Optimal Number of Cities and Forbidden Palace Placement

Artifex · July 16, 2002, 21:09

What is the optimal number of cities for standard and large maps? After which corruption becomes crippling...

Where is the best place to put the forbidden palace. I heard that Forbidden palace doesn't help the type of corruption based on distance. SO I am kind of confused about the Forbidden Palace in General. I always put it on the other side of the continent I was on.

Jaybe · July 16, 2002, 23:19

Optimal # of Cities (default, versions 1.17 and (I believe) 1.21): Huge 36; Large 24; Std 18; Small 14; Tiny 12.

My understanding is that corruption based on distance is the FUNDAMENTAL value of the Forbidden Palace. The only other purpose is for assisting in cultural flip issues. I am using the term "corruption" as referring to both corruption and waste.

The ideal is to place the FP such that all your cities are as close as possible to either your palace or FP. Of course, that is not much guidance since you are supposedly going to be adding cities (by conquest, etc.). You can only build a FP once, but you can build a new palace. If I have (or anticipate) substantial settlements on another continent before I build FP, then I might build it there.

With version 1.21, you may get 50% or better production on another continent with courthouse and police station.

Kloreep · July 16, 2002, 23:24

I don't think the Forbidden Palace helps with culture flipping like the Palace (except for the culture it generates, which would be some help to the city it's built in).

Arrian · July 17, 2002, 11:32

The FP has no effect on culture flipping.

Basically, you want an empire shaped like a barbell, with the Palace and FP centered nicely with rings of cities surrounding them. Having a well-placed FP is like doubling your empire.

The FP only deals with distance corruption, as far as I know. It allows a second "core" area - like a duplicate of the area around your capitol.

-Arrian

kring · July 21, 2002, 12:34

Another thing you can do in building your FP and/or moving your Palace if the map doesn't lend itself to optimal placements, would be to build them where you get maximum benefit, like in the midst of two clumps of productive cities.

I usually try to do the barbell if the map accomodates me.

lockstep · July 21, 2002, 13:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
Optimal # of Cities (default, versions 1.17 and (I believe) 1.21): Huge 36; Large 24; Std 18; Small 14; Tiny 12.

It's only 32 for huge maps and 16 for standard maps (both v1.17 and v1.21).

Oerdin · July 21, 2002, 13:20

I was under the impression that flips become more probable wilrh greater distance from the capital. The FP would reduce the effective distance and thus reduce the likely hood of some cities flipping (amoung other things).

Kloreep · July 21, 2002, 19:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
I was under the impression that flips become more probable wilrh greater distance from the capital. The FP would reduce the effective distance and thus reduce the likely hood of some cities flipping (amoung other things).

IIRC, the FP only affects distance for corruption, not culture flips.

Check this thread. About halfway down, frankdog mentions he had his FP city itself flip! (What a wasted GL; poor guy.)

ALPHA WOLF 64 · July 21, 2002, 20:13

does the FP become available faster under 1.29? Seems like it shows up after the 10th city, not half the OCN.

statusperfect · July 22, 2002, 05:25

Quote:

The FP has no effect on culture flipping.

Whre di you get this info? I've been placing FP at the borders of my empire and then watched nearby AI cities flip. I alway use FP placement as a way of peaceful conquest. This has happened to me so many times i just cant believe it's an coincidence.

Rust · July 22, 2002, 05:35

Yea I just had a city flip to me from a civ with twice the culture. It was next to my FP. Though it was extremely far from their capita, maybe 6 city lengths. From my capital maybe 4 cities away.

Iskandar Reza · July 22, 2002, 05:40

Solution to flips - destroy the civ entirely. Enslave their people, burn their houses. MUAHAHAHAH

Kill the women and rape the horses, err, ah....

Thoth · July 22, 2002, 05:49

I believe the FP does have an effect on number of cities corruption. I've noticed in several games that after I get the "Our people want to build the Forbidden Palace...." message, additional cities increase corruption/waste in all cities. Once the FP is finished, this effect decreases. I'll keep a close eye on it next game.

DrSpike · July 22, 2002, 13:12

Check out Alexman's magnum opus on corruption. I'm sure it's mostly still relevant to 1.29, and IIRC the FP only affects corruption from the distance factor.

alexman · July 22, 2002, 14:03

Thanks Dr.!

I've been updating that thread periodically, so it should be up-to-date.

As for the effect of FP on number of cities corruption, it definitely has an effect in all governments except Communism. The cities around the FP have their rank (which determines corruption due to cities) start from 1 again. But this is not exactly the same as doubling the optimal number of cities because cities that are close to both the palace and the FP count against the totals for both.

For Communism I didn't see an effect when I was testing (1.16f) but Soren recently said that it doubles the optimal number. I'll have to check again.

player1 · July 22, 2002, 14:45

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
For Communism I didn't see an effect when I was testing (1.16f) but Soren recently said that it doubles the optimal number. I'll have to check again.

That's a patch 1.29f feature.

And I like it.

DrSpike · July 22, 2002, 14:54

Hmm, so perhaps communism might not suck quite so royally anymore.............