ship designs in mid and late game - Page 4

vmxa1 · November 15, 2002, 14:08

Quote:

Originally posted by bakalov
I would definitely take Mass Driver, Inertial Stabilizer & Class III. If you have Class III and inertial stabilizer you can rotate your ship during battle to take damage with all shields and it will be very difficult to kill. This is in addition to the defence boost. Pd AF Mass drivers can be used to kill missiles quite successfully too.
At least the early missiles :-) I always combine Hv + Pd; Another good use of Pd is when you see that you are winning and want to capture an enemy ship, you can fire on it only with the Pds and hope to immobilize it and board it instead of killing ....

All true and I often do just that. The one pick that is very hard to get for me is class III shields. I need that rad shield and will frequently take that instead and suffer the consequences. I will be able to live with out the Class III, but no rad shield means no farming on some planets.

bakalov · November 18, 2002, 04:56

There is always an option to get the missing techs from your neighbours :-) There may be good or bad means to do it :-) If you are planning to play offensively then you should take the Class III. If you prefer building up and play more defensively you have to take the Radiation shield. Hey, missile base + Radiation shield is VERY strong defence for the early stages ...

GePap · November 18, 2002, 13:32

After a certain point any ship you design will beat the AI, since its ships are so pitifull late game.

I prefer using more space for systems than weapons, since systems can give a huge advantage. Achilles makes all weapons ignore armor, structural doubles damage and High energy bonus doubles energy. So a sigle plasma cannon with all of these will do more damage than 4 or 5 plams without, since once you overcome shields, the enemy ship is toast. If you put in inertial nullieirs, then you can load up on weapons with a limited arch, since you can turn without cost, and you on top of that get a significant boost to bean defense.

A for timewarped-phazed ships: they are great. Add ship transporters (wrong name: the tech that moves the ships 20 spaces instantly) and what yuou have is a ship that cn instantly cross deep into the enemy battleline: open fire at point blank range, then beocmes impervious to damage, since the enm will never be able to hit it. One just has to be sure of being able to end a battle in 5 turns.

vmxa1 · November 18, 2002, 14:10

GePap I think as you mentioned that the number of ships designs for late game are numerious and all will work against the AI. Choose the ones you enjoy, itdoes not make a big difference. Sub Space Teleporters is the name you were looking for, I think.

Ekanata · January 19, 2003, 22:27

I've just had an interesting experience. Since other race already have R.Hull, and AM Rocket, I decide to research Interceptor, and build destroyer class Carrier (carry 2 interceptor).

In an early battle with Sakrra, to my suprise, my one destroyer kill 2 destroyer and 2 frigate. This destroyer carrier design became my favourite early defender until I have sufficient technology, industry and shipyard (starbase) to build mirv ships.

During early stage, electronic computer seems overwhelmed by those little fighter, not to mention that ships weapon are ussualy front munted while those fighter are chasing/firing from behind. And those fighters can also 'chew' missiles on their way to target ship. I think this frigate carrying massdriver/fusion interceptor might also kill a star base which doesn't have reinforced hull & shields (Too bad I got my cd broken before I test the theory ).

Edit : Corrected ship's class name.

vmxa1 · January 19, 2003, 22:55

I never really messed around with interceptors. Buy another CD and give us an update. Where you are in the tech tree and what the ship design is and what you are going up against would be of interest.

bakalov · January 20, 2003, 03:10

Interceptors are nice vs. missile boats because they cannot be targeted by missiles. Very cool if you have warp dissipator to prohibit them from retreating ....

Actually you have to be creative to use that :-)

Ekanata · January 20, 2003, 03:40

It was tiny galaxy, impossible, mid-tech game and I only have 2 colony (still early turn). In fact I was switching from colony base to build cheapest carrier (no computer, etc) when I saw Sakrra fleet come to my homeworld.

