US Congress lobbies for the return of the marbles of Parthenon to Greece. - Page 4

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 15:16

and a more laborate answer still.

Quote:

Originally posted by Faeelin
I think we disproved that, didn't we? What with Athens in Ottoman hands, the Greeks were viewed by outside powers as over

The first part of Greece was already formed and free by that time. (mainly Pelopenese where the capital was, and not Athens). And expanding. The big Powers saw Greece as victor and an ally against the crumbling Ottoman empire (what as left of it).

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Actually, the British had had supported from Europe since almost immediately after the end of the napoleonic wars. And, BTW, the revolution of Greece didn't really start until 1821.

Didnt quite understand your first statement. As for the second, yes and in that time all revolutions were characterised as "devilish" by the big powers after the napoleontian wars had left their scar. Devilish and which needs to be crushed that is.

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Only because they couldn't figure out which side to roll over for.

Which made them roll over and play dead. Meanwhile the contribution of Greece is unparralleled in nation level with the exception of Russia.

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As opposed, to, say, severing diplomatic relations with nondemocracies?

Shall I point out the fact that European nations (France, for instance) have had dealing with Saddam in weapons since the sanctions?

I'm not going to, since that's not the point at hand.

You too sell arms to not so democratic powers.

And yes as opposed to actually push for democratization of Turkey or at least not thrive at its military regime and dire human violations. Or is this unconceivable to you Faeelin?

Quote:

Are modern greeks descended from ancient greeks? I thought modern ones were slavs.

Pathetic troll but for your information in case you are so ignorent. Which I doubt.

http://www.ahmp.org/fintimes1.html

Any more trolls dear?

The Pioneer · July 17, 2002, 16:05

Paiktis is on a roll again....

Go Paikti, go

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 16:09

Tous troo gia proino

They are the usual suspects Pioneer. A couple of Anti-Greeks full of lies and misinformation for whatever cause. Easy prey if you know the answers. I dont know all the answers of course but in a way they have helped me learn more about my country in order to answer their misinformation/lies.

I guess I owe them a thank you then

The Pioneer · July 17, 2002, 16:19

Actually we all owe them that!

Shi Huangdi · July 17, 2002, 17:09

"Britain did not intervened untill Greeks had already declaired their intependence and the Turks were beaten."

The Turks were hardly beaten, as Faeelin showed. They had taken Athens and were advancing. Compare the size of the Ottomans with that of Greece, and also consider the Turks had Egyptian help until the Great powers showed in.

"Although at the beggining we indeed did fight them."

Source?

In fact, can you give a non-biased(That is, not from Greece) source to back up any of your hellenic lies?

"
Turkey didnt even fight."

Paitkis show his historical ignorance one again. Turkey did indeed declare war on the axis near the end.

"Your betrayl of democracy in the most grottesque way in militarey regime Turkey says all about your dedication to freedom anyway. "

No, the USA is the great champion of democracy, and by siding with us Turkey is on the side of democracy(Which makes sense anyway since they are a democratic state). By your oppostion to the USA and Turkey you are enemy of freedom, democracy, and liberty.

"
You're so anti-Greek it's actually amuzing to toy with you."

Nowhere near as fun as trolling you- lines such as "Murderer of Peoples" and "are you even human?" are classic!

"http://www.ahmp.org/fintimes1.html "

Letters to the editor are not solid academic sources! And one at a website by the Hellenic Resources institute no less! You know no history, only Greek lies and propoganda. It is this propoganda that have filled your veins with hate towards the Turk and made you the extreme right-winger you are!

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 17:16

Go to bed little turk.

You're Anti-Greek mania is getting the best of you.

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 17:19

It has become an obsession for you

I think it has to do with your hatred towards your own turkish heritage otherwise, it can not be explained.

You need to cool down and start enjoying the freedom the US is amply offering you.

Or you can go back in Turkey

A girl would not hurt either, to relieve your anti-Greek tensions

You are supposed to be the sick man of Europe, the prototype barbarian turk. I'm sure you can impress someone

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 17:33

and again a mpore elaborate answer to the Greek hater.

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
The Turks were hardly beaten, as Faeelin showed. They had taken Athens and were advancing. Compare the size of the Ottomans with that of Greece, and also consider the Turks had Egyptian help until the Great powers showed in.

Athens was in the process of getting liberated. And they got the Egyptians, we go the Russians. We won. Surprise! The "big ottoman empire", the sick man of Europe was crumbling and finally its barbarism diying

Quote:

Paitkis show his historical ignorance one again. Turkey did indeed declare war on the axis near the end.

