New Patch

The Dark Lord · July 17, 2002, 21:32

I know this has been addressed before, but now we need to know desperately.

On Friday, the new patch comes out in the US, and, maybe, elsewhere.

Do we use it? It seems like a good patch, but is it fair to use it for the Democracy game? And will new saves be compatible with old patches?

July 17, 2002, 21:37

Quote:

Originally posted by The Dark Lord
It seems like a good patch, but is it fair to use it for the Democracy game?

Any patch or official addition to Civ3 should be fair to the democracy game, because it's still Civ3. Plus, the less bugs we have, the better.

Nubclear · July 17, 2002, 21:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Edrix

Any patch or official addition to Civ3 should be fair to the democracy game, because it's still Civ3. Plus, the less bugs we have, the better.

I agree. We must upgrade. Less bugs, better game.....

Kramerman · July 17, 2002, 21:45

Will the new version be compatible, though, with the older versions that people in Europe and other places will be using until the new patch is available to them?

Kman

The Dark Lord · July 17, 2002, 21:46

What about those in other countries? They usually do not release their patches at the same time... or so I am told.

Same with Mac people. (HA! HAHA!!!) I wouldn't even mention THEM except I was one of them for a good long time and I still do have my Mac...which I used for Civ2 and may again one day.

My point is it would be unfair to upgrade if they could not...especially if our ministers do not live in the good ole' US of A.

Captain · July 17, 2002, 21:58

can't they also download the patch from civ3.com or apolyton?

Ninot · July 17, 2002, 22:41

this needs polling, but currently im against patching if it keeps our European friends out of the mix

Robber Baron · July 17, 2002, 22:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot
this needs polling, but currently im against patching if it keeps our European friends out of the mix

Agreed. (One of the things I love about this game is imagining people around the globe checking in, time zone by time zone, as the planet spins.)

Kramerman · July 17, 2002, 22:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain
can't they also download the patch from civ3.com or apolyton?

People who have the game, in say France, have a French version of the game. For some reason the programming is diffrent, I guess, becuase typically differnt versions are not compatible with each other. In other words, the U.S. patch probably would cause a French or German game to crash if they tried to run it with their French or German version.

Kman

Jon Shafer · July 17, 2002, 22:57

Unless there's a simultaneous release of patches for all locals of the world, then it won't be possible for some people to load up the game. A simultaneous release is highly unlikely, but we'll see.

Captain · July 17, 2002, 22:58

Oh, I see.
Ok, then I'm against, if it prevents some of our citizens from playing. That wouldn't be fair.

Kramerman · July 17, 2002, 23:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Robber Baron

Agreed. (One of the things I love about this game is imagining people around the globe checking in, time zone by time zone, as the planet spins.)

In the central time zone I'm just getting up from bed after most people have eaten lunch, and I go to bed after they've been asleep for hours - at least during the summer. Im probably on the same schedual as someone in, oh... i dunno.. Hawaii perhaps...

Kman

Kramerman · July 17, 2002, 23:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
Unless there's a simultaneous release of patches for all locals of the world, then it won't be possible for some people to load up the game. A simultaneous release is highly unlikely, but we'll see.

I heard Japan just got that last patch version (v1.21 I believe) that we've had for months, just a couple of weeks ago. So if history repeats itself, and it always does, then We will be without the latest patch for awhile, because I for see it being like a few weeks before the Euros get it. I guess once the majority of or population can get it or something, then we can upgrade. We shall poll...

Kman

Ninot · July 17, 2002, 23:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman

I heard Japan just got that last patch version (v1.21 I believe) that we've had for months, just a couple of weeks ago. So if history repeats itself, and it always does, then We will be without the latest patch for awhile, because I for see it being like a few weeks before the Euros get it. I guess once the majority of or population can get it or something, then we can upgrade. We shall poll...

Kman

personally, i might install a second civilization 3 into my PC, put the latest patch there, and ill have my current civ3 just for demogames

Spiffor · July 17, 2002, 23:08

We'll probably have a majority in favor of upgrading. Question is : What majority do we need to officially upgrade ? Should we need a 51% majority, at the risk of letting up to 49% of people out of the loop ? Should we need a 67% majority ? 75% majority ?
Personnaly, I favor a 67% majority, as it doesn't hinder us from updating too much, without frustrating too many people.

I also think we should wait some days after the patch is released before polling : remember, a patch almost always had problems the very day it was out (some kind of a tradition at Firaxis

). And polling few days after the patch is out will let us profit from the feedback from users.

Ninot · July 17, 2002, 23:13

I would favor a 75%

Many people will want to patch ahead.. but we must NOT forge ahead if our Euro and Asian buddies are gonna be left in the dark.
We need something more than decisive, but super-cisive!

Robber Baron · July 17, 2002, 23:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
We'll probably have a majority in favor of upgrading. Question is : What majority do we need to officially upgrade ? Should we need a 51% majority, at the risk of letting up to 49% of people out of the loop ? Should we need a 67% majority ? 75% majority ?

Seems like a question this basic (since it amounts to excluding people from the game) amounts to something akin to a constitutional question. I'd say a 67% majority or higher.

