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Old August 18, 2002, 14:34   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by SABRA

There is room for a couple more infantry units in the different era's .
I'd like to see some kind of modern infantry I could transport with my helicopters...

stats maybe: 6/15/1
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Old August 18, 2002, 23:33   #32
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If medieval infantry were 5/2/1 I'd still build knights myself too. Mobility is so much more powerful than just attack strength on it's own (hence the power of rush tactics, and why they are always done by fast horse units). The infantry would have to be accompanied by pikes (realistic, I suppose) if they were to be successful in attacking against a human opponent, otherwise they'd be whittled down one by one.
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Old August 19, 2002, 00:20   #33
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Well, I seriously doubt they would completely re-work the entire # system... so I expect an underpowered 4.2.1 or so useless unit.
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Old August 19, 2002, 01:00   #34
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With Samurai at 4.4.2., and the below historical modded values, there is little point in having "Medieval Infantry".

Longbowmen: 4.3.1. English UU.
Knights: 5.2.2.
Early Musketman: 5.6.1.
Musket Infantry: 6.7.1.

If I did have them in my mod they'd likely be 4.4.1 or maybe 4.5.1.

Other modded values:

8.10.1. Riflemen
10.13.1. Infantry.
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Old August 19, 2002, 01:16   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Maybe call them Macemen.
I think the problem that firaxis has encountered is that it has not allowed enough spacing between unit strenghts. . .

Knight 5.4.2
Longbowmen 5.1.1

Pikemen 1.5.1
Musketmen 3.6.1
Cavalry 10.5.3

Infantry 14.18.1
Paratrooper 16.22.1
Although I strongly disagree with some of your values your point is VERY valid about Firaxis making a big mistake by not having enough space between units. A lot of us complained about that in December. Why did they do that, and keep post-gunpowder units' values so low??

Firaxis already admitted that they made those values ARTIFICIALLY low to "give a chance" to civs without certain resources, such as saltpeter. Of course, strategic resource appearances rates are absurdly too low in Civ 3. So Firaxis is wrong on both counts.

All this is why people have been forced to mod the game - for playability AND some semblance of historical accuracy.

AS FOR YOUR VALUES. . .

Longbowmen defense value is FAR too low. They repeatedly stopped French knights at Crecy, Poitiers, and Agincourt.

Knights defense value is a bit too high.

Pikemen is alot too high. Actually, I liked Civ 2 giving them a bonus against mounted troops.

Cavalry attack values are too high. With your riflemen at '10' defense the cavalry will have a fair chance of defeating them - totally unrealistic.

BTW, we also need a second (modern) Musketman (with the bayonet and a faster firing mechanism), plus offensive Shock Troops coming before tanks.

Your values for paratroopers is far too high.
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Old August 19, 2002, 13:46   #36
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Yeah I know, I spent about 3 minutes on the numbers. I just wanted to make an example. No real thought was put into it.
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Old August 19, 2002, 17:44   #37
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Yes, if we're going to have a special Medieval Infantry unit, Men-at-Arms is probably as good a name as any.
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Old August 21, 2002, 09:17   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Caliban


I'd like to see some kind of modern infantry I could transport with my helicopters...

stats maybe: 6/15/1
That would indeed be great .
A form of mechanized modern ifantry that can transport a foot soldier or two would also be great .
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Old August 21, 2002, 15:54   #39
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Optimizer
My solution is to have an infantry unit called a Fusilier, appering with Military Tradition.

[/QUOTEThat would make Military Tradition too powerful!
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Old August 21, 2002, 17:47   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Caliban
How about "useless unit nobody will ever build"...
No this unit is already in the game only under a different name it's called explorer
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Old August 21, 2002, 20:37   #41
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I agree, a medievel unit (other than the knight) needs to be added. It's like the game skips from the Ancient Era to the Industrial Era.

The new unit (whatever it's name is) could be 5/2/1, enough of an upgrade from the Swordsman, and more powerful than the Longbowman, though not interferring with the Musketman. I personally like the name Footsoldier, or Footman.

And personally, I think the modern ground unit, Marine, needs a change. If they want this game to be historically accurate, they need to change this dudes name...maybe to Heavy Infantry or something like that. The Marines are U.S. troops, yet in Civ3, every civ can build him...
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Old August 22, 2002, 09:11   #42
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If a tech becomes too powerful, you could raise its cost.

Should these "Men-at-Arms" be as strong as 5/2/1? Then they would slaughter Musketmen both in offense and defense, if you dont raise the values of all gunpowder units.
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Old August 22, 2002, 09:24   #43
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I would like to see more units in the game personally
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Old August 22, 2002, 11:44   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Level
There is a German Fusilier at civfanatics.
Its a nazi unit.
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Old August 22, 2002, 12:16   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH


Its a nazi unit.
Not if you remove the flag... remember, the German army and the nazis are two things that do not belong together (except in the years between 1933-45)
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Old August 23, 2002, 07:05   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tolkien
The Marines are U.S. troops, yet in Civ3, every civ can build him...
Oh don't be stupid.

Someone introduce this guy to the Royal Marines...
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Old August 23, 2002, 09:46   #47
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Ok Tolkien these are the Royal Marines
Royal Marines this is Tolkien, say hello to each other
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Old August 23, 2002, 13:25   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by TacticalGrace
Someone introduce this guy to the Royal Marines...
Other nations also have special forces. Germany, France, India...

But the expression "Marines" only refers to english-speaking countries. I would prefer "Special Corps" or something like that...

No, reading this twice I suppose "Marines" should stay...
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Old August 23, 2002, 14:24   #49
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jantisarry shood be the best infantry unit until the rifleman
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Old August 23, 2002, 21:51   #50
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I doubt very much if the Janissaries in 1805 (what there were left of them by then) would have had much luck going up against Napoleon's musket (and bayonet) armed foot soldiers in 1805, or against the professional British soldiers of the same period. I'll remind you that they failed to put down the Greek revolt in the 1820's = why the sultan began to build a modern army causing them to revolt (and get massacred).

Last edited by Coracle; August 23, 2002 at 21:56.
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Old August 26, 2002, 07:11   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Caliban

But the expression "Marines" only refers to english-speaking countries. I would prefer "Special Corps" or something like that...
Yes this is actually true when you think of the term "Marines" you immediately think of America or Britain.

We need some neutral expression hmm how about "special trained unit which is capable of amphibious landings"?
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Old August 26, 2002, 07:37   #52
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I don't care what they call marines cause noone ever buids them. How about raising their attack/defense so they become useful? Attack 8? Movement 1? After panzers? They must be kidding!!!
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Old August 26, 2002, 09:32   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Caliban


Not if you remove the flag... remember, the German army and the nazis are two things that do not belong together (except in the years between 1933-45)
Thanks, I'm aware of that. The point is that a 20th century Nazi or German inf unit isnt going to look like a 17th or 18th century fusilier, it just has the same name.
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