Impis-did the Zulu get jipped?

[johncmcleod]

When firaxis made civ3, they made sure not to make two UUs with the same exact stats. And when they made each civ's UU, they must've made hoplites before impis. You see, they both replace the same unit, the spearman. They wanted to keep the UUs replacing it a defensive unit, which is what the spearman is, because the civ should have a defensive unit in the ancient age. So they made the hoplites, and to keep them defensive, they upped the d to 3. Then, when they had to make the impis, they must've had a dilemma. They couldn't make the defense to 3, for that would make it the same as the hoplite. And they couldn't make the attack to 2, for that would make its o and d the same, and it's supposed to be a defensive unit. So that left them with two things. Cost and movement. If a spearman cost a resource, they could've made the impi without the resource. But the spearman didn't cost a resource. And they couldn't just make the impi cheaper. But a uu shouldn't be just a cheaper version of a unit. So all they had left was movement. They just bumped up the movement. But that doesn't really make sense. The benefits of movement are for an attacking unit, which the impi isn't. Yeah, sometimes you need mobile defense units, but still most of the time the extra movement point will be useless. Does anyone have any suggestions on make the impi a better unit?

[ThePlagueRat]

Did anyone tell you that Firaxis has become really stupid?
Well, I do now... ( post-Alpha Centauri )

[Aeson]

Try using the Impi for resource denial. Even on Deity you can keep everyone on your landmass from ever having Iron, at least until Gunpowder (hint: deny the Saltpeter too, Horses and Luxuries too if you're feeling especially sadistic).

Impi are also perfect defense for your Horseman stacks. They allow for a much more fluid defence, having twice the range of Spearmen, you can defend your cities twice as well (either half cost if no need for happiness garrisons, or twice as many at any confrontation) during the ancient Era.

On really big maps with lots of barbarians (higher difficulty), Impi are priceless.

Don't forget that mobile units can't retreat from Impi either. It's not as big a deal in single player, as the AI doesn't use mobile units well, but Impi in cities are death to Horsemen. Impi in cities on hills are tough for even Knights to take out.

Overall I think Impi are the second best UU, just behind MW's.

[Iskandar Reza]

Originally posted by Aeson
Overall I think Impi are the second best UU, just behind MW's.

I forgot what those are. Mindworms?

[monkspider]

Mounted Warriors Iskander, I generally would agree with Aeson's critique and definitly place the Impi in the top three. My best UU though has always been a controversial pick, the Bowman.

[Dan Severn]

The Impi I left the same in defense and offense, but I gave them a hp bonus of 2- that way they stand a chance against more modern units, simply by being downright impossible to finish off.

I think the roman legions were also a bit unnaccurate. So I made them tougher, more expensive, have a hp bonus, and cost one population. that way, as the romans, if yo can create a sizeable force of legions, you're gonna do great, but they're very difficult to replace.

I also felt panzers and tanks were stupid- WWII era tanks (what I think tanks are also meant to represent) could move every bit as, if not faster than, cavalry. So I made all armour move 3, but panzers have a very high defense value, and a hp penalty of one. (The German tanks were better design, and difficult to knock out one-on-one but were difficult to maintain in the field.)

[Bambul]

Impi were a lot more useful before the last patch because they would deny fast units retreat, in particular: horsemen. But now that units don't always retreat, they aren't that effective for that purpose.

Impi are the only mobile defensive unit you get unit Mech Inf, which, co-incidentaly, is also the last defensive unit. It depends on your playing style I guess. eg. I thought F-15's were underpowered so I gave them the bombardment stats of bombers and made bombers upgrade to F-15's. I've fallen in love with my fighter-bombers

[Iskandar Reza]

You like phallic objects, don't you?

[johncmcleod]

Where's Aeson's critique? I'd like to see it.

[monkspider]

Check earlier in the thread John.

[SpencerH]

I'm just finishing a game where I played as the Zulus (which is rare for me, it just came up as the random civ). I think its strange to think of the impis as defensive units but they work very well especially, as Aeson mentioned, in conjunction with horsie units or as infrastructure destroyers.

[Zachriel]

Impi's are great on crowded maps for early rushes. In this game, my Impi's attacked the Japanese early and hard. They finally relented and gave me all their remaining cities. I let Tokugawa live -- under Impi guard, on a wind-blown, antarctic penisula.

[Theseus]

Zachriel, you do the best screenshots.

That's very cruel, BTW... why keep Japan alive at that point?

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Theseus
Zachriel, you do the best screenshots.

That's very cruel, BTW... why keep Japan alive at that point?

they might buy some techs later, but after a while they wont have money.

i honestly LOATHE being next to the zulu because they turn the impis into offensive units.

sure they have a 1 attack, but they can retreat, and have a 2 defense. early wars (archers / horsemen / swordsmen) have a problem fighting the impis, and their stacks usually stay pretty well defended, so you have to let them attack YOU, rather than attack them.

also, impis in a city are great because they make it so horsemen cant retreat. another reason i hate fighting them.

i think that one thing may make them EQUAL to hoplites. sure, a 3 defese is nice, but if the unit can retreat and come back 2 turns later, whats the point?

also, when i play AS the zulu, horsemen/impi stacks work great, and move swiftly.

the impi is a pretty damn UU. if anyone got screwed it's the english

[Inverse Icarus]

and btw i'll warn you before the PR Nazis attack you.

Jipped (really Gyped) is offensive slang referrig to the plight of the Gypsy people.

im sure theres someone on this site who is (or pretends to be) a Gypsy and will call you a rascist for that. stupid PR Nazis.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
Did anyone tell you that Firaxis has become really stupid?
Well, I do now... ( post-Alpha Centauri )

I'm glad you've finally seen the light about Firaxis.

When Firaxis gives War Elephants a 4.3 value, but Longbowmen a 4.1, they've proven they have no idea what they are doing. (Longbowmen should be 4.3; Elelphants 3.1).


As for the units, the problem is that the numerical values are so low, thus making any change a major one. When you have that situation you've handcuffed yourself as a designer in altering or adding units. Differences in later eras can be more flexible as adding an attack point will hardly matter. In the Ancient era adding a single attack point to archers increases their attack strength by 50%.

So the entire unit lst needs reevaluation, or at least editing and new mods.

[Deathwalker]

Even thouhg there defensive. I find that in my games were I am next to the Zulu's they always attack on mass with them. It always comes down to Legion Vs Impi

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Theseus
Zachriel, you do the best screenshots.

That's very cruel, BTW... why keep Japan alive at that point?

Alas, a deal is a deal.

[DrFell]

Impi are great units, and they'll be even better in MP. The Zulu traits also complement their UU very well. Imagine in an MP 1 on 1 game, you could use your scouts to go hunt out your enemy's location and resources, then follow it up with a 'veteran Impi flood' covering as many of their resources as you can manage. Chances are you will cut them off from either iron or horses, and hurt their expansion a great deal. After that you can start preparing a massive horseman rush, escorting the horsemen with Impi. Now you have a 2.2.2 stack of units with no weak spot, very resistant to counter attacks which will be common with human players.

Trust me, Impi are one of the best UU in the right situation, certainly more flexible than the hoplite.

[Iskandar Reza]

Originally posted by Coracle


I'm glad you've finally seen the light about Firaxis.

Coracle, with your permission I'd like to compile all your posts into a book.