Firaxis: More diplomacy options please.

Oerdin · July 14, 2002, 13:43

It is probably to late to get this into PtW but I think the game can be greatly improved by including a few more diplomacy options. Right now there is no way to deal with global warming on an international level. Allowing a "lower your pollution or I will declare war" option would be nice as would an enviromental pact to give us some way of dealing with global warming. Or how about a way to tell country X to stop attacking country y or you will declare war. What are some of your ideas to improve diplomacy? Please discuse amoungst yourselves.

BeBro · July 14, 2002, 19:04

I agree, more options would be great.

I´m not sure that war against polluters is a good option, perhaps such things could be handled with the UN, eg. all heavy polluters would face trade and tech trade embargos? Not sure if this can be implemented...

I´d like to see an option to cancel a treaty before the 20 turn end, but against money. And the option to make non aggression treaties.

Oerdin · July 15, 2002, 00:53

Those are both good ideas and I especially like the idea of including more things in the U.N.. Of course wouldn't a peace treaty be a non aggression treaty?

Inverse Icarus · July 15, 2002, 00:57

it'd be great if i could say "i dont want your iron anymroe, but heres 100 gold to make up the difference".

ThePlagueRat · July 15, 2002, 00:59

Oh, and FIRAXIS also made the Alpha Centauri stuffed with nice diplomatic options and realistic AI play...
Hmmm, maybe that game was their greatest success in game design?

BeBro · July 15, 2002, 07:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
Of course wouldn't a peace treaty be a non aggression treaty?

Yes, but you can simply break it. In Mp it would be nice to force two humans into peace for a certain amount of turn, without the chance to break it. Best for me would be if you could negotiate the number of turns for this non aggression pact

KingJoff · July 15, 2002, 15:22

I really miss the "please end your war against my friends the X" option from AC. [Which ought to only work if X is willing to accept a no-conditions treaty, otherwise they can answer 'X doesn't seem interested in peace' or the like]

Inverse Icarus · July 15, 2002, 15:55

a game called Ascedancy (old school space tbs ) had that option, and i always loved to see the messages like

"We are begging for peace! the hashaks won't listen to reason!"

dunk · July 15, 2002, 16:34

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
I agree, more options would be great.

Always good.

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
I´m not sure that war against polluters is a good option, perhaps such things could be handled with the UN, eg. all heavy polluters would face trade and tech trade embargos? Not sure if this can be implemented...

It would be interesting. I think the UN is a good way to handle this.

Quote:

Originally posted by BeBro
I´d like to see an option to cancel a treaty before the 20 turn end, but against money. And the option to make non aggression treaties.

What is the difference between this and a peace treaty? Unless you mean like a cease-fire ala Civ I, Civ II, and SMAC?

BTW, Oedin... love the Avatar.

Oerdin · July 15, 2002, 18:16

I just started using in it yesterday. Thanks for noticing. BTW the kitten is cute; is it the one that will be shot if we don't buy things from the poly store?

The_Aussie_Lurker · July 16, 2002, 02:13

My Guess is that BeBro is referring to Cease-Fires! The absence of this option seems like such an oversight to me! Don't get me wrong, overall I do love Civ3, but it does seem like that they did take a step backwards from Alpha Centurai in certain areas of diplomacy- specifically the lack of a proper SMAC style U.N, the ability to have cease-fires (which would be much easier to break than peace-treaties!), Protectorates and "peace-intervention", to name just a few!
As I indicated in my "Diplomacy Poll", there are a number of other, wholly new diplomacy options I'd like to see in Civ3, some of which were drawn from my many fun games of "Birth of the Federation", but even if they were to bring back just the old SMAC diplomacy, I'd be VERY HAPPY!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

Solver · July 16, 2002, 07:32

The more options, the more fun, but one I'd really like to see is "stop your war against Greece!". And it should be both in forms like "stop war against Greece, or I'll declare war!" and "stop war against Greece, I'll then pay you 500 gold".

dunk · July 16, 2002, 09:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
I just started using in it yesterday. Thanks for noticing. BTW the kitten is cute; is it the one that will be shot if we don't buy things from the poly store?

It is the same.

dunk · July 16, 2002, 09:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Solver
The more options, the more fun, but one I'd really like to see is "stop your war against Greece!". And it should be both in forms like "stop war against Greece, or I'll declare war!" and "stop war against Greece, I'll then pay you 500 gold".

And how about, "Stop your war with Greece and give them back Athens, Troy, and Sparta, as well as give them 500 gold. Or else I'll declare war!"

I've never seen the AI cave in to threats though. So it may all just be pointless.

Dimorier Maximus · July 16, 2002, 14:17

Quote:

Originally posted by dunk
And how about, "Stop your war with Greece and give them back Athens, Troy, and Sparta, as well as give them 500 gold. Or else I'll declare war!"

I've never seen the AI cave in to threats though. So it may all just be pointless.

I've seen them cave into threats. Take all their good cities and leave them with just about 5 crappy cities or less, and demand things you would never even think of demanding...like cities.

You'll be able to get some.

