Some ideas

[Timchy]

Because I don't know how to mod CTPII (I'm trying to learn now) it's a bit unfair to tell you guyz, experinced modders, what to do. But I have some sugestions; tell me what you think:

1.) There shold be a possibility to free slaves you have taken by yourself. Because if you are building The Emancipation Act you are actually hurting your own growth. When the act is completed, you suffer.

2.) If you enact communism your religious buildings (such as basilica) should lose say half its productive value. If before they improved the happyness by 3 now they should improve it only by 1. There shold also be alternative buildings and maybe even a wonder to conpensate for the lose. The wonder could be cenureship, whitch would improve the happyness raiting say by 4, but would worsen the science output by 20%.

3.) There should be a special modul for enacting laws. Like in the case of the Emancipation wonder (point 1) and different. When changing goverments there should be some consiquence. For instance if you embarked from democracy to communism the modul would give you a choice of: nationalising private property (whitch would give you a money boost equal to the number of capitalistic buildings you own (basilica, printing press,...) but lower your turn intake of money. It would also lower the happyness rating and lower your regard among democratic goverments) or leaving it as it is. Or/and when coming from any goverment system to communism you the modul would give you an option of a "clean sweep" (you would kill all the possibly dangerous individuals, therefore making harder for enemy spyes to infiltrate and because you silenced all your opponents the happyness rating would improve). This changes would be for any form of govermental change (from tyrany to monarchy, republic,... and thy could be different (when comming from fascism to democracy there would be no need to denacionalise all the nationalised buildings, when coming form communism to democracy there would)). If anyone decides to make this modul I would be happy to give ideas for these changes, orders.

4.) There should be more types of alliances. Like military (NATO) in whitch the two or more partyes would attack a common foe if needed, economical (European Union) in whitch two or more countries would get more money from trade and simbolical (like the UN) in whitch choices would be made (if you want to attack a nation without the permission of this council the regard for your nation would worsen). In military alliances you could decide the intensity of that perticular alliance (real-time map exchange, spy info, right of passage of military units and right of passage of non-military units. All this choces would be up to the player).

5.) Trade taxation. If trade between two nations was made over the territory of a third county it would get come of the trade rout's money. The player could decied how high the toll would be in procentage.

6.) Liberation movements. If you conquered cities from an enemy, there would be a chance that a liberation movement bursts out.

7.) The regard among nation with same goverments should be higher than with thouse with different.

This is it for the time being. Like you can see I have a lot of ideas and no clue how to put them into reality. Can someone please make a point to point explanation if the point in question is even possible to do/make. Thank you. If anyone decides to do any of the things listed here I would be most happy to help with ideas, or if you teach me how, with programming.

[centrifuge]

These are all very good suggestions, espescially the part about being able to free the slaves. I was wishing that there was some way to do this in the last tournament game that I played. However, if history is to be any sort of model, emancipating slaves should cause some sort of rebellion. For example, good ol' Abe Lincoln called for an emancipation act, and half the United States revolted.

[Martin Gühmann]

Since you posted a similar thread in the Civ3 forum I have to reply.

Originally posted by Timchy
1.) There shold be a possibility to free slaves you have taken by yourself. Because if you are building The Emancipation Act you are actually hurting your own growth. When the act is completed, you suffer.

Yes also your own slaves will be freed (actual I have no idea if I get in this case the unhappiness problem, too), but in the long term it is good for you, because you don't need a garrision in your city anymore to prevent a slave uprising. You could remove the NoSlaves tag from the UNIT_ABOLITIONIST description in the unit.txt, and I guess you can build Abolitionists although you have slaves and could free your own slaves. But to do it in this way and without any limits it seems to me to powerfull to get new free citiziens for my cities. Another possibility would be to trigger this at a government change via slic. So this is possible in one or another way.

Originally posted by Timchy
2.) If you enact communism your religious buildings (such as basilica) should lose say half its productive value. If before they improved the happyness by 3 now they should improve it only by 1. There shold also be alternative buildings and maybe even a wonder to conpensate for the lose. The wonder could be cenureship, whitch would improve the happyness raiting say by 4, but would worsen the science output by 20%.

