July 29, 2002, 13:00
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#1
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Prince
Local Time: 06:08
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 698
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Medieval Infantry
In the Firaxis Chat a Medieval Infantry unit was mentioned. It seemed to have preliminary statistics 4/2/1.
What do we know about it?
Shouldn't it be called "Man-at-Arms" or something?
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July 29, 2002, 13:03
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#2
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Prince
Local Time: 23:08
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Location: reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Posts: 560
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I think they're still looking for a permanent name, I'm sure they'll see yours. 
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July 29, 2002, 14:49
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#3
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Deity
Local Time: 23:08
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Maybe "footsoldier", "commoner", or "squire".
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July 29, 2002, 16:27
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#4
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Prince
Local Time: 07:08
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Location: somewhere deep in the forgotten woods of germany
Posts: 312
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How about "useless unit nobody will ever build"... 
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July 29, 2002, 17:01
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#5
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Prince
Local Time: 05:08
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Yes Caliban, if those are the actual stats of the unit, you could well be right. It isn't much better than an immortal or the longbowman.
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--P.J. O'Rourke
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July 29, 2002, 17:12
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#6
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Deity
Local Time: 23:08
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Caliban
How about "useless unit nobody will ever build"...
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You know, I didn't suggest the name that first came to mind "peasant". I thought you cound give it a move, attack, defend, and cost of 1.
Then send swarms of them to get in the way of the enemy.
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July 29, 2002, 20:33
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#7
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Prince
Local Time: 00:08
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 915
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If you use Firaxis' simplistic basic values a lot of units have limitations. If you use a more developed and sensible mod Men-at-Arms, or the Landsknecht (for Germans), could be useful.
Same with Shock Troops - offensive infantry using new tactics. They first occured in 1917 at Caporetto, and were made obsolescent by tanks. But for a brief period they were very effective, and almost won WW I for the Germans in 1918.
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July 29, 2002, 20:53
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#8
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King
Local Time: 06:08
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,131
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Caliban
How about "useless unit nobody will ever build"...
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Perhaps... but it could be the swordsman upgrade unit requiring only iron (which would be nice). Could do with a 5 attack or so though, unless it's really cheap. But then it would need to come later than longbowmen else they would be completely useless...
I'm most interested in the new city improvements. Stock Exchange will be one, but I'm hoping to see a return of the civ2 superhighways improvement or something similar and some other improvements to 'fill out' the industrial and modern age. Also hoping to see the medieval and modern tech tree added too.
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July 30, 2002, 00:32
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#9
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:08
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Location: of Apolyton
Posts: 264
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I think the Mongol UU replaces this new unit. As you can see the stats for the Keshik are 4.2.2, and if the stats for this unit are 4.2.1, then it makes sense for the Keshik to be one of these dudes on a horse.
I'd actually like to see this unit have different stats than a 4.2.1. Personally, I'm thinking 5.3.1. It would be an upgrade for the swordsman. That way, neither the Romans, nor the Persians would really lose much from an upgrade. As it stands, Persia would never care to upgrade, and Roman Legionaries would lose a defense point. Plus, we already have the cheap Longbowmen that are practically 4.2.1, even though they are actually 4.1.1. I would like this unit to be a slower, but stronger attacking version of the knight.
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July 30, 2002, 01:29
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#10
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Prince
Local Time: 06:08
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Location: Stockholm
Posts: 698
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The Musketman should beat the Medieval Infantry, both defending and attacking. Thus, the Musketman's stats should be raised.
__________________
The difference between industrial society and information society:
In an industrial society you take a shower when you have come home from work.
In an information society you take a shower before leaving for work.
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July 30, 2002, 04:52
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#11
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Warlord
Local Time: 15:08
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 266
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Hmm...maybe something to replace that damn swordsman.
I hate that tin hat bloke sticking around on the menu 
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"Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." - Glen Bateman, The Stand (Stephen King)
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July 30, 2002, 07:39
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#12
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:08
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I can only applaud the fact that they are beefing up the units list, but I doubt that they can add many new unique units, without introducing more unique capabilities.
As for a name for the little bugger, how about Cannon Fodder.
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July 30, 2002, 09:05
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#13
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Prince
Local Time: 05:08
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Posts: 671
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Just so ong as it gets rid of that bloody swordsman. He sticks around way to long in the build list
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I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow. As surely as night follows day.
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July 31, 2002, 12:28
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#14
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Prince
Local Time: 07:08
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Deathwalker
Just so ong as it gets rid of that bloody swordsman. He sticks around way to long in the build list
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Yep! Maybe you should be given the option to upgrade swordsmen to riflemen in industrial age...
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July 31, 2002, 12:57
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#15
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Deity
Local Time: 23:08
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Why don't you make the swordsman upgrade in the editor? That's what I did.
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July 31, 2002, 16:49
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#16
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Warlord
Local Time: 15:08
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney
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Because what the hell can he upgrade to? 
__________________
"Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." - Glen Bateman, The Stand (Stephen King)
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July 31, 2002, 18:27
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#17
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Emperor
Local Time: 23:08
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 3,215
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I made the swordsman upgrade to Marines, which worked fairly well.
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July 31, 2002, 22:38
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#18
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Settler
Local Time: 23:08
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 27
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You have to make an offensive unit upgrade to another offensive unit.
Like Ixnay said: Swordsman to Marine. Works for me too.
I would like to see something in-between like everybody else.
A man-at-arms or longswordsman would be nice. Just something different.