And the Allies laughed at her face

It joined them when the war was already won. Bravo to the bravery of Turkey

Please.

Quote:

No, the USA is the great champion of democracy, and by siding with us Turkey is on the side of democracy(Which makes sense anyway since they are a democratic state). By your oppostion to the USA and Turkey you are enemy of freedom, democracy, and liberty.

Yeah go kill a kurd or whatever it is you support

Quote:

Nowhere near as fun as trolling you- lines such as "Murderer of Peoples" and "are you even human?" are classic!

Are you laughing or tearing your insides out...

I get the feeling it is the second.

Quote:

Letters to the editor are not solid academic sources! And one at a website by the Hellenic Resources institute no less! You know no history, only Greek lies and propoganda. It is this propoganda that have filled your veins with hate towards the Turk and made you the extreme right-winger you are!

Nice try but no cookie.

Actually I think that your hatred towards me and the Greek people in general have made you sad.

Good

A fascist supporter of murders, rapes and tortures which are conducted in Turkey deserves no happiness

Faeelin · July 17, 2002, 17:41

I'm going to regret this, but what made the Ottomans so barbaric? The greeks were treated better by them than they were their fellow Christians (In cyprus, the greeks enthusiastically welcomed the ottomans over the venetians).

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 17:42

And if you want non -greek sources for that too, go search the international agencies. There's plenty of proof for Turkey's dire violations of human rights too.

Does that make me a right winger?

I'd say that makes you a murderer of the people because you not only deny it but seem to thrive on it

And yes your humanity is in question by what you say.
Sorry.

Faeelin · July 17, 2002, 17:45

I'm asking about the Ottoman Empire, not the Turks. And thank you for your warm response.

DinoDoc · July 17, 2002, 17:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Faeelin
I'm going to regret this, but what made the Ottomans so barbaric?

The fact that Zorba doesn't like them. It's due to a pathological hatred ingrained into the Greek psyche from the shame of being conquered by the sick man of Europe.

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 17:50

What makes the Turks so barbaric...?

Hmmm, let's try a non greek approach since it seems to be very painful to you.

The armenian genocide rings a bell?

And you're funny when talking about Cyprus. I guess your knowledge about that ispretty limited too.

As for the occupation. Oh just the slaughters, the barbarism of islamic turkish culture and the snatching of young Greeks from their mothers. Go read on the jenisars.

Enlightnemt as well as other important movements of Europe slipped Greece by exactly because of turkish dark and oppresive "culture".

These are facts, I'm afraid.
Still this is the past and the future is something different.
It's just that Turkey doesn't seem to really want to be part of that. "Nationalistic"? I think not. Just pushing for democracy in Turkey unlike Shi.

Faeelin · July 17, 2002, 17:58

No. I don't know what you've been brainwashed with, but nonbiased sources agree that, in 1570, when they took Cyprus, the Turks were preferred over the current rulers.

Same thing happened in Crete and Athens, btw.

The Armenian Genocide was atrocious, of course. But it's a bit unfair to condemn an entire 500 year history for the last 20 years, isn't it?

Regarding Janissaries: Bad, yes. But at the same time, were their future's going to have a greater chance of success with the janissaries, in the empire's state-run schools, and in which they had the potential to be ministers of the sultan himself, or as a greek farmer?

And how much worse was this than the rest of europe, which was busy slaughtering people by the million over religion?

And you're making a really, really, big mistake for calling the Turkish culture of the ottoman empire barbaric.

DinoDoc · July 17, 2002, 18:00

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
Just pushing for democracy in Turkey unlike Shi.

BS! Greece still dreams of implementing the Megali Idea hence the support for the PKK.

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 18:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Faeelin
No. I don't know what you've been brainwashed with, but nonbiased sources agree that, in 1570, when they took Cyprus, the Turks were preferred over the current rulers.

Same thing happened in Crete and Athens, btw.

I wonder what you've been brainwashed with. Could it be that the Byzantines decided that the Pope's cap was more sneaky that the muslim's turban?

hmmm better go read some more.

Quote:

The Armenian Genocide was atrocious, of course. But it's a bit unfair to condemn an entire 500 year history for the last 20 years, isn't it?

no comment.

Quote:

Regarding Janissaries: Bad, yes. But at the same time, were their future's going to have a greater chance of success with the janissaries, in the empire's state-run schools, and in which they had the potential to be ministers of the sultan himself, or as a greek farmer?

You got to be kidding me. They were snatched from the embrace of their mothers to be raised as warriors mostly.

