The Senate: 2nd Session

GoodFella · July 18, 2002, 21:34

Its a new term entering a new era for our empire, so I thought I'd take this oppuratunity to open up a new senate thread. Basically come in here to rant, propose new ideas, discuss things, etc.

UnOrthOdOx · July 18, 2002, 21:56

Interesting to see the minor problems with the new administration. Now is the time to reflect and formulate a plan to make transition smooth for the next group.

I understand that two ministers were absent, and that trade was not finalized before chat. Was not this the job of the VP? To take over for absent ministers if the pres was there?

I cannot comment much as I was not there, but I want to hear more on what went wrong so we cn fix in the future.

Ninot · July 18, 2002, 22:04

VP could not be present.. i havent looked into why yet.

UnOrthOdOx · July 18, 2002, 22:34

Hm, another case could be made for aids here...though I am concerned with having someone with official control who was not voted in by the people...

Kramerman · July 18, 2002, 23:15

A major concern right now, which is being discussed on another thread, is the new patch issue. I will look into all the possible versions of this game (english, spanish, french, etc) because I don't know what they all are, and then if an unofficial poll has not been set up yet, then I'll do it. This, I think, would be a good way for us to see the distribution of our population over the different versions of the game and help us make our future decisions on the matter.
I step dowm form the floor.

Kman

Kramerman · July 19, 2002, 02:05

Im still looking for the different versions of the game out there. Haven't really found any good info yet, but I've asked for some help in some of the other civ 3 forums. I should have an unofficial poll up and running by tomarrow afternoon if nobody else has put one up yet.

GoodFella · July 20, 2002, 23:39

Thought I'd bring up an important issue here: whether or not to edit, delete, and change words from our Constitution or Code of Laws (whichever you prefer) everytime its amended.

I think allowing this is would be a horrible mistake. I probably can't express myself as well others, such as Unorthadox, have but here it is.

I feel it allows too much potential abuse of power, it allows rewriting history ala 1984 style IMO (ok that's a little extreme, but as I said I'm not the most eloquent of speakers), and it just seems ludicrous to me that we have to make a new one and get it approved everytime we amend it.

I don't know, perhaps someone can say it better, but I for one am against it.

Timeline · July 21, 2002, 00:55

*Vice President Timeline takes the floor*

Hi, to address some issues raised:

Quote:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Interesting to see the minor problems with the new administration.

Unorthodox: No administration is going to be perfect. Yes, we have minor problems, but nothing compared to the VP resigning and Historian being inactive. I feel we are doing fairly well.

Quote:

I understand that two ministers were absent, and that trade was not finalized before chat. Was not this the job of the VP? To take over for absent ministers if the pres was there?

I do not know anything about this chat, because as was mentioned I was not there. I know nothing about the VP taking over for other ministers, although it could be done, I suppose.

Carrying out previously issued orders by a minister, when the minister is unable to make a turnchat, would be fine. But the VP stepping in and making decisions for a Ministry, just because the Minister is not present, I don't see that happening, or at least, it's something I would not do.

In this situation I would either poll the present members of the turnchat, or delay the turnchat to hold a poll (depending on how many turns we already played).

The duty of controlling Ministries when the Minister is absent defaults to the President, because he is the one playing the game.

This is true unless:

The Minister specifcally asked someone els to take over for him.
The Minister left standing orders which Must be followed.

Quote:

I cannot comment much as I was not there, but I want to hear more on what went wrong so we cn fix in the future.

As would I. Would any members present care to report to the Senate on what transpired during this turnchat? Information on who was there would be good also.

As a side note, I will not be at today's turnchat (Sunday) nor will I be present at any weekend turnchat because I work on the weekends.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman
A major concern right now, which is being discussed on another thread, is the new patch issue. I will look into all the possible versions of this game (english, spanish, french, etc) because I don't know what they all are, and then if an unofficial poll has not been set up yet, then I'll do it.
Kman

Kramerman, this would be most appreciated! Until everyone has access to the patch in their version, however, we will most likely stay with V1.21f. It should not be long until all game versions are updated, and if the majority is willing, we can then switch to V1.29f.

Quote:

Originally posted by GoodFella
Thought I'd bring up an important issue here: whether or not to edit, delete, and change words from our Constitution or Code of Laws (whichever you prefer) everytime its amended.