Kri77777 · July 16, 2002, 20:18

How about a terrorist-like threat? Like, give me Liverpool or watch my nukes hit it (a little reminder of who has the nukes stockpcled). Also, what about overseeing a county after they have lost a way. For example, what if you could tell Germany they can't build an Army (like after WWI) and you were allowed to send inspectors to see. Or what about a world peace treaty to hold the balence of powers (treaty of versiles). Another idea that is a bit off topic is the possibility for a city or group of cities to rebell and start their own civ and your choise of weather to help them obtain independece and stuff (can't we tell I like to see the balance of power?). Also, more threats and "persuasive" manners in dealing with specific civs. Maybe you also gain an extream upper hand when you take-over thier capital.

Darkworld Ark · July 16, 2002, 23:02

I'd like to see the ability to make another civ either stop war with a civ or start a war with a civ. The second would be cool in multiplayer since you could define yourself as a mercinary civ.

Nubclear · July 17, 2002, 06:36

I'd really like to see an option when the AI civ is demanding something, you can offer something else in return.

So if Germany (the most powerful nation, whos furious with you) demands 5 techs but you have 40000 gold....I'd like to be able to offer him some of that gold instead of giving him the five techs.

phunny_pharmer · July 17, 2002, 12:10

Trade units! Hire mercenaries! Torture, pillage, and burn- using units you bought on the market...

Bring back the global trade pact from SMAC!

Also, triple the number of adjectives for attitude. It would be more descriptive...

And bring back the adjectives for reputation. “Sire, our power is supreme and our reputation is atrocious.” Life is good!

BeBro · July 18, 2002, 16:53

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
My Guess is that BeBro is referring to Cease-Fires! The absence of this option seems like such an oversight to me! Don't get me wrong, overall I do love Civ3, but it does seem like that they did take a step backwards from Alpha Centurai in certain areas of diplomacy- specifically the lack of a proper SMAC style U.N, the ability to have cease-fires (which would be much easier to break than peace-treaties!), Protectorates and "peace-intervention", to name just a few!

Well, I had not a cease fires in mind that are easier to break - I think the current peace treaties are quite easy to break. Currently, you make peace, but you can break it in the same turn. Ok, you´ll ruin your reputation and face war weariness, but that´s all. I think there should be a kind of treaty that cannot be violated for a certain number of turns, not from the Ai, not from a human player. Especially in Mp with two human players you could have a real state of peace for certain periods in this way.

The_Aussie_Lurker · July 18, 2002, 18:53

Hi BreBro,

Sorry to put words in your mouth like that!! My feeling, though, is that peace treaties should be almost set in stone-i.e. you can break them early, but at a massive drop in your overall international standing! A cease-fire, on the other hand, should be for variable lengths of time, and be easier to break (in terms of War weariness and reputation). After all, a cease-fire merely represents an official lull in hostilities, not an official end to a conflict-Just look at North and South Korea! In fact, cease fires would be even more useful given the War Weariness effect, given that both sides would then be able to halt a conflict long enough to sooth their angry populace!
I also think, though, that if you have been at war with someone, then a cease-fire should be needed BEFORE you can sign a peace treaty!
Anyway, it's a great idea nonetheless!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

phunny_pharmer · July 19, 2002, 00:53

How about an option that allows you to stack units with another player's units?

Ala SMAC...

TexasPride · August 17, 2002, 16:49

All great ideas!!!!

I like all of them. I would like the option to be able to buy specific tiles. (For when you want that iron near york but you don't necessarily want the city and you dont want to pay for a resource that will go away and become more expensive in 20 turns and instead want it permanently or when you want that tile bakc that the english cultural level just took away. BTW- i think that sucks that you can lose tiles to culture levels) I would also like multilateral negotiations so you can negotiate with Babylon and Russia for a mutual protection pact between all of you at the same time and ensure that russia and babylon will sighn a pact and not go to war with eachother (which is what seems to always happen to me). I would also like vassal countries for when you want thier resources and stuff without haveing to micromanage everything and would like to be able to ensure that that country does exactly as you say no matter what (you would also have control of thier military in war time). I want peacekeeping missions for the UN which would allow the owner to order wars to end between people or the rest of the world will declare war or embargo them.

Just some ideas!

Hagbart · August 17, 2002, 17:10

I liked the Planetary Council in AC, something similar (and improved) would be great in Civ3.

Hagbart · August 17, 2002, 17:10

Oerdin: Environmental Pacts would be great.

Jon Shafer · August 17, 2002, 18:14

Jeff Morris told me that there would be no new diplomacy options in PtW. But you guys can hope for the next expansion.

SABRA · August 18, 2002, 10:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Hagbart
Oerdin: Environmental Pacts would be great.

indeed it would be , and everyone would support it .

SABRA · August 18, 2002, 10:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
Jeff Morris told me that there would be no new diplomacy options in PtW. But you guys can hope for the next expansion.

They really ought to rethink on that one , because the diplomacy as it is int that great .
And the should do somethink about the workers TRUE identity , and settlers off course .
They should also include the option to trade units , with and without technology .

TexasPride · August 19, 2002, 11:49

YEP!!

hzm · August 19, 2002, 14:07

They aren't going to include any new diplomacy under any situation. They think the reason civ3 was successful was because it was a "simple game". Just look at the interviews with SM. He thinks it's perfect.