Immigrants

[DanS]

"Yes, I just thought you would be interested to know that it actually has nothing to do with dutch."

I already knew it and it's not really that interesting.

"I guess we wont agree on this one."

What, so you're giving up the argument?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by DanS
What, so you're giving up the argument?

Are you declaring a victory?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Sikander
Immigrants must be:

1) Legal

2) Willing to obey the other laws of the country

3) Tolerant of the existing society and subcultures

4) Willing to learn the official language as soon as possible

5) Willing and able to contribute to the economy and general welfare of the state


If these conditions are met and upheld, then I have no problem with eventually granting citizenship to the immigrant. If not, then they can go home willing or not.

and willing to be screwed by the home office

at leasty here on the Big Island.

I am actually not an immigrant, but I am on a "long" stay over here...

Long - why? Well first I studied, and than I got married,and got the baby, and now my wife studies... ooooh.

Anyway, I know the language, I work, and the home office (and a part of it is UK department for immigration) doen't really like me working , even though I have the lawful right - as a married partner to a student. You get the visa for a year, even though you have a few more years left to study, and do it all over again in a year. They kicked a friend of mine out home, because he said that he worked, even though he could have legally. So he had to sort it out at home in the embassy and lose a month, he came back to finish. What else... the system doesn't like us foreigners in here - in UK. Even though allegedly this is one of the best countries... best countries perhaps - though I don't think the others are better - meaning they look at your papers and treat you accordingly - but that is the state - nothing can/or should be expected from the beaurocrats.

Papers are the key - you can be as integrated as you want - there is actually a good border - if you have a masters or PHD and earn more than 60000 £ a year, you might get the papers on that basis... but hey I am not even close on any count. I just have a regular job, I am integrated, and I have all the hussle once a year reminding me that I am not from here.

Doh...


That is why EU is great - imagine all that for normal countries at least EU citizens can now move without problems - for Croatia there is a good excuse in a large number of asylum seekers - initally after the war, but this is the same for most of the world. At least western Europe decided to kill this nonsense for their own citizens.

Ah it is not easy to run a state that is for sure, but it is annoying being a legal alien in a country - especialy when you have family to support and some moron in the home office can just send you packing home (you don't get much choice if you are told - leave the country in three days or else - else is we will kick you out and gove you 10 year ban on enterance )- and while you might be able to sort it out there at home- all the uncertainty - rent gone - bills to pay if you want to stay - all the usuall stuff. Bah, just not worth it. I am anyway kind of fedup with the situation and would like to go back on some firmer ground, but hey 2 more years, and than we should lift off. Last year we sent the papers to the home office and did not get them for 4 months --- oohhh ultimate bureaucracy. Not to mention one can get sacked in the period and than you can't get employed because you cannot prove that you have the right to work as your papers are stuck there.

Living in another country sucks - better not to think about it.

- anyway this year I think I will go there in person to get it sorted as the whole department might get outsourced over the winter period. So i better make sure that the documents are with me when I need them.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
you know what the sad thing is?

usually, immigrants which want to become citizens and actually study for the citizenship exam...

they often know more about the us than native borns.

I agree that if these were true then it would be a sad passing of events indeed, however, I'm not sure this is the case. I admite that nearly all of the people I associate with have college degrees and come from a middle class background but I still think the average American (at least the average Californian) is well educated and knows a good deal about world events and world history.

There is alot of steriotyping and talking about "Joe 6-pack" from Alabama but by and large the steriotypes are untrue.

[Q Classic]

yeah, but see, i don't think you live near joe sixpack.

i live in georgia, and even in "urban" atlanta, you still get a lot of those people.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
yeah, but see, i don't think you live near joe sixpack.

i live in georgia, and even in "urban" atlanta, you still get a lot of those people.

I think you may be right about that one! but you choice to live next to the rednecks.

[Loif]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
you know what the sad thing is?

usually, immigrants which want to become citizens and actually study for the citizenship exam...

they often know more about the us than native borns.

and even though most of those assimilate, they often also retain their own tongues and cultures.