Kramerman · July 17, 2002, 23:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
We'll probably have a majority in favor of upgrading. Question is : What majority do we need to officially upgrade ? Should we need a 51% majority, at the risk of letting up to 49% of people out of the loop ? Should we need a 67% majority ? 75% majority ?
Personnaly, I favor a 67% majority, as it doesn't hinder us from updating too much, without frustrating too many people.

I also think we should wait some days after the patch is released before polling : remember, a patch almost always had problems the very day it was out (some kind of a tradition at Firaxis

). And polling few days after the patch is out will let us profit from the feedback from users.

We can maybe let our to be supreme court find some solution

. I'll have to go back and see if some how this can fit in their jurisdiction, but it would certaily be a great field test of our government's next addition.

Kman

For those who would point out the supreme court may not come into being, that I am being presumptious, so be it. I am fully confident the bill will be ratified into an ammendment

Robber Baron · July 17, 2002, 23:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman
I'll have to go back and see if some how this can fit in their jurisdiction ...

One possible argument for jurisdiction: using the patch would effectively bar citizens from playing the game.

Spiffor · July 17, 2002, 23:34

Kramerman :
I know you love our soon-to-be-born court, but please : don't give such an immense power to 5 people. Don't forget : if we decide to patch, those who can't will be out of the game.
I finally agree with Ninot such a decision should be met by a 75% majority. We can't allow many people to be fired from the game. And we definitely can't give such an immense power to justices, the same way we can't give it to ministers.

Captain · July 17, 2002, 23:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Robber Baron

One possible argument for jurisdiction: using the patch would effectively bar citizens from playing the game.

We would need to have a Bill of Rights first. Convention says we shouldn't bar citizens from playing (esp if it's not their fault), but it'd be nice to have this in the COL.

civman's Bill of Rights needs some work, but that's why he put it up for discussion. I estimate at least a few days for public opinon to gather and more ideas to develop and be refined, then another few days for the poll. [shameless plug] everyone go join that discussion and make sure no one gets left out! [/shameless plug]

as it stands, I support the 75% requirement, but I don't know what sort of legal basis that has. If the public doesn't support this and an early patching majority allows this travesty of justice, then the President should just make a "Declaration" and hope the ministers back it enough to push it through until we get a Bill of Rights.

Kramerman · July 17, 2002, 23:44

Quote:

I finally agree with Ninot such a decision should be met by a 75% majority. We can't allow many people to be fired from the game. And we definitely can't give such an immense power to justices, the same way we can't give it to ministers.

Remeber our checks and balances? The court can be over ridden if an unacceptable decision is made by the court. And remeber, they are on our team, they want to do the best for Apolytonia (or so they should), besides, they wouldn't want to black mark their political carrier by barring to many people from the game.

Kman

EDIT: I personally think 75% is the best answer myself

and don't really care how this problem will be solved, as long as it is done so satisfactorily

Aggie · July 18, 2002, 00:12

Looking at the readme, the patch has little real effect on the civ3 game, most has to do with the editor. Maybe someone can ask at the chat for the patch if the other versions can use this or will the saves be compatable. In that case some patched and some not would be ok.
For short if the person actually playing can play with patch and then send the game to non patch people, we don't have a problem. However I say if anybody is unable to play with the new patch we all have to go patchless. I just seems like the right thing to do.
Aggie

Jon Shafer · July 18, 2002, 00:14

I don't think we should patch it until all members have access to 1.29f.

Barring someone from the game isn't worth fixing a few bugs, IMO.

Sheik · July 18, 2002, 00:15

We must not upgrade if upgrading means people not located in United States can't play. We should have some members in Europe try to patch their game and they can give us the results.

theViking · July 18, 2002, 02:39

I have an idea, why cannot the game be played on both systems, if the President’s system is upgraded with the patch, somebody can play the same moves on the old system afterwards. Then everybody should be able to get the save files for their system and if something goes wrong in the new system we have a backup.

MrWhereItsAt · July 18, 2002, 02:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot
we must NOT forge ahead if our Euro and Asian buddies are gonna be left in the dark.

I LOVE how everyone generalises this way - I must be Asian!

I urge everyone to NOT upgrade to the patch for the official game. The version we have at the moment is fairly stable (at least compared with the first couple of versions), and even though I am not personally disadvantaged (US patch seems to work for me), it would annoy me to see so many unable to open the game or run for Government if they wanted to.

Think of the good of everyone - we have got used to this version, and until we can all upgrade, let's keep it that way!

Viking - perhaps the new patch fiddles with some settings that will be sufficiently different between the two games to cause problems. Moreover, this requires performing battles twice - with certainly different results in some circumstances. Then we have two games being played,

and then we really COULD have two Presidents. Hey!

Just kidding.

mtgillespie · July 18, 2002, 06:16

Why not post an unofficial poll, on which version of Civ people are using. Don't forget, it's not a US patch, it's an english language version patch. Would our savegame work with a foreign language version of the game anyway? If not, everyone who is playing the game is doing so on and english language version, and by definition can patch at the same time.

civman2000 · July 18, 2002, 08:33

1. I will add a clause about patches to the Bill of Rights asap!
2. i will personally get the patch, as I do not have to play the game. It is very unfortunate thatit has to come out later outside the US.

Jon Shafer · July 18, 2002, 09:40

I still say that unless everyone can play, it's grossly unfair to exclude someone from playing the game for any reason.