My carrier has 2 separate interceptor deck (I forgot whether there's basic scout escort) and have fusion beam tech. One of 4 Sakrra detroyer firing Fusion beam. No missile (iirc) and no leader on any of their electronic computer controlled ships. On the first combat turn, I launch 1 interceptor squadron on each frigate while pulling my ship(s) away. Both frigate destroyed on first sweep. Next, each interceptor squadron closing on each detroyer and causes severe hull damage on first contact (and destroy them on the next turn).

I won't be able to get another copy for the next 4 weeks, besides I hope moo3 would probably be available. I would be greatfull if someone can verify my theory/experience.

*dreaming*

telepath carrier approaching silicoid homeworld before turn 15.

*dreaming*

Cxwf · January 20, 2003, 23:18

Speaking of carriers, I had a lot of fun last game loading Doomstars up with Heavy Fighters. 4 Doomstars with nothing but Heavy Fighters tears things up really fast. This is probably not the best combination to use, as you basically miss the first fire round, and that can be devastating in Moo2, but I enjoyed it

I imagine that works well with cloaking, since you can sit there cloaked while the fighters are out destroying things. Not one battle lasted longer than the first time the fighters opened fire.

After killing the Guardian with these things, I built a fleet of CA's (or might have been BB's, but I think CA's) with Quantum Detonators and max engines and shields. No weapons. They just flew up and self destructed with the quantum detonators. Again not the most effective tactic, but Kamikaziing was very fun. My biggest complaint was that the AI had so little left to blow up at that point

bakalov · January 21, 2003, 04:28

The carriers are good vs missile ships, missile ships are somewhat good vs beam ships and planets, and the beam ships are good vs. the carriers (they usually easily destroy the fighters).

And hey, cxwf, it is easy to kill the guardian when you have so much tech .... try to kill it only with cruisers and frigates with modded merculites (some with EMG). Some people claim that this can be done before turn 100 in prewarp :P and I agree with them :-)

Ekanata · January 21, 2003, 05:47

Quote:

Originally posted by bakalov
The carriers are good vs missile ships, missile ships are somewhat good vs beam ships and planets, and the beam ships are good vs. the carriers (they usually easily destroy the fighters).

Carriers can be a good early design, due to victim's low armor, low shield and low active defence accuracy and power.
Missiles can be a good mid design, due to battle pods and many missile mods availability and decent manufacturing power.
Beams can be a good late design, due to miniaturization, advance computer, special devices/weapon mods availability and no ammo requirement.

Quote:

Originally posted by bakalov
And hey, cxwf, it is easy to kill the guardian when you have so much tech .... try to kill it only with cruisers and frigates with modded merculites (some with EMG). Some people claim that this can be done before turn 100 in prewarp :P and I agree with them :-)

It require design and manouver which makes three waves of missiles hit the guardian sequencially within the same turn.
The first wave is decoy that will waste all guardian's PD weapon and spatial compressor. Watch the timing and amount to avoid PD and spatial compressor touching the next wave.
The second wave will be mirv designed to take down the shield. Make sure you send many extra in order to compensate for guardian's ecm and lightning field.
The third wave is EMG-ed mirv that will make the killing blow.

Urban Ranger · January 21, 2003, 07:23

Spatial compressor is not a defensive device, it is an offensive weapon. The defense is lightning shield, which doesn't get "wasted" - it is always on.

Ekanata · January 21, 2003, 23:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Spatial compressor is not a defensive device, it is an offensive weapon. The defense is lightning shield, which doesn't get "wasted" - it is always on.

In my experience, when guardian's PD weapon is insufficient to eliminate missile thread, it will use spatial compressor as last resort. After that the remaining missiles will be facing lighting field and ecm jammer which is always active just like you said.

bakalov · January 27, 2003, 11:32

yes, that is the strategy ...... the guardian must be fooled to use its spatial compressor on the decoy wave of missiles (they must be fast to reach him before the second shield-clearing wave). Btw the exact strategy can be found in the guide that was posted somewhere here by vmxa ;-)

