The Presidency of Apolytonia (Campaign Thread) - Page 4

FrostyBoy · July 8, 2002, 22:41

Hm..

Are the ministers the experts, or the citizens? Will either of you go weak because the citizens disagree with what ministers are advising?

Ninot · July 8, 2002, 22:43

Quote:

Do you support building up for a war aginst France immediately after the war with America? What do you prepose we do with the defeated Americans? (this may already have been asked, I havent read every post )

This is a question to be answered after our war with USA be done. Personnaly, I would have us completely rid of the Americans. I think it was Uber who put it best, we need that land, and pretty bad too. Even a vasal state would be a pain, thus I would like to stay in the tech race another way, but if it is neccesary.....

But once that war is done, I suggest we take a second look at the world, and not instantly barrel towards war with another nation.

Quote:

So I ask the candidates, if your SMC firmly opposed a warplan that you back, would you give him direction of the field, or insist on ramming through ... oh, lets say, purely hypothetically ( ), Plan Eagle.

If such an impasse came up, I would do exactly what I did last night with Trips insistance on a sneak attack, I would put it to an official poll. The people would decide who has the better idea, and that would be the decision maker.

Quote:

Following that up: Should the SMC choose to ignore the people, would you disregaurd his orders to proceed with whatever you deemed right?

If the SMC was bullheaded enough to completely disreguard the will of the nation and request everything go his way, I would immediately request his impeachment for disservice to his nation. If he refuses to abide by an official poll, that WOULD be the only way to go.

Quote:

Another follow up: Is there a % majority that will cause you to ignore the SMC, or is 50.1% enough? Clarify the EXACT circumstance that it would be acceptable to disobey ANY Minister, now that we really get into it.

This is a good question. If it were any less than a 66% decision, I would allow the SMC (or any other minister) liberties. 50%+1 is not decisive enough to form a firm decision. In such a case, for whichever minister it would apply to, I would completly allow them to make their own decisions.

Ninot · July 8, 2002, 22:46

Quote:

Are the ministers the experts, or the citizens? Will either of you go weak because the citizens disagree with what ministers are advising?

The Ministers would be democractically elected by the people. Their decisions WOULD matter. However, the same people who democractically elected them have every right to have their will performed. If they should decide that the minister they voted in is no longer performing their will, than who am I to argue?

But in all reality, unless two candidates to a job are identical, how easy will it be to have a minister who is not performing the will of the people? 1: it doesnt make sense, 2: it doesnt make political sense if the minister wants to be reelected to anything. And if they do a good job despite their defiance? well that would mean shambles to this democractic system, because that would mean ministers would much less listen to the peoples voices.

Jon Shafer · July 8, 2002, 22:51

In some cases, people become elected to positions unopposed. Does that mean that they're experts? No, it means they ran for office. This is the people's game, not the ministers. It is both the ministers and the President/VPs job to represent them, not to make decisions based upon what they feel is right. It's their job to try to convince the public why their way is the right way. If the public is convinced, then there isn't a problem. If it's not then that shouldn't be the task that is taken. I feel that if aroudn 60% or greater of the people officially disagree (through a poll) with the course of action a minister wants to take, then it's my job to go with the will of the people.

ThePlagueRat · July 9, 2002, 09:55

I think Trip will get my vote, once again... maybe?
If only he could stop agitating for this US-like "democracy" !
(I'd rather see it done in an ancient Greek manner)

Well, I've got a question for you both:
- Should we start building libraries or temples after the coming war?

Jon Shafer · July 9, 2002, 10:01

Quote:

Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
I think Trip will get my vote, once again... maybe?
If only he could stop agitating for this US-like "democracy" !
(I'd rather see it done in an ancient Greek manner)

I'm just relating to something that works (almost

). That doesn't mean I want things exactly the same way, I'm just using it as a guide, since we can look at it and know everything about it (not always the case for Greece or Rome), and how well it works.

P.S. Thanks for the vote... maybe.

Quote:

Well, I've got a question for you both:
- Should we start building libraries or temples after the coming war?

Definitely temples. They will allow us to expand earlier (fewer shields), as well as to make more happy people (without a larger garrison). This will help our science more than libraries can at this point.

Libraries = the most effective under Republic with a lot of Marketplaces.

UnOrthOdOx · July 9, 2002, 10:08

I skimmed over everything and didn't notice this question, so if I missed it, I apologize.

Ninot, since we are all VERY aware of Trip's feelings on this issue, what are your feelings toward Plan Eagle? And would you rather destroy or trim America?

Sheik · July 9, 2002, 11:12

This is more of question for Ninot because Trip has already made his views clear on this issue.

How do you feel about the Judicial System? If elected will you work to get this ammendment written up and added to the constitution?