Quote:

And how much worse was this than the rest of europe, which was busy slaughtering people by the million over religion?

We are talking about Greece.

Quote:

And you're making a really, really, big mistake for calling the Turkish culture of the ottoman empire barbaric.

It was barbaric in comparison with the European rennaiscance.

It was a real struggle to dish out a lethargic islamic culture.

I'm amazed you fail to recognize this.

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 18:09

BTW, the armenian genocide, yes it was bad...

man, you're gone!

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 18:14

Also, you use every trick in the book of the turkish propaganda.
I think you better come off clean about this.

1) Jenisares. One of the most vulgar and barbaric practises in human kind and you think it was some form of scholarship

2) armenian genocide...yes.. it was bad... Jesus!

3) turks as liberators

4) the golden century of the ottomans

a dark oppresive and uninovating culture if there ever was one

these are the things that turkish little children are learning in turkish schools.

In case you didn't know.

And the hits just keep on coming if you care to read on the murders and tortures the MODERN turksih state commits. Hey it's not greek propaganda. It's all over the EU's declarations.

Unless of course the EU is ALSO biased.

Sure, this must be it.... the EU is also biased as well as anyone that says anything against Turkey.... especially if he is a right wing Greek.

you're pathetic man

Ned · July 17, 2002, 18:23

I think this is a good idea.

Next Egyptian artifacts to Egypt.

Then the edfices of Saint Marks to Constantinople - or, perhaps, to Athens until the empire's capital is once again free.

Shi Huangdi · July 17, 2002, 18:29

"It has become an obsession for you

I think it has to do with your hatred towards your own turkish heritage otherwise, it can not be explained."

First, I'm not Turkish at all, I'm Irish. Second, I don't hate Greeks, there are reasonable ones such as MarkG. Third, I make my anti-Greece posts because your reactions to them are so hilarious!

"Athens was in the process of getting liberated. And they got the Egyptians, we go the Russians. We won."

Athens would have been crushed without foreign intervention, the Turks would simply be too big for you. And you still have not provided sources for your hellenic claims.

And had Britain wanted to stop Russia, they most certainly could have. Just watched what happened in the Crimean war.

"And the Allies laughed at her face
It joined them when the war was already won. Bravo to the bravery of Turkey

Please."

You said the Turks were out of the war. I was merely correcting your historical ignorance.

"Nice try but no cookie. "

No cookie!? Oh, Paitkis, your rebuttals you use to defend the reliability of your sources are so great. Were you taught debate by the descenats of Socrates?

No, wait, he couldn't be. He is in Greece, where the people are the descendants of slavs.

"
A fascist supporter of murders, rapes and tortures which are conducted in Turkey deserves no happiness."

Your posts bring me plenty of happiness.

It is funny to see racists like you get so angry.

"
Does that make me a right winger?"

No, you are a right winger because you are an anti-turk racist, and because you support other right-wingers such as Bin Laden!

"Go read on the jenisars."

The Janissaries were actually the elites of the Ottoman Empire who held privileged positions. Is granting the children of peasants the highest positions your idea of barbarism?

Comeon, pattycakes, another response!

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 18:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
First, I'm not Turkish at all, I'm Irish. Second, I don't hate Greeks, there are reasonable ones such as MarkG. Third, I make my anti-Greece posts because your reactions to them are so hilarious!

You have made anti-Greek posts since day one! You are just pissed because you got slammed dunk hard and fast by me over each and every confrontation we ever had.

Quote:

Athens would have been crushed without foreign intervention, the Turks would simply be too big for you. And you still have not provided sources for your hellenic claims.

And had Britain wanted to stop Russia, they most certainly could have. Just watched what happened in the Crimean war.

The ottoman empire was crumbling anyway. There was a free Greece (which was increased 3 fold during the Balkan wars without any kind of intervention) already.
Theonly positive intervention there ever was was the battle of navarino which was carried out mainly by Russians my little turk.

Quote:

You said the Turks were out of the war. I was merely correcting your historical ignorance.

You wouldn;t know "ignorance" if it bited you in the ass Shi! That's why you support a military regime of tortures instead of pushing for its demoxritiation.

Turkey hurried to join the allies when the war was already won while the Greeks contributed immensly to the effort. As a result, the Dodecanese were once again part of Greece after WW2.

Pathetic Turkey...

It even asked for rewards for "joining" the war

The Allies told her to piss off.

Quote:

No cookie!? Oh, Paitkis, your rebuttals you use to defend the reliability of your sources are so great. Were you taught debate by the descenats of Socrates?

