the memory and not in the userprofile.txt, the problem here is that this a scenario with given start positions, in this case you can only play with a maximum number of seven opponents + the Barbarians and yourself.

You can only play scenarios (that are premade maps, too) if you put the settlers on the map instead of start positions, the disadvantage of this method is that not every Civ is playable and the number of players is given. The sollution here would be to make a version with settlers on the map and maybe 14 up to 16 civs or ask ískallin.

-Martin