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August 1, 2002, 02:32
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#19
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Warlord
Local Time: 15:08
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 266
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Quote:
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Originally posted by ixnay37
I made the swordsman upgrade to Marines, which worked fairly well.
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Sword->M16
Armoured tin hat bloke->amphibious attacker
That doesn't make sense! 
Still, its way better than what I did. The AI piles up a heap of swordman and the marine is an attacker but not a great one like a tank. I allowed upgrading them to cavalry and that seroiusly backfired...  Returned to default after that.
Not an issue now - this new unit seems to be true. The all round footsoldier will make battles in the middle ages a whole lot more 'medieval' 
__________________
"Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." - Glen Bateman, The Stand (Stephen King)
Last edited by NeoStar; August 1, 2002 at 02:48.
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August 1, 2002, 12:45
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#20
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Deity
Local Time: 23:08
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
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Quote:
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Originally posted by NeoStar
Because what the hell can he upgrade to?
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I just have them upgrade to Musketman/Musketeers. Historically that's what happened, the infamous Musketeers used both swords and gunpowder.
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August 1, 2002, 13:41
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#21
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Prince
Local Time: 06:08
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 698
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My solution is to have an infantry unit called a Fusilier, appering with Military Tradition.
In the end of the 17th century, flintlocks, lead bullets, cartridges and bayonets made the musket the first all-round infantry weapon. Soldiers carrying such muskets, mostly called "fusiliers" replaced the earlier infantry units.
Units
Offensive unit with defensive bombardment
Archer - Longbowman - Musketeer - Fusilier
Offensive
Warrior - Swordsman - Man-at-Arms - Fusilier
Defensive
Spearman - Pikeman - Fusilier
The Fusilier then upgrades into the Rifleman.
__________________
The difference between industrial society and information society:
In an industrial society you take a shower when you have come home from work.
In an information society you take a shower before leaving for work.
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August 1, 2002, 14:10
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#22
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:08
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Location: of Apolyton
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Where did you get the art for the Fusilier, and is it good quality art that looks like it belongs in the game?
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August 1, 2002, 15:22
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#23
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Prince
Local Time: 06:08
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Location: Stockholm
Posts: 698
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I haven't got any separate art yet. One could use the French Musketeer, if the French get a better unit.
I thought of giving the French Foreign Legionnaires (sp?).
__________________
The difference between industrial society and information society:
In an industrial society you take a shower when you have come home from work.
In an information society you take a shower before leaving for work.
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August 1, 2002, 15:44
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#24
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Warlord
Local Time: 22:08
Local Date: October 31, 2010
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Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 282
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There is a German Fusilier at civfanatics.
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August 1, 2002, 15:54
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#25
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Prince
Local Time: 06:08
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Location: Stockholm
Posts: 698
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double post]
__________________
The difference between industrial society and information society:
In an industrial society you take a shower when you have come home from work.
In an information society you take a shower before leaving for work.
Last edited by Optimizer; August 2, 2002 at 14:54.
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August 15, 2002, 19:35
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#26
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Prince
Local Time: 06:08
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 698
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Any news?
__________________
The difference between industrial society and information society:
In an industrial society you take a shower when you have come home from work.
In an information society you take a shower before leaving for work.
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August 15, 2002, 20:09
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#27
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King
Local Time: 21:08
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Maybe call them Macemen.
I think the problem that firaxis has encountered is that it has not allowed enough spacing between unit strenghts. If the Med Inf is 5/2/1, then why build a night? If its 4/2/1 then why build Med Inf (unless you dont have horses)
Modern Armor is only 24 times stronger then a warrior. If there had been a steeper curve for unit strengths, then you would be able to 'fit' more units in between.
Ex. warrior 1.1.1
Horsemen 3.1.2
Swordsmen 3.2.1
Archer 2.1.1
Knight 5.4.2
Longbowmen 5.1.1
Medieval Infantry 6.3.1
Pikemen 1.5.1
Musketmen 3.6.1
Cavalry 10.5.3
Riflemen 8.10.1
Infantry 14.18.1
Paratrooper 16.22.1
Marines 22.16.1
Tank 26.20.2
Mech Inf 18 30 2
Modern Armor 36.26.3
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August 17, 2002, 08:50
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#28
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Prince
Local Time: 06:08
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That's right - in Civ 1 the generation gaps between units were great. In Civ 2 they solved it by using hit points. Civ 3 lacks decisive strength gaps between units.
Anyway, would the Medieval Infantry do any good? It seems to be just a little better than Swordsmen.
__________________
The difference between industrial society and information society:
In an industrial society you take a shower when you have come home from work.
In an information society you take a shower before leaving for work.
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August 17, 2002, 10:18
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#29
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Prince
Local Time: 14:08
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 420
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Maybe call them Macemen.
I think the problem that firaxis has encountered is that it has not allowed enough spacing between unit strenghts. If the Med Inf is 5/2/1, then why build a night? If its 4/2/1 then why build Med Inf (unless you dont have horses)
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Not really. If Med Inf. has 5/2/1 vs. Knights at 4/3/2, then the Knights still have the advantage of more mobility (retreat plus faster movement) and higher defense. Actually, a 5/2/1 would be quite well balanced against a 4/3/2 unit--do you go for the extra bit of attack power, or the extra mobility and defense?
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Those who live by the sword...get shot by those who live by the gun.
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August 18, 2002, 10:21
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#30
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Warlord
Local Time: 07:08
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 186
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There is room for a couple more infantry units in the different era's .
It would be intresting to see a second UU also , this way the Franch could keep their Musketeers and get the Foreign Legion also  .
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