Here the mod functions of slic could be use but also the other happiness modifing function, a more effective to realize these effect would be to modify the government.txt. (Actual science output of communism isn't so good in the default game.) You could also tweak the happiness of communism presuming it isn't already done by Activision. Of course this is a global effect and not an effect on one building.

Originally posted by Timchy
4.) There should be more types of alliances. Like military (NATO) in whitch the two or more partyes would attack a common foe if needed, economical (European Union) in whitch two or more countries would get more money from trade and simbolical (like the UN) in whitch choices would be made (if you want to attack a nation without the permission of this council the regard for your nation would worsen). In military alliances you could decide the intensity of that perticular alliance (real-time map exchange, spy info, right of passage of military units and right of passage of non-military units. All this choces would be up to the player).

Just establish an embassy and you can establish alliances and trade pacts, unfortunatly I don't know if a trade pact increases the income from the trade between these two civs. For the alliances I would say something like this includes the right of passage also for military units. I think it doesn't hurt your regard if you go with a civilian unit into foreign land, but if the regard with this foreign nation is to low you have to fear that your civilian is killed. For the map exange that could be done once per turn.

Originally posted by Timchy
5.) Trade taxation. If trade between two nations was made over the territory of a third county it would get come of the trade rout's money. The player could decied how high the toll would be in procentage.

I think this is not possible I can't redirect trade routes like in CTP1, I just can pirate trade routes but I have no idea how I can locate them with slic.

Originally posted by Timchy
6.) Liberation movements. If you conquered cities from an enemy, there would be a chance that a liberation movement bursts out.

That's also possible via slic, the the example of guerillas in MedPack2.

Originally posted by Timchy
7.) The regard among nation with same goverments should be higher than with thouse with different.

That is also possible, once you change governement you could give a regard loss towards all the other civs with different governments.

And here one from Your Civ3 thread.

Originally posted by Timchy
5.) Different types of trade. Not only trading resources but also buying units. If you are a peaceful nation, rich, but in danger of an assault you could buy units from another civ.

I don't know if you can do it in Civ3, but I think probably not. But this is in CTP2 possible. An example would be Dale's withdraw script were a unit is disbanded on the map replaced by another unit somewhere else on the map, that shouldn't be a problem replace it by a unit with different nationalty. Only the details how do you realize it should be the problem, but in general this is possible.

-Martin

[Immortal Wombat]

That is also possible, once you change governement you could give a regard loss towards all the other civs with different governments.

Actually, I don't think it is. I've never been able to access player's governments via SLIC, much to my annoyance.

[Peter Triggs]

IW,

IIRC, I noticed a couple of weeks ago that Winnie did this indirectly by checking to see if the AI player has the advance that enables the Government.

Mind you, that won't work for Humans.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

Actually, I don't think it is. I've never been able to access player's governments via SLIC, much to my annoyance.

Just checked the slic documentation, and it doesn't look very good, I thought there is an event that occurs when the government is changed. But I only found this:

BeginTurnGovernment(int_t)
Handle government changes

The BeginTurn suggests that this event occurs every turn, so it seems to check if there is a need to change the government and if yes it will do so.

This one is also not very easy to use, but it could be possible to use:

player.govttype - The player's government in string form.
What concerns is the government in string form, the problem here is how does look the string: Is it the name of the government or the internal the name of the string. Here we need to get the correct string from the government database and then we have to hope that string comparision works with just using ==.

-Martin

[Immortal Wombat]

IIRC, I noticed a couple of weeks ago that Winnie did this indirectly by checking to see if the AI player has the advance that enables the Government

Where was that? I did the same for the mergeciv code I think, based on the Cradle setup.

Martin, if that works, hooray! But if Winnie didn't use it, I'm doubtful.
The human thing can be set by a messagebox triggered on the BeginTurnGovernment event. "Which government are you using?"