Goodfella, As you are no doubt aware, this is already being voted on here.

I advise everyone to wait until this poll is over before starting more polls. If this poll fails to obtain a 2/3 for not allowing rewording/editing, then the discussion will likely remain open, and I know for myself I will have a few suggestions which will hopefully serve as a good compromise for all involved.

Thank you for your time, I yield the floor.

Kramerman · July 21, 2002, 02:12

*citizen Kramerman takes the floor*
*citizen Kramerman yields the floor*
*citizen Kramerman takes the floor*
*citizen Kramerman yields the floor*
*citizen Kramerman takes ... a sip of water, and then takes the floor*
*citizen Kramerman sits down, scratches himself, then yields the floor*

Citizen Kramerman, off the record, would like to thank timeline for his 'report'. It was quite informativew on the Administrations current status.

Kman

Ninot · July 21, 2002, 02:28

*President Ninot takes the floor*

Good mourning all, I have come as a witness to the turnchat where some problems did arise.

Quote:

As would I. Would any members present care to report to the Senate on what transpired during this turnchat? Information on who was there would be good also.

I can report what transpired, but to see who was there, i can only refer you to the logs of the chat, as my memory of names has never been amazing.

The main difficulties of the turnchat on Thursday were that we did not have solid trades from the start. Every one of the trades had to be decided upon consensus. This was not exactly easy or quick, as every deal had to be optimized for our pleasure, and then put to a vote. When I believe we had something upwards of 10 deals, it is evident that the turn would not be finnished in under 40 minutes.

But this problem could have been nullified, along with another problem, if we had the propper ministers present. Essential ministers such as the SMC and FAM could have doubled our tripled the ammount of turns completed on Thursday, because with them, there would be no need for any debate whatsoever for anything we did. But without them, we had to vote on every little move and deal. The result? 3 turns complete in 90 minutes.

I would hope this problem will not repeat for today's turnchat, where no where near as many deals should arise, and most of our military units have orders already.

My only concern for the upcoming chats, however, is that we have a better turnout of ministers that are essential to turn-by turn decisions. That, and that our FAM is able to get very strict and to the point plans for how he wants his deals performed, rather than outlines that are in need of optimization and such.

Oh, and here is an ignorant question, how much more military buildup before our troops move out for war?

I thank you for your time Senators.

*President Ninot yields the floor*

kring · July 21, 2002, 03:20

Citizen kring takes the floor.

While I don't own a Mac, are there Mac owners in our citizenship? Since it would be unfair to them if we upgrade to the patch without them. Also, potential citizens that join that do own a Mac. Since MacSoft is not sure IF they will release the 1.29f patch for Mac.

Citizen kring yields the floor.

GoodFella · July 21, 2002, 03:31

*GoodFella shoves away citizen trying to take the floor*

Ahem, Citizen Kring...

I don't believe we'll be updating to 1.29 for at least a long time so no need to worry about that yet.

Now onto matters of public works...

Right now I am focusing on preparing the land surrounding Tassagrad and Banana H.Q. for when the soon grow. Also about to grow on the other side of Apolytonian Plains is Termina. It is highly likely that this will cause unhappiness though. I was wondering if luxuries will be raised to negate this, or if perhaps building another worker could be considered? Thankyou, and I step down from the floor.

UnOrthOdOx · July 24, 2002, 15:40

*UnOrthOdOx takes the floor, rescuing this from page three death*

My fellow citizens, what is happening here?!?!

Two pages full of nothing but government polls, discussion, endless debating. Where is the War Academy, the Thinkers Guild, The (however you spell that Diplomacy thing) Institute? Bring me back THE GAME!!!

Look what our endless debating over laws has brought. Look carefully at the threads, you will notice a decrease in actual users. PEOPLE DON'T CARE THAT MUCH!!! It took me time to realize this as well. MrWIA and others were right, we should have let Anarchy reign. Then at least we would have been focused on our opponents and not the wording and rewording and ammending of the blasted CoL until it is a binding, suffocating document that tells us when and where we can even breathe.

