Thread Tools
Old July 7, 2002, 15:04   #1
techumseh
Civilization II PBEMScenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
techumseh's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: of the frozen North.
Posts: 4,197
Unsolved Mysteries of Civ2
This is a thread dedicated to the great unsolved mysteries of Civ2. If you have one, post it here. If you have the answer, here is where you can reveal the secret.

My contribution: I've always wondered, when setting the special rules for a scenario, what does 'Special WWII-only AI' actually do?
techumseh is offline  
Old July 7, 2002, 16:27   #2
Mr. Oobir
Warlord
 
Mr. Oobir's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 107
A related question: Why didn't they take that option out before they shipped the game?
Mr. Oobir is offline  
Old July 7, 2002, 16:58   #3
rmsharpe
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
Prince
 
rmsharpe's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 610
What were they going to use Plumbing for?
__________________
-rmsharpe
rmsharpe is offline  
Old July 7, 2002, 18:06   #4
The ANZAC
Civilization II PBEMCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
The ANZAC's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Rodina!
Posts: 2,334
My question: What are the Arabs and Incas doing in the rules.txt and were they going to be implemented.

Techumseh: The WW2 AI has something to do with the WW2 scenario that came with Civ2 and ensured some status of treaties. If you engage it in a normal scenario, you'll probably crash it
__________________
Georgi Nikolai Anzyakov, Commander Grand Northern Front, Red Front Democracy Game
The ANZAC is offline  
Old July 7, 2002, 18:49   #5
St Leo
Scenario League / Civ2-CreationApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
St Leo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
I've always wondered, when setting the special rules for a scenario, what does 'Special WWII-only AI' actually do?

It makes the Axis tribe stay at war with the Allied tribe

What were they going to use Plumbing for?

The Aqueduct.

What are the Arabs and Incas doing in the rules.txt and were they going to be implemented.

They are spares that will work if you sub them in for an existing tribe because they also have definitions in city.txt.
__________________
Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com
St Leo is offline  
Old July 7, 2002, 19:17   #6
Case
Civilization II PBEMCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
Case's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,057
How much money did Microprose really make as a result of their decision to chop the MP code out of Civ 2 before it was released?
__________________
'Arguing with anonymous strangers on the internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable from - self-righteous sixteen year olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.'
- Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
Case is offline  
Old July 7, 2002, 19:37   #7
WarVoid
King
 
WarVoid's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Scenario League
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally posted by Case
How much money did Microprose really make as a result of their decision to chop the MP code out of Civ 2 before it was released?
A sh!tload.
__________________
The Arabic CivII Site
WarVoid is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 03:54   #8
Imperial-Markus
Chieftain
 
Imperial-Markus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 69
When you conquer a city which has only one inhabitant left it usually gets destroyed but in my last game I captured three cities with only one citizen left but all of them stayed? So my question is: Does anybody know when a city with 1 person left get destroyed by conquering and when not?
__________________
When you want to dance do it the trance way
Imperial-Markus is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 10:08   #9
techumseh
Civilization II PBEMScenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
techumseh's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: of the frozen North.
Posts: 4,197
If it has city walls?
techumseh is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 12:16   #10
Imperial-Markus
Chieftain
 
Imperial-Markus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 69
Hmmm that might be the trick but sometimes when I take a city the walls get destroyed and the city also. Do the computer choose randomly which improvements get destroyed?
__________________
When you want to dance do it the trance way
Imperial-Markus is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 12:31   #11
Marquis de Sodaq
King
 
Marquis de Sodaq's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: ... no, a Marquis.
Posts: 2,179
Quote:
Originally posted by Imperial-Markus
Hmmm that might be the trick but sometimes when I take a city the walls get destroyed and the city also. Do the computer choose randomly which improvements get destroyed?
No - SlowThinker tested and found that improvements are clumped in 3 categories, one of which is destroyed upon sacking the city. I can't remember the details, you could search the archives of the CivII Strategy forum, tho...
__________________
The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)

The gift of speech is given to many,
intelligence to few.
Marquis de Sodaq is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 16:02   #12
techumseh
Civilization II PBEMScenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
techumseh's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: of the frozen North.
Posts: 4,197
OK, St. Leo - here's one for you. They say in the manual that you shouldn't use the WWII AI option because it will almost certainly make your game crash. Why is this so?
techumseh is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 16:20   #13
Mercator
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
Mercator's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 3,079
I've also wondered about that WWII AI thing, there must surely be a way that option can be put to good use in some scenario (apart from that WWII one).