No, wait, he couldn't be. He is in Greece, where the people are the descendants of slavs.

The only "proof" you have for that is Fulmaier. A discredite theory that was taken up by the "literary" nazis. I merely provided an article which poimts that out amongst other things. For the full refutal you'll have to do your own research. Greeks are descendants of ancient Greeks. Blood, language, customs, civilization..

For more details read the article and commence your search.

"

Quote:

Your posts bring me plenty of happiness.

It is funny to see racists like you get so angry.

I have to apologize if I seem angry. It's just that supporters of fascism and tirtures as well as genocide and murders of political prisoners turn my stomach.

But, that's the way I am... I guess.

Quote:

No, you are a right winger because you are an anti-turk racist, and because you support other right-wingers such as Bin Laden!

You have lost it completely. You hate Greeks with a passion. And you're not very good at covering it up.

meanwhile you keep supporting a murderous regime, namely that of Turkey. That does not change. So yes you are qualified for being called a murderer of peoples.

As for Bin Laden. it's you he has a beef with :shrugs:

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 18:50

Plus, i think it pisses you off BIG TIME that Turkey is in shreds both economically as well as socially and politically while Greece is going forward at full speed.

Maybe your father is turk, or your mother or even maybe you have a turkish girlfriend or turkish friends like little Gianni does.

Whatever the reason I have observed that you go off the wall when this is brough up (not by me).

The fact that you dedicate all this time at spewing propaganda which cannot be sustained by any means shows that

_I have pissed you off big time (which is good since you're a fascist)

_you really love Turkey (which would be good if it didnt cloud your grasp of reality).

Which is it?

VetLegion · July 17, 2002, 18:51

actually, jenisaries (janjicari) were not only a greek-turkish phenomenon, turks stole children from mothers in the entire balkans. later, they would become a significant force in turkish politics, but their initial purpose was to be fanatical soldiers. and they were.

but it was a very very cruel practice. it fits to modern definition of genocide.

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 18:56

yes vetlegion, what you say is true.
sorry for not pointing this out as well but i cant think of everything

VetLegion · July 17, 2002, 18:58

I didnt mean to threadjack your flame war. carry on

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 19:00

hmmm, I dont know.. Shi looks pretty roasted

Of course, I never give up.

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 19:19

Here's the most recent news about your beloved Turkey's "democracy" murderer of peoples, Shi

Enjoy it as I know you will before you go to bed

Meanwhile, Greece will have one of the two higest GDP growths in the EU in 2002 and 2003.

try not to take it too hard oh, paragon of humanism...

and there's plenty more, my poor little Shi.

Quote:

Turkey loses another case at the European Court of Human Rights

London - The European Court of Human Rights has decided that Turkey pay
compensation to relatives of Kurdish villagers who disappeared after a
raid on a village by the Turkish army in 1994. Turkey is to pay 150
thousand euros in compensation.

On the 6th of May 1994, the Turkish army raided the village of Adrok
(Deveboyu) near the city of Amed. During the raid all villagers were
given an hour to collect their belongings before their village was to be
burned down.

Salih Orhan, who took the Turkish state to the court, told in his
statement that after the order, the soldiers burned down the whole
village, including his own house. The next day, the two brothers of
Salih Orhan, Selim and Hasan Orhan, and his son Cezayir Orhan and other
villagers, asked the Kulp Gendarme Headquarters for permission to stay
in the village until the end of the harvest season. The Gendarme
Headquarters accepted the request and allowed some families to return to
the destroyed village. On the 24th of May, Selim, Hasan and Cezayir
Orhan were detained by soldiers and were last seen alive in the
Gumussuyu arrest house. Since than no one has heard from the three
members of the Orhan family.

The court decided that Turkey had violated Orhan family's right to life
and freedom, protection of property, protection against torture and the
right to privacy. Thus, through its actions, Turkey had breached
articles 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 14, 34 and 1st Protocol's 1st article of the
European Convention of Human Rights. The prosecutors of the court also
put emphasis on the superficial approach of Turkey throughout the trial.
The prosecutors found no reason for the destruction of the houses.

VetLegion · July 17, 2002, 19:20

you are a scribomaniac

how many pages does your newspaper have? must be humdreds

VetLegion · July 17, 2002, 19:22

and ahem, a Greek speaks about human rights?
what would you know about that?

Greece has the worst human rights record in EU

(just so I troll you a little too. I m bored

)

Bereta_Eder · July 17, 2002, 19:24

If there's one thing Greeks are known for is writing

It is like second nature seeing Shi packing up and leaving in a hurry. And I was just getting warmed up