There is nothing to talk about, you say? WE WILL LIKELY DECLARE WAR NEXT TURNCHAT! Two days away. It has been quite a while before I have seen any discussion along these lines. We could be planning all kinds of things. How many cities to take, when to ask for peace, what should we prioritize on acquiring, should we attack Philly and hope to get NY for peace(thereby getting our army closer to France in the process), What to do if NY becomes the next capital, wait till it hits culture level 2 so we can capture? Not to mention possible local concerns. Who should be the first embassy, where should that next settler go, how soon do we build boats, build order for next 20 turns. We had detailed plans heading into this war, I have not seen many come out for post war. Get these think tanks up and running, and lets get back to discussing the GAME!!!

OPD · July 24, 2002, 16:37

*OPD takes the floor and busts a few moves Travolta style*

Perhaps this thread should be topped then.
Especially considering some of the other threads that are topped like that census thing.

In terms of the upcoming war I'm not to sure but I belive that we are primarily attacking with 6 archers (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm a bit uneasy about this and think that there is a possiblility that this won't be enough. Say the US had 3 spearmen and walls in their capital? Overkill should be favoured just in case as if this attack fails to take any cities we are prity much doomed. Doomed I say!

Ninot · July 24, 2002, 17:02

*President Ninot takes the floor*

No offense to the generally good-willed senators of this group, but we currently have more topped threads then I would wish to see. This is a discussion poll, and is not any more or less important than any other to be very frank. I request it not be topped.

And, for that matter, I am going to look into some polls that have been topped which perhaps should be taken down. In perticular, i name the CF-embasy as a needlessly topped thread. Other than a polite hello, it doesnt have any true reasons to be topped.

*Ninot yields the floor*

Kloreep · July 24, 2002, 17:12

*Kloreep takes the floor*

On the topic of a cluttered forum, are subforums dead? IIRC, Trip said a while ago that the admins weren't exactly thrilled at the idea, but he didn't mention why that was (if they told him).

*Kloreep yields the floor*

OPD · July 24, 2002, 19:33

*OPD takes the floor*

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot
*President Ninot takes the floor*

No offense to the generally good-willed senators of this group, but we currently have more topped threads then I would wish to see. This is a discussion poll, and is not any more or less important than any other to be very frank. I request it not be topped.

And, for that matter, I am going to look into some polls that have been topped which perhaps should be taken down. In perticular, i name the CF-embasy as a needlessly topped thread. Other than a polite hello, it doesnt have any true reasons to be topped.

*Ninot yields the floor*

Yeah I prity much disagree with everything you've said here. (even if it's against my better judement to disagree with the pres.)

In particualr I think that this thread should definately be topped.
There are alot of threads and it does take alot of time to keep up with whats going on but perhaps if people proposed or quered things in here instead of strating a new thread there wouldn't be so many.
Also what does a citizen do if he/she has a simple question thats to small for a new thread or what if people are uneasy about starting new threads I know I was when I first joined.

This thread should be the voice of the people.
Where else can the pres or ministers converse with or answer to the people that voted them in.

Apololgies for the ranting nature I've had a few drinks.

OPD · July 24, 2002, 19:36

I'd also like to hear whether the pres or SMC thinks that 6 archers will be enough?

kring · July 24, 2002, 19:39

*Citizen kring takes the floor.

I agree we have way too much topped. More than a couple of things topped is clutter.

I am also concerned that our military attack won't be strong enough. I have seen enough goofy odds in the game to know we could fail; and if we fail, we will fall. That must not be allowed. We need a strong attack to be decisive.

I also wonder about sub-fora, they would help tremendously; you could have one just for polls!

*Citizen kring yields the floor while thinking of changing his name to Citizen Kane*

Ninot · July 24, 2002, 20:03

Quote:

Originally posted by OPD

This thread should be the voice of the people.
Where else can the pres or ministers converse with or answer to the people that voted them in.

*Ninot takes the floor*

To answer OPD in one word: anywhere

I dont place ANY discussion in importance above any other discussion. I checkem all equally, and respond to them as I feel is needed. In my opinion, the only threads that should be topped are the ones with hard info that should be kept the most accesible at all times.

A discussion about ANOTHER demo game is not this kind of info. A common discussion with the priveldege to be named "The Senate" is no better than a common discussion with any other name.

