US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
reds4ever: Are your friends unable to find work from a defense contractor? I would have thought that they at least would be hiring people to work on and build aircraft.

defence>commercial? i think not

[OneFootInTheGrave]

One more problem with the whole affair is looking how US is becoming increasingly "police state" oriented. We will all agree that it is extremly unlikely that US gets to the point where former communist regimes were. However this is the step on that path.

The fact is that a system like this can do more harm than good has been shown countless times in history. You might claim that it was with oppresive/tyrannic regimes that this happened! Precisley, did any democracy before encourage citizens to "keep and eye" on suspicious activities?

All these regimes that are now looke upon as oppressive and tyrannical made perfect sense to many people that were in those countries at the beginning, only time has shown how many things went wrong.

US will not become a 1 man/party contolled state, democracy will always be there, but it is getting an unhelty dose of normal freedoms/rights taken out in the name of security. These measures might be effective to catch a few real criminals, but much more likely to be misused and once you become a victim who will help you? Traitors/ potential terrorists do usually not have much to say once they are convicted - rightly or wrongly. And such system guarantees many innocent victimes of the system, even though US is a democracy. And that should worry anyone.

Do you think that in USSR the bosses wanted to kill all those guys - no - but they seemed to be a threat to them, rightly or wrongly, so the bosses did what they thought is the best for them, and the tip could have been just because someone was jelaous of the future victim. (such system is by default suceptible to deception and fuelled by fear, it will give you nnocent victimes)

I am not saying this will happen, especially not on such large scale as in former dictatorships, but the doors are opening and they will not be easy to shut once they open. (just remember the 50's - were the laws just as loose than? )

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Don't try to tell me, that Russia has no secret service, whatever its name is, and that nobody from the old KGB serves in it.

Sure we have. Federal Security Service.

Btw: Veshat' tebya na chlene byla, konechno, shutka. Nikto ne umeet takiye malen'kiye uzly.

We are not allies anymore?

[Lung]

Originally posted by drake
Scared people panic.

More level headed times are ahead.
I am confident of that. I don't subscribe to the "America is going to fall apart" ideas.

I only come to this programs defense because everyone is only seeing the potential negatives. I'd rather try and see the positives.

If everyone looked at the citizencorps site a little closer, they would see that theres much more to it than "spying on people". Theres programs that are being set up to help educate normal citizens as to what they should do in cases of emergencies, to help local authorities out and help provide assistance to people in medical need.

Those ideas must surely be idiocy as well since Bush supports them too.

Are you saying that we actually agree on something?

The paranoid part comes from the original article. I don't disagree with the principle, but the alleged method. If the method is incorect, then i may actually agree with it. i'll check it out, and let you know if it is more sinister than you realise

I take back the "pull your finger out of your arse" jibe. You can put it back in whenever you feel like it

[Blisterz]

I honestly dont understand how making cable and telephone installers and garbage men government informants could be a good thing. people ALREADY call the police for stupid bullshit, i dont think we need a special orwellian task force to waste more time, invade more privacy, and make the world a scarier place.

A few weeks ago, while home sick from work, my Cable internet went out. so, like any normal person, i called to get it fixed.
after mucking with my lines, he wanted to check out the inside lines to test for a clean signal. being the geek i am, i have lots of noise and toys lying about, which he noticed and commented on in that i-dont-trust-you manner.

"you've got a whole lot of stuff in here. what do you do for a living?"

After telling him, and getting his "i dont understand" response, he packed up his **** and left. if citizencorps had been in effect at that time, there would've been a damn good chance my door would've gotten knocked down and everything siezed. all because "most normal people dont have that much gear lying about. he must be up to no good."

so.. how does one tell the difference between kids sitting around and getting high, a group playing a game of risk, and terrorists sitting around a map planning the destruction of the world?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Blisterz
I honestly dont understand how making cable and telephone installers and garbage men government informants could be a good thing. people ALREADY call the police for stupid bullshit, i dont think we need a special orwellian task force to waste more time, invade more privacy, and make the world a scarier place.

A few weeks ago, while home sick from work, my Cable internet went out. so, like any normal person, i called to get it fixed.
after mucking with my lines, he wanted to check out the inside lines to test for a clean signal. being the geek i am, i have lots of noise and toys lying about, which he noticed and commented on in that i-dont-trust-you manner.

"you've got a whole lot of stuff in here. what do you do for a living?"

After telling him, and getting his "i dont understand" response, he packed up his **** and left. if citizencorps had been in effect at that time, there would've been a damn good chance my door would've gotten knocked down and everything siezed. all because "most normal people dont have that much gear lying about. he must be up to no good."

so.. how does one tell the difference between kids sitting around and getting high, a group playing a game of risk, and terrorists sitting around a map planning the destruction of the world?

check if your phone is tapped


this just inspired me
--- imagine this scenario ----

this same guy reports you.

Not a big deal after all - you have nothing to hide.

They come in and tap your phone - obviously without your knowledge.

But being a geek you are, you find this out, and you take the device out since you are pissed off someone is spying on you.

--- and there you go, you just jumped order of magnitude higher on their "suspicious" list because you have the ability to crack their device.

How many people like this will be if the program goes ahead?

----
edit:
not to mention if you had muslim american friend at your home discussing a Civ game before you crack the device

[Rogan Josh]

How would these 'informants' be paid? According to the number of 'suspicious' people they uncover?

[VJ]

How would these 'informants' be paid? According to the number of 'suspicious' people they uncover?

Shall they use the soviet model? Ie; greedy informants will blackmail innocent
people money, from not informing about something they've never done?

[Victor Galis]

Going with that suspicious thing. What if you're placed under submission and you have a chat about a shooter game with your friend on the phone, only both of you know what you are talking about, so to an outsider it's not immediately obvious you're not planning to go gun down innocent civilians?

[Blisterz]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Going with that suspicious thing. What if you're placed under submission and you have a chat about a shooter game with your friend on the phone, only both of you know what you are talking about, so to an outsider it's not immediately obvious you're not planning to go gun down innocent civilians?

Oh, you mean like talking about grand theft auto?


"Ok Ok Ok, First, I am gunna get an uzi, then use it to get me a cop car, then..."

[Victor Galis]

Yeah, like that. I have the slight advantage that most of the games I play, involve casting spells magic and using a bow to shoot things. (Hey, that way they can think I'm insane.)

[Victor Galis]

Look what I found:

[Q Classic]

funny, but a bit too far right now. hm... i realize there's a slight pun that can be made there.

it's doubtful that things will get that bad for a democratic america. i mean, should things go so far, we'd have all them militias and what not breaking away and setting up new countries on their own.

[civman2000]

this is worse than during WWI!

[Victor Galis]

Hmm... all remains to be seen, but it would take some election rigging by Generalissimo Bush to get to this phase, otherwise, he'll just run out of time.