I also just did a little testing with the size-1 cities... I tested it on Deity and Warlord level (using FW). Some with City Walls, some with a Wonder, some with a black citizen, some with a red one, a normal one or a happy one, with a courthouse, marketplace, temple and/or aquaduct. I also tried it with varying degrees of Food Storage. They all disappeared. These were by no means thorough tests, but if difficulty level, happiness, food storage or city improvements would be involved in whether a size-1 city remains or not, it would certainly only modify a random number.
__________________
Civilization II: maps, guides, links, scenarios, patches and utilities (+ Civ2Tech and CivEngineer)
Mercator is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 16:35   #14
DarthVeda
Emperor
 
DarthVeda's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 4,325
This is directly from the complete guide to scenario building:

Quote:
Special WWII Only AI

When the game manual says not to use this one, it's not kidding. You should pretend this option doesn't exist, because there's no way you can use it productively.

The WWII scenario was designed for the most part by a programmer. Unfortunately, in early versions of the scenario, the computer-controlled civilizations did not act like their historical counterparts. To overcome this failing ( and because he could), he wrote a specific set of instructions for the AI in that scenario. Those instructions cannot be applied to any other scenario, and Civilization II is likely to crash if you try it.
Remember, the ww2 scenario was designed before events files, and it probably stipulates that the German and Allied civs stay at war, and where the German civ should send its submarines (ie the atlantic rather than the baltic).
DarthVeda is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 20:30   #15
Panda
Prince
 
Local Time: 03:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Europe
Posts: 744
It would have been more useful if they'd detailed exactly what those instructions were instead of issuing dire warnings against trying it out. It certainly doesn't crash any scenario I've seen which had this flag enabled.
__________________
"I didn't invent these rules, I'm just going to use them against you."
Panda is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 20:54   #16
winterfritz
Prince
 
winterfritz's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: I'm sailing this thing to Mexico
Posts: 486
I thought the WW2-AI just made all the civs more warlike. I've enabled it in my Roman scenario in an attempt to make the German barbarians more aggressive; is this a bad thing?
winterfritz is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 22:40   #17
ravagon
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
Local Time: 11:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,515
I thought I read once that it tweaked the AI for the Atlantic battle ... ?

In any case, I've tried it out in other scenarios, just the playing around kind, and it never caused any crashes.
Whether or not it did, in fact, make a difference, I couldn't really tell. If there was any it was too small a change to reliably quantify.
ravagon is offline  
Old July 8, 2002, 23:38   #18
Mr. Oobir
Warlord
 
Mr. Oobir's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 107
Quote:
Originally posted by DarthVeda
Remember, the ww2 scenario was designed before events files, and it probably stipulates that the German and Allied civs stay at war, and where the German civ should send its submarines (ie the atlantic rather than the baltic).
I don't think the option did much about maintaning wars and alliances, because I distinctly remember playing as the French and being offered peace by the Germans on the first or second turn.
Mr. Oobir is offline  
Old July 9, 2002, 00:46   #19
DarthVeda
Emperor
 
DarthVeda's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 4,325
Yes and the Germans did eventually sue for peace with France.... (or at least the other way around )
DarthVeda is offline  
Old July 9, 2002, 10:28   #20
Jacobite1688
Spanish Civers
Prince
 
Jacobite1688's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago, IL U.S.A.
Posts: 300
I have played the WWII scenario MANY MANY times as every possible civ. I have my own set of custom graphics for it and everything. In my experience, even the Allies and the Axis will, sooner or later, offer or be offered peace, depending on their situations. Whatever the flag does, I don’t think it has anything to do with treaties.
Jacobite1688 is offline  
Old July 9, 2002, 16:05   #21
techumseh
Civilization II PBEMScenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
techumseh's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: of the frozen North.
Posts: 4,197
So! It is indeed....an Unsolved Mystery of Civ2!
techumseh is offline  
Old July 9, 2002, 16:28   #22
MagyarCrusader
Civilization II PBEM
Emperor
 
MagyarCrusader's Avatar
 
Local Time: 19:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Fascist
Posts: 3,161
About the WW2 AI dealy,
I can't remember where I read it, so I may remember it incorrectly, but it ensured the German AI would attack Amsterdam, and I'm sure it did other things too. So basically, Darth's explanation was correct.