TriMiro · February 3, 2003, 20:46

Hey guys all of you are making good ships but I think noone mentioned themost powerful special. What about
Internal Nullifier.
The defence is something very important +100% beam defence, that is with a good computer is almost unbeatable. also it is great advantage that you do not have to spend AP turning around. So all your weapons could be aimed at the front and thus save some space for more weapons.
I personally prefer many not so well modifyed beams to few well modifyed once. I do not care that much about offence, buch more about defence. Who cares how many turns is it going to take me to kill everybody if they can never kill me.
Is there no one to prefer defence or did I miss him on the threat.

vmxa1 · February 4, 2003, 02:32

I wil use Nulls in titans and larger if I get them.
I only care a lot about def in the unkillable DS, otherwise, the lost of an occassional BB in late game is of no concern. It rarely happens anyway as late game fights are about who goes first.

bakalov · February 4, 2003, 07:42

TriMiro, the defence helps only against the AI in SP, it will not do you any good in MP. Everyone here will agree that the offence is the best defence. The proper approach to the late battles is to annihilate the opposition from the first strike so it wont have any chance to fire at you at all :-) The high initiative is the key to the victory there, and the player with more offence will usually have it.

originalbork · February 4, 2003, 14:04

It amazes me that there is a whole thread on ship design for SP. From what I have just played (first games in 4 years) I only build 5 ships before the end of the game.

Scout - No Computer (NC) (wastes money) Extended Fuel Tank (EFT)
Runner (Frig) - Battle Pods Augies Extended Fuel (Can double as a scout to find wormholes)
BM-1 BP, NC, Reinforced Hull (RH), Augmented Engines (AE)
2 sets of 3 Nuclear Missiles Fast (2 shot racks always), The rest, about 14 are NM Fast, Mirg, ECCM spread out over all slots.
BM-2 after getting irridium fuel cells you replace the first 2 sets of nukes for fodder with fast mercs and you will get about 16 Mirv Nukes Here.
BM-3 After getting Zort, you build the same ship but make the fodder mercs, fast and heavy and replace the mirv nukes with mirv mercs.

These are the only ships you need to exterminate and conquer with 7 ai on impossible, prewarp and ave galaxy somewhere around turn 150-170. You will not lose a ship to the ai if done properly.

The only tech I have at the end of the game is through
Robos,
Anti-matter drive (the last definite tech I get),
Zort,
Space Academy,
Super Comps,
Soil Enrichment,
Tachyon Comm (heading to Sub Space at the end, I would never take tach comm in a MP game though),
Anti grav harness (need that ground combat)

mufa · March 23, 2003, 17:58

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1

(11/12/98) After many other trial designs, I have refitted a new Orion Globe. It now contains many other new options. See for yourself. This is now the official Orion Globe configuration.

(01) Stellar Coverter
(**) Phasors ( f ) sp,af
(**) Phasors (360) sp,af
(**) Phasors (fx ) hv,sp,af
(01) Plasma Torp. NR,env,eccm,ovr
(01) Disruptor (360) hv,af
(01) Ion Pulse (360) af

Achilles Targetting Unit
Battle Pods
High Energy Focus
Hyper-X Capacitor
Phasing Cloak
Structural Analyzer
Subspace Teleporter
Time Warp Facilitator

nice DS, are you not using any shield at all ? Because I tried to make this ship and after putting all the specials I have only 355 space available

vmxa1 · March 23, 2003, 21:28

To tell you the truth I can not remember anything much about it as I have not made one in a long time. What level was the tech for miniturization?
Here is what one would expect to see in a battle:

The time warp facilitator turns(version 1.31) works like this:

In each round,
_________________________________________
You start enemy start

Turn 1: you Turn 1: enemy
Turn 2: enemy Turn 2: you
---- ----
Turn 3: you Turn 3: you
----
go back to turn 1 go back to turn 1
_________________________________________

After both sides have taken a turn, the final turn (3rd turn) goes to the ships that have a time warp facilitator on. Know your turns so that you can shut off all your un-used weapons and allow the ship to recloak.