MrWhereItsAt · July 9, 2002, 11:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain

OTOH, if the new election amendment passes, Trip will not be able to run for President again after this one so the 3rd election will be between two (or more) new Presidential candidates.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amendment states that one person may only hold office two times consecutively, thus if Ninot wins this time around, both Ninot and Trip would be able to run next time. If not and somehow neither can run then, I ask you how long would it be before we run out of candidates? Those (like me) who can't easily make turnchats, or do not have webpages to update etc?

UnOrthOdOx · July 9, 2002, 11:28

MrWIA brings up an interesting point. Are we to now REQUIRE the Pres to make and update a webpage? This could seriously limit our prospective candidates.

I think Captain was referring to if Trip wins, the amandment passes, he would not be allowed to run again, so we would have two candidates who are unproven at president.

MrWhereItsAt · July 9, 2002, 11:32

Gracias, UnOrthOdOx. This clarifies things (if this is what was meant). We may have multiple candidates now, but soon enough we will not, and we cannot limit those candidates who CAN run for positions like the Presdency.

Jon Shafer · July 9, 2002, 11:37

Phew, 100 replies.

I'm working something out with Sn00py and Gramphos to create an 'official' website. The President and Ministers will only be required to submit text and pictures (to help illustrate what they're describing), while the 'webmaster' will update the site and all that kind of fun stuff.

[EDIT]I need to practice my grammar.

[/EDIT]

UnOrthOdOx · July 9, 2002, 12:48

It was turning into a campaign issue, that is why I brought it up. A general website would be best.

Jon Shafer · July 9, 2002, 13:15

Quote:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
It was turning into a campaign issue, that is why I brought it up. A general website would be best.

Trying to work out a deal with Sn00ps, Gramps and Dan right now.

GodKing · July 9, 2002, 13:47

Cool. How do you propose to have the site maintained? By a historian type of position, by the prez, by Dan, gramphos & whomever they decide? I do understand that much would depend on how it was set up initially, which hasn't yet happened.... Just kinda curious I guess. I do like the idea.

Jon Shafer · July 9, 2002, 13:55

No plans on that, as of now. Currently, I think whoever wants to maintain the site, and can prove they have the ability to do so should be able to work with it. Sn00ps came up with an awesome scheme (in 5 minutes, damn him!), so I think he may be the official torch-bearer at the moment.

FrostyBoy · July 9, 2002, 19:32

I can do it, all the president needs to do is email me the screenshots and new report

FrostyBoy · July 9, 2002, 19:34

or I can do the screenshots

Ninot · July 9, 2002, 19:40

Quote:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I skimmed over everything and didn't notice this question, so if I missed it, I apologize.

Ninot, since we are all VERY aware of Trip's feelings on this issue, what are your feelings toward Plan Eagle? And would you rather destroy or trim America?

I want America destroyed.

Plan Eagle seems good. Just as long as the sneak attack element is left out (as has been voted democractically)

Quote:

How do you feel about the Judicial System? If elected will you work to get this ammendment written up and added to the constitution?

I would most definately get a Judicial system working. This type of institution could be a great help to nullifying mutiple polls on the same issue, and repolling when a result is undesirebable.

Ninot · July 9, 2002, 19:42

Oh, and Sn00py's help with a webpage and/or screenshots would always be delightful.

But on the same topic, but still not on the same topic.

We need a national website. What we have currently (to my knowledge) is a simple report with maps, and plans for war.
If I should be elected, with Sn00py's help or on my own, I would plan to have an all inclusive website, with pages dedicated to every ministry with information enough to make pages for, and such other important informations as the constitution, election records...

A website for this nation can be QUITE big and a one stop site for anything anyone could ever want. That is what I plan to direct it towards if I am elected.

notyoueither · July 10, 2002, 00:36

Wouldn't it be cool if it were hosted on Poly?

Ninot · July 10, 2002, 10:21

that would be quite cool, and convenient.

But despite where it is hosted, if any website is to be convenient, we would need a nice large and beautiful link to it at the top of the forum. That way, no one need go looking in threads for the adress.

but is that even possible?

Togas · July 10, 2002, 20:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot
And yes, I'm caught there as well I guess. Im applying myself to this candidacy because my party needed representation.

And while i can be said to have pants of fire for changing my mind about running for FAM again (which, even though I am very confident in both candidates for that job, I would still love to hold that job), I found it more imperative that the role of President be put to some competition. Even if I put myself to shame and get minimal votes in an election here, atleast my challenges to Trip might put him harder to work in the second term.

Hrm...

I certainly hope that Ninot's campaigning puts enough pressure on Trip to make his 2nd term as postive as (or more positive than) the last one. That'll make this all worthwhile.

SOMEONE had to run against Trip, I suppose, to keep things interesting, but no one has yet said that Trip has done a bad job as President.

While some may be saying "why not give Ninot a chance?" I don't believe that is a good reason to elect someone. We ought to consider our candidates based on who will do the best job for the nation.