About cities being destroyed when they are sized 1 and sometimes not...
I always thought that if you are the liberator of a city (as opposed to 'conquerer' when it displays the message that you've taken a city), and your enemy holds the city at 1 and you take it, it will not be destroyed.
__________________
Re-elect Bush!
MagyarCrusader is offline  
Old July 9, 2002, 17:11   #23
Imperial-Markus
Chieftain
 
Imperial-Markus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 69
Yeahh this is it. As you're said it I had a sudden notion that I lost these cities to the AI and recaptured it in the next turn. Think we can say: problem solved next one plz

Well to the "WW2 AI flag": I played this scen very often and I think every time the Axis captured Paris the French sued for peace (Ok this is due to the loss of the city) but also the allies immediately declared war to the French. So perhaps this flag has something to do with it so they wanted to recreate Vichy-France. As in my opinion otherwise it is impossible that two civs go to war at the same time every game. This could also be an explanation why we should not use this flag in scen building I think it is defined when especially the Allies will declare war on France and as in other scen are different civs this could cause the game to crash as the manual stated out.
__________________
When you want to dance do it the trance way
Imperial-Markus is offline  
Old July 9, 2002, 17:24   #24
Henrik
Civilization II PBEMScenario League / Civ2-CreationNationStatesMacCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontSpanish CiversCivilization IV Creators
Emperor
 
Henrik's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The European Union, Sweden, Lund
Posts: 3,682
The game never crashes when that flag is checked, as far as I can tell all it does is make the AI use marines more.
__________________
No Fighting here, this is the war room!
Henrik is offline  
Old July 9, 2002, 21:34   #25
Gothmog
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
Prince
 
Gothmog's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally posted by MagyarCrusader
About cities being destroyed when they are sized 1 and sometimes not...
I always thought that if you are the liberator of a city (as opposed to 'conquerer' when it displays the message that you've taken a city), and your enemy holds the city at 1 and you take it, it will not be destroyed.
This has been my theory all along. I wasn't sure whether it always happened that way or that the odds were improved. I'm happy to see someone confirm it.

In the save file, each city has two bits of information about ownership, current owner and previous owner. It uses that to pick between the conquered and liberated messages. One thing I have observed about that is that after some interval of time, the previous owner value becomes the same as the current owner even when ownership stays constant.
__________________
"Cease fire! Please! Cease fire. What a dreadful waste of ammunition!" -- General Horatio Herbert Kitchener
--
Gothmog is offline  
Old July 10, 2002, 11:05   #26
Thoddy
Warlord
 
Local Time: 04:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hannover, Germany
Posts: 227
Re: Unsolved Mysteries of Civ2
Quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
My contribution: I've always wondered, when setting the special rules for a scenario, what does 'Special WWII-only AI' actually do?
Axis civ gets the whole money of a civ from the first city they capture.
Thoddy is offline  
Old July 10, 2002, 13:51   #27
our_man
Civilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
Prince
 
our_man's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 522
I don't believe that's true Thoddy. I think any civilization can get all the money of a civ from the first city they capture if it is on the first turn of any scenario - just another quirky bugto add to the list.
our_man is offline  
Old July 10, 2002, 14:11   #28
Henrik
Civilization II PBEMScenario League / Civ2-CreationNationStatesMacCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontSpanish CiversCivilization IV Creators
Emperor
 
Henrik's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:56
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The European Union, Sweden, Lund
Posts: 3,682
In my experience thats true for all scenarios if the city is taken on the first turn.


EDIT: as our_man allready pointed out it seems
__________________
No Fighting here, this is the war room!
Henrik is offline  
Old July 11, 2002, 08:38   #29
Gothmog
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
Prince
 
Gothmog's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:56
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 421
That's my experience as well. (gettting all of a tribe's money).
__________________
"Cease fire! Please! Cease fire. What a dreadful waste of ammunition!" -- General Horatio Herbert Kitchener
--
Gothmog is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 23:56.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team