Therefore, if you are using this ship, and you are attacking first, SKIP THE TURN!!! Let the enemy go first. If the ship is the only ship standing up against the enemy (highly recommended), then when you skip your turn, the enemy will have nothing to shoot at because you have NOT decloaked yet. THEN you attack, and the Phasing Cloak and T.W.F combo will work. And if the enemy attacks first, the all is well, as long as your ships in that fight are cloaked.

If you do it right, you can sustain up to 10 rounds undiscovered, 10 turns to do whatever you want. Unless the enemy runs before they're all destroyed, but through my experiences, I doubt that they'll run before you finish mowing them down.

vmxa1 · March 24, 2003, 00:43

Quote:

Originally posted by mufa
nice DS, are you not using any shield at all ? Because I tried to make this ship and after putting all the specials I have only 355 space available

Ok you forced me to go create one again. I just to a game that had been won and refained from killing the last planet. The bad news was the game only went into turn 90's and had almost no tech.
I had to run the thing out to get to advance tech III.
This put me with everything in the ship as listed with X shields and X-armor.
I was able to fit 20 of the forward phasors, 13 of the 360 phasors and 15 of FX ones.
I think it had about 340's for space with all in except the phasors, so yours sounds about right.
The thing is that the amount of weapons is not real important a the ship is not going to be kill and can fire away over and over.
The other thing is with those specials the weapons will be many many times more effective that normal.
One took down the fortress of the anties. I suspect you know how much damage that can take.

mufa · March 24, 2003, 02:57

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
The time warp facilitator turns(version 1.31) works like this:

In each round,
_________________________________________
You start enemy start

Turn 1: you Turn 1: enemy
Turn 2: enemy Turn 2: you
---- ----
Turn 3: you Turn 3: you
----
go back to turn 1 go back to turn 1

I just wander what is happening if the opponet has ships with TWF too. You can still shoot and remain cloacked ?

vmxa1 · March 24, 2003, 13:41

In an SP game you are not likely to run into that. They would have to have phased cloaks as well. IOW they would have to have your design and they will not.
If they TWF only you can cloak and they can not shoot
When you shoot it will be very painful as:

Normal weapon: x1
High energy focus: x1.5 (50% power up)
Achilles system: x2 (skipping the armor)
Structural analyzer: x2 (double structure damage)
Autofire: x3 (triple weapon fire)
Hyper-X Capacitor: x2 (double weapon fire)
---------------
x36
So you are going to hit them very hard even with very few guns. If you got X-arm from Orion, they will be hard pressed to hurt you.
You are not going to see one of these ship in any normal game.

Thoth · March 24, 2003, 14:26

Quote:

Structural analyzer: x2 (double structure damage)

?? According to MOO2's right-click help: "Structural Analyzer: Doubles all damage that penetrates sheilds"

vmxa1 · March 24, 2003, 17:13

Near as I can tell that is a difference without a distinction. Well ok, I guess you have engine and structure in theory, in practice it is basically structural.

Kaptain Ken · March 24, 2003, 17:52

It must be assumed that the shields are taken out first, then the damage is doubled, or is the game text wrong?

vmxa1 · March 24, 2003, 19:35

I am not sure as to how to even test this, but it is of no import anyway.
The point is you can use this design to clean up as many ships as you wish.
I just tested it again by sending 1 DS to antaran and it busted their titan and fortress on the second round. I did not even use the cloaking, I just use auto combat.

Thoth · March 25, 2003, 11:13

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Near as I can tell that is a difference without a distinction. Well ok, I guess you have engine and structure in theory, in practice it is basically structural.

For the ship design you give above, that is correct. But there is a difference if you haven't got Achilles to bypass armour.

Either way, the SA is one of my favourite specials.

Urban Ranger · April 4, 2003, 11:08

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
You are not going to see one of these ship in any normal game.

I tend to drag my games out until I get one of these monsters wander about. Anyway I stopped playing MoO 2 but still play MoO 1.

mufa · April 28, 2003, 14:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Special systems:
damper shield

Guys, how do u manage to get damper filed, except from Orion ?
I captured an antaren ship, but I don't have damper field in my specials

Thanx