I'm dissapointed that Ninot, who wanted to remain FAM as an independent, suddenly decided to run as President because his "party needed representation". That's a lousy reason.

Politics...

--Togas

Ninot · July 10, 2002, 22:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Togas

Hrm...

I certainly hope that Ninot's campaigning puts enough pressure on Trip to make his 2nd term as postive as (or more positive than) the last one. That'll make this all worthwhile.

SOMEONE had to run against Trip, I suppose, to keep things interesting, but no one has yet said that Trip has done a bad job as President.

While some may be saying "why not give Ninot a chance?" I don't believe that is a good reason to elect someone. We ought to consider our candidates based on who will do the best job for the nation.

I'm dissapointed that Ninot, who wanted to remain FAM as an independent, suddenly decided to run as President because his "party needed representation". That's a lousy reason.

Politics...

--Togas

I sincerely do not care if you yourself are dissapointed in what I am doing. I am more concerned that these jobs get done right. Just because I decided I wanted a job change does not make a lousy reason for running.
I have explained that I dislike party politics, and would rather everyone be independants. I have never stated I myself am an independant.

Quote:

who wanted to remain FAM as an independent

Yeah, I stated I wanted to stay as FAM.. but i NEVER once stated I would do so as IND. I have never relinquished my links with DIA. To think so would be to imagine.

And, when I decided to finnaly run for this position, it was after i took a week off, came back, and found two, VERY competent members running for FAM already. Knowing that If I gave Trip a run for his money might be more productive than running against two guys I knew would do the job probably as good as me, I decided to give people a choice for presidency, rather than a three way choice for FAM.

Togas, while some of your comments are intelligent, the others are quite dumb and insulting. Your input is appreciated, however I would appreciate little fantasies of facts not be thrown in, and I would most definately appreciate that my reasons for running for this job not be analysed.

I could state any of many reasons I please for running for this position. It is not anyones job to choose any single one of those reasons and state it is not worthy.

And I can see that you skipped by my very first campaign post requesting none of this flaming be put in.

UnOrthOdOx · July 10, 2002, 22:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot

Yeah, I stated I wanted to stay as FAM.. but i NEVER once stated I would do so as IND. I have never relinquished my links with DIA. To think so would be to imagine.

"I like the fact that I will run again for Foreign Minister under the name Ninot, and not under a general banner of DIA. "

Not exactly independant, but surely not AS a DIA member? I can see where that was easily confused.

Quote:

Togas, while some of your comments are intelligent, the others are quite dumb and insulting. Your input is appreciated, however I would appreciate little fantasies of facts not be thrown in, and I would most definately appreciate that my reasons for running for this job not be analysed.

I could state any of many reasons I please for running for this position. It is not anyones job to choose any single one of those reasons and state it is not worthy.

And I can see that you skipped by my very first campaign post requesting none of this flaming be put in.

Hmm, seems you can flame as well. Shall I grab a banana and declare this a cookout?

Touchy tonight? I stated nearly the same a while back, actually, and you took it in stride. OK, I may have been more diplomatic about it.

Ninot · July 11, 2002, 01:39

Well, I took more specific offence from Togas because in my last campaign, he came out and called me a.. what was it, bedwetting good-fornothing peacenik? something like that.

we have a history

Ninot · July 11, 2002, 01:45

Quote:

"I like the fact that I will run again for Foreign Minister under the name Ninot, and not under a general banner of DIA. "

By this statement, i most specifically ment that I will be running first and foremost as a single individual, rather than a guy who stands for everything the DIA stands for.

What I intended was that if anyone was voting for me, they would be voting for a name, rather than a party. That doesnt remove me from the party tho.

Ninot · July 11, 2002, 01:54

Quote:

Ninot clearly hasn't played this game enough to understand the fundamentals of actual Foreign Affairs in Civ III, as opposed to the real world. The other civs will not "respect" us. They will measure us by the numbers of our military and the value of our culture, and by how often we have broken a treaty.

It's simple. Ninot writes real well and he can obviously shmooze with the best of the politicians, but he's a gutless pacifist.

This was words Togas had for me in his last campaign. If you wanna check out the full extent of his comments, just check out the old foreign affairs campaign thread

His history of comments towards me, and his attitude for that matter, have been much less than flattering. I admitt we mutually got into a flame war in that thread, but my efforts to end the flame war went very well into his plans to flame me more. I don't take much he has to say directly about me seriously any more.

Jon Shafer · July 11, 2002, 02:33

Come on guys, no need to bring up and say this kind of stuff, it doesn't make anyone look good, trust me.

Anyways. *Cracks his knuckles*
Only a day and a half until the election. I feel this campaign has been smear-less compared with many others, so may the election itself go the same way.

Ninney, good luck, I salute you!

Timeline · July 11, 2002, 06:30

Good luck Trip, you'll need it.