[Peter Triggs]

It comes back to me now. Here's the handler I noticed:

//any govt adv discd

HandleEvent(GrantAdvance) 'TNewGovt' post {
	if(IsHumanPlayer(player[0])) {
		advance[0] = value[0];
		if(advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_MONARCHY)
		|| advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_THEOLOGY)
		|| advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_BUREAUCRACY)
		|| advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_DEMOCRACY)
		|| advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_COMMUNISM)
		|| advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_FASCISM)
		|| advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_ECOTOPIA)
		|| advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_CORPORATE_REPUBLIC)
		|| advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_TECHNOCRACY)
		|| advance[0].type == AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_VIRTUAL_DEMOCRACY)) {
			Message(player[0], 'TMNewGovt');
			DisableTrigger('TNewGovt');
		}
	}
}

When I saw it I thought "Something like that could be used to determine what Government a player is currently in." Which is, in fact, more or less what you did in your MergeCiv code:

int_f GetAge(int_t thePlayer) {
int_t	tmpPlayer;
	tmpPlayer = thePlayer;

	if (HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_VIRTUAL_DEMOCRACY) && HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_ECOTOPIA)) {			// if player has both diamond govs possible,
		CityLimit = 60;	// they will be using one of them
	} elseif (HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_TECHNOCRACY) && HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_CORPORATE_REPUBLIC)) {		// etc.
		CityLimit = 45;
	} elseif (HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_DEMOCRACY)){
		if(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_COMMUNISM) || HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_FASCISM)) {
			CityLimit = 35;
		}
	} elseif (HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_MONARCHY)){
		if(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_THEOCRACY) || HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_BUREAUCRACY)) {
			CityLimit = 20;
		}
	} else {								
		CityLimit = 10;							
	}
	return CityLimit;
}

Was there a problem with it?

[Immortal Wombat]

It never got tested very rigorously. The rest of the code went belly-up, and I lost momentum on it.

Actually, that function wasn't the one I was thinking of, I did a huge one linked to the AI personalities.

int_f	GetCityLimits(int_t	AIPlayer){
	int_t	tmpPlayer;
	tmpPlayer = AIPlayer;
	
	// ECOTOPIAN

	if(IsEcotopian(tmpPlayer)){
		if(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_ECOTOPIA)){ 
			return 70;
		}
		elseif(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_DEMOCRACY)){ 
			return 50;
		}
		elseif(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_THEOLOGY)){
			return 40;
		}
		elseif(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_TRIBUNAL_EMPIRE)){ 
			return 30;
		}
		elseif(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_DICTATORSHIP)){
			return 25;
		}
		elseif(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_REPUBLIC)){
			return 20;
		}
		elseif(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_CITY_STATE)){
			return 15;
		}
		elseif(HasAdvance(tmpPlayer, ID_ADVANCE_DYNASTY)){
			return 10;
		}
		else{
			return 10;
		}
	}

And so on for all the personalities...

I don't see why it shouldn't work, except during a few turns of anarchy.

[Peter Triggs]

I wish I'd logged on an hour and a half ago.

It looks like I missed that version of MergeCiv and I've just spent the past hour and a half coming to exactly the same conclusion that you arrived at. It looks to me like that's the best solution we're going to get.

Timchy,

Sorry for highjacking your thread but this is something that's been bugging IW and me for ages and your suggestion brought it up again.

[HuangShang]

Originally posted by Timchy
Because I don't know how to mod CTPII (I'm trying to learn now) it's a bit unfair to tell you guyz, experinced modders, what to do. But I have some sugestions; tell me what you think:

1.) I really likeed this idea about slavery

2.) im indifferent on this. i don't see why its too important

3.)

4.) There is a "military (NATO) in whitch the two or more partyes would attack a common foe if needed"
And there is a "economical in which two or more countries would get more money from trade"
the last two are good... but i don't know the modders can add it

5.) some one already gave a suficent comment

6.) don't MM2 and WaW have that?... i know MM2 does

7.) don't WaW have that?