All of the common discussions, Phonetica and Senate threads included, should flow with the normal threads. Elections, the Code of Laws, and other informations that should be handy are the only things we need topped. But if half the first page were topped, that would create two problems.

1: Common un-topped threads would cycle to the less-looked at second page
2: threads that are topped because they are VITALLY important will be ignored because topped threads would become more common.

I want this forum to be convenient to the average citizen who visits once a day. If topped threads are making threads fall to the back pages faster than citizens can check them, that is detrimental, and I won't have it.

Spiffor · July 24, 2002, 20:21

*Spiffor applauses at Ninot from his seat*

UnOrthOdOx · July 24, 2002, 22:45

Yeah, this is meant to bemore of a venting thread than a place for matters of dire importance that need the minister's attention. Basically, come here, air your greivances, and let someone reply. It would get WAY too confusing to have the important stuff in here, there are too many topics. Just vent and rant in here. It's not that hard to do a search and find it from a few pages back, like I did rather than starting a new thread on the subject since there are enough threads running around IMO. And the fewer topped, the better. Good threads top themselves.

Oh, and I applaud Ninot and stand to do it.

Kramerman · July 24, 2002, 23:29

*citizen Kramerman takes the floor*

I am another concerned citizen that 6 archers wil be not enough, if this is indeed the case. America is in the Jungle, as I recall, and though the jungle sucks at almost everything useful, it gives a huge defensive bonus. On top of the freak odds of tanks losing to spearman, and such, I show my concern. There should be a minimum of 4 archers per city we plan to attack, if we want to all but garuntee success. And, like kring pointed out, we need success. As failure in our attacks may very well spell our doom. Doom. DOOM!!!

*citizen kramerman lets out a loud, wet fart while yeilding the floor. No one else seems to want to take the floor*

Captain · July 25, 2002, 00:19

Citizen "Major" Captain puts down newspaper The Jungle Gazette he was reading, and takes the floor.

"On the question of war, war aims, and war plans... where is our esteemed SMC? Or War Academy staff? Or the Machiavelli Institute staff?"

Floor for sale to highest bidder, or free to next poster.

Kramerman · July 25, 2002, 00:26

*Citizen Kramerman takes a whiff of the floor, and reluctantly takes it*

I am a member of the war academy. Though, im not real active. I dunno even what they do there. Probably Spartan orgies or something

...

*...yields the floor*

GoodFella · July 25, 2002, 01:01

*GoodFella starts to take the floor but after smelling the wet fart sits back down*

GoodFella · July 25, 2002, 01:09

*GoodFella takes a deep breath and decides to get it over with*

I believe we will also being building reinforcements to meet up with the six archers at the second target.

Right now I am more concerned with what we will do after the war. I believe that expanding North FAST with just settlers, spearmen, and temples would be the best move, then prepare for an early Medieval war.

Also, in case no one doesn't know by now, I have made a poll for the citizens to selecet either Sir Ralph, UberKrux, or Spiffor (or Banana if you have any qualms) as a temporary replacement for the next two turnchats. So if you haven;t gone there ye...

*GoodFella accidently takes a whiff and passes out*

Kramerman · July 25, 2002, 01:52

*citizen Kramerman laughs out loud at GoodFella, taking his shoes while hes past out, then shoves his body out of the way so he can take the floor*

Quote:

Right now I am more concerned with what we will do after the war. I believe that expanding North FAST with just settlers, spearmen, and temples would be the best move, then prepare for an early Medieval war.

This, as I said before, is a good idea from my experience and wisdom of playing civ iii.

*...yields the floor*

UnOrthOdOx · July 25, 2002, 10:06

*UnOrthOdOx steps over the body of GoodFella, and beckons some aids to remove it, then take the floor*

Ah, my builder friends, 6 archers should be more than enough to take the first city. There will be several more ready to aid in the capture of the second city. I understand your misgivings, I was once a builder too, but I have seen how it works, and we are in good hands. Trust in Krux!

GodKing · July 25, 2002, 10:51

GodKing lights a candle. Places a clip on his nose. Then proceeds to trip over Ortho's flunkies that are removing the naked Mr. GoodFella.....

After getting up, Godking proceeds to dismantle the floor, so that he may trade it to some Romans for some good cloth.