Who should be the leader of the Arabs if they're in PTW?

[Cimbri]

Why not caliph Umar al-Khattab? In 633-643 After Abu Bakr’s death, the Prophet’s companion Umar al-Khattab is elected as the second caliph. Syria, Iraq, Egypt and Palestine come under Muslim rule. Jerusalem is captured, Caliph Umar declares that Christians will be honoured and protected. He introduces the Islamic calendar consisting of 12 lunar months.

[kring]

Originally posted by Dimorier Maximus
As if a whole bunch of Muslims are buying this game anyways.

Considering that they put a price on the head of Salman Rushdie, they would probably do the same since it is a major violation of their religious beliefs. It is not about them buying the game, it is either respecting their religion or not wanting to risk a price on their own heads.

[Andrew_Jay]

Yeah, we don't need some radical Islamic cleric declaring a fatwa against Sid Meier and the rest of Firaxis. Though it would be very interesting and surprising to turn on CNN and see THAT news story.

But anyway, Muhammed simply can't be used, that's that. One has to pay attention to other people's sensibilities, especially those of a major, mainstream religion. If the followers of the Celestial Moon Temple don't like something, sucks to them. If you're going to offend about a billion people, you should probably rethink it.

[Mattaba]

Saladin of course Muhammed, would offend muslims and almost nobody knows all those other caliphs and whatever

Originally posted by Andrew_Jay
Yeah, we don't need some radical Islamic cleric declaring a fatwa against Sid Meier and the rest of Firaxis. Though it would be very interesting and surprising to turn on CNN and see THAT news story.

Good point I could even see something like that happening, a plane crashing into the office of Firaxis or something else.

[Gangerolf]

as for the debate of Saladin not being Arab, i dont think thats a big deal really.. Washington wasnt an american either by blood

american by blood?

[Dom Pedro II]

It seems to me that the same people who complain about Saladin, a Kurd, being the leader of the Arabs, are also the people who want Napoleon, a Corsican, as leader of France instead of Joan...

[Dimorier Maximus]

I want Saladin and Napoleon as the leader heads. I think Joan of Arc should be a great leader (the first one to pop up for France).

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Gangerolf

american by blood?

Yeah, apparently Washington married into the United States.........

[PMLF]

Saladin must be the Arab leader of course for many reasons (he is famous in the west, etc...).

By the way, what UU would the Arabs have?

[snuggs]

UU? Some kind of light cavalry thing perhaps, got with Monotheism. 3-2-2?

[Gangerolf]

camel rider!
civ3 needs a camel unit

[Dimorier Maximus]

Did anyone actually ever ride and fight on camels, or is that a bunch of hogwash? If it is real, can you give me some sound historical info on it? I always thought camels were too slow to be of any use outside of a desert.

[Andrew_Jay]

I'm really expecting some kind of cavalry, probably camel, too. I'm pretty sure they rode into combat on camels, I think it was actual fact that the smell of the camals would confuse and panic the European horses during the Crusades.
However, that said, does the unique unit have to be ANOTHER knight replacement? We already have an extra attack knight, and extra defense knight and a no resource knight. I'll be really dissapointed if it's an extra MOVE knight, and they just copy the unit from Age of Kings (not literally of course, but you know, absolutely no really difference).

What I'd like to see, since Lawrence of Arabia is probably my favorite movie, is a cavalry replacement with some extra attack. Give them a camel and put some carbines their hands, or perhaps a sword, but make them look half modern; a la Lawrence of Arabia. I'd also like to see Prince/King Feisal as their leader, but that's probably not going to happen.

Anyway . . . PLEASE not another knight replacement, and not ANOTHER ancient or medieval UU . . . well, a cavalry replacement would be okay even if it is still "medieval".

On a related topic, what would the Turkish unique unit be? Probably Janissaries though I don't know exactly what kind of unit that would be, seeing how I'm pretty sure the word is just a term to refer to the military units made up of formerly Christian children, taken as a sort of tax from Ottoman controlled areas (no really, the Ottomans treated Christians under their rule pretty well except for the fact that every year they would expect a quota of so many thousand male infants to be handed over to them. They would be raised as Muslims and given a pretty good education and then go on to be bureacrats or soldiers in the Sultan's service)

[PMLF]

janissaries would be probably similar to the musketeer. Maybe the janissaries wouldhave an extra movement point or an extra attack point.

[Andrew_Jay]

Yeah, that's how they were modelled in Age of Kings, as musketeers. Maybe have them replace the Riflemen? I just really want to see a lot more later game UU.

[snuggs]

Janissaries for the Turks, definitely. A bit like the French Musketeer. Perhaps faster.

Late game UUs - fair enough, but these aren't the nations to try 'em on. The Arabs' greatest military successes fell overwhelmingly in the date range 630-990. The Turks' Ottoman heyday was 1350ish to 1650ish. Therefore it would look all wrong for the Turks/Arabs to get the edge in the modern age. Can you think of a single technological/doctrinal thing that set either nation's military apart over the last century or two?

[Nakar Gabab]

Originally posted by snuggs
Janissaries for the Turks, definitely. A bit like the French Musketeer. Perhaps faster.

Late game UUs - fair enough, but these aren't the nations to try 'em on. The Arabs' greatest military successes fell overwhelmingly in the date range 630-990. The Turks' Ottoman heyday was 1350ish to 1650ish. Therefore it would look all wrong for the Turks/Arabs to get the edge in the modern age. Can you think of a single technological/doctrinal thing that set either nation's military apart over the last century or two?

Not last century or two. Last fifty years. People seem to forget how SHORT the Modern Age is compared to the other ages. There's a geometric compounding of history going on in Civ3 (and in general, but that's something unrelated). The Ancient Era represents a HUGE span of human history, the Medieval Era represents another large chunk. Then you have the Industrial, which represents a few hundred years, and Modern, which is literally the last few decades.

That said, ONLY America should have a modern UU. There just aren't any other candidates in the last 50 years.

I would, however, like to see more Industrial UUs. The Panzer is entirely appropriate, but I'd like to see more. Alas, nearly every civ I think will be in PtW will *not* have an Industrial UU.

[Andrew_Jay]

Most likely the Arab UU will be something from the time of the Crusades. However, I think that a cavalry replacement would be completely plausible and then at least be somewhat late game. Even though you could almost say that Cavalry comes at the very middle of the game (very late medieval, often only researched just before or after going to industrial) the Russian Cossack is still the third latest (out of 16!) UU. Only the Panzer and F-15 come after it.
So basically, when I say late game I don't mean a Modern Armour UU, I mean something like a cavalry replacement, which, when compared to other UU is still pretty late.

[snuggs]

Still, the cavalry unit represents the horsemen of 18th and 19th century Europe, a period where the Arab world stood still. Far more appropriate something that comes with Monotheism. But I hear you re. the lack of late-game special units. There just seems no satisfactory way round it.

[JtheJackal]

Originally posted by snuggs
But I hear you re. the lack of late-game special units. There just seems no satisfactory way round it.

Because the UU basicaly represents the time period where that civ historicly was at it's peak

[dnassman]

Well know that we know that they are definetly in PTW the speculation of who the leader would be and what UU they have would be even more interesting to see who gets it right.

[PMLF]

I think the Arab UU should be a replacement for the Horsemen or for the Knight.