That is so true. One of my best friends is from Uganda. He became a Canadian citizen nine years ago and is prouder of this country than most native Canadians are. He puts everyone to shame when it comes to knowing things about Canada. He assimilated into the culture but still has ties to his homeland through language, customs, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

And someone mentioned learning the national language of the country in which you live. Obviously you must do that in order to get along in life. I don't understand why it is a problem though, to have forms written in languages that immigrants may understand better. I live in a country where we have TWO national languages - English and French. Everything here is written in both languages, from cereal boxes to milk containers to legal documents. Yes, people should have to learn the language of the country to which they immigrate (I don't know for certain but I'm assuming that is one of the rules when applying to immigrate) but I see nothing wrong with being able to read and write in one's native language. I sure as hell wouldn't want to give up reading and writing in English if I were to move to another country where a different language than English was spoken.

PS: paiktis - I didn't write the article. I made that clear when I originally posted this. The way you quoted me makes it look as if I did.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I think you may be right about that one! but you choice to live next to the rednecks.

A redneck isn't necessarily stupid. I live in Appalachian Maryland, and us rednecks score better on state tests the SATs than Baltimore and other city schools. The same thing probably goes for Atlanta. I'd bet rural Georgia schools are better than urban schools.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

The words "So what?" still reverberate. Why force a Bengladeshi moving to Bradford to learn English? There's plenty of Bengali speakers there, and it's up to the immigrant whether he wishes to make life easier for himself by learning English.

I lived in Cardiff for three years. I was never required to learn Welsh.

[Kropotkin]

...and then the welshmen forced you to leave with pitchforks

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Dan Severn



Why the Hell, exactly, would they wish to be part of Mexico? That would make immigration to the US moot.

Dan, that is the way Texas became independant from Mexico. Large numbers of white Americans immigrated into the Texas area, eventually becoming the majority in the area. They voted to leave Mexico and eventually did so. Its not impossible to imagine a situation like that here. Mexican nationalism is strong, at least in the D.C. area. The majority number of Mexicans have Mexican flags on their cars instead of American flags. They speak Spanish almost exclusively, demanding our institutions meet their language needs. I don't imagine the situation to be very different in Texas. These people aren't here because they love the U.S., they're here because they love the dollar. They don't want to be Americans, they want to be rich North Mexicans.

[Kropotkin]

Yes nationalist, just like the immigrants did 100 years ago. They wanted to get a better life.

[nationalist]

Why didn't the millions and millions of illegals that have crossed the border stay in Mexico and try to make their own country great? What kind of government encourages (as President Fox did) his own citizens to illegally immigrate into a different country. Usually, when a government of a country encourages the mass migration of its subject into a neigboring country it is called an invasion.

[Ramo]

Immigration is a simple question of liberty. Why the hell should a state have the authority to prohibit a person from entering simply because he/she has the wrong skin color, speaks the wrong language, or isn't rich and educated enough? Immigration barriers are absolutely antithetical to freedom.

They don't want to be Americans, they want to be rich North Mexicans.

Look, I've lived in Texas for 4 years, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that there isn't any popular secession movement among Mexicans. In fact, most of the people who do want to secede are white. Does that mean we should cut off immigration to whites?

Large numbers of white Americans immigrated into the Texas area, eventually becoming the majority in the area. They voted to leave Mexico and eventually did so.

The Texans declared independence from Mexico primarily due to Santa Anna's centralist coup d'etat, not because the people in Mexico City spoke the wrong language or had the wrong skin color. In fact, during this period (the years after ~ the end of 1835), Mexico crushed a variety of independence movements (the most successful of which occurred in the Yucatan penninsula, much of the Southern bank of the Rio Grande, and Texas of course). After the coup, the Texas gov't tried to gain limited autonomy from Mexico, and only rebelled afterwards.

These people aren't here because they love the U.S., they're here because they love the dollar.

Yeah, how dare they try to get a better life for themselves and their families. Let's bomb the bastards!

[S. Kroeze]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Your country is densely populated?

You need to get out more often. Visit some of the cities in Asia and Africa. I highly recommend Tokyo and Hong Kong.

For your information:
According to my atlas Tokyo is a city in Japan, not a country; Hong Kong is -according to the same atlas- a Chinese city, not a country.

Please inform me when my atlas is outdated!

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
you know what the sad thing is?

usually, immigrants which want to become citizens and actually study for the citizenship exam...

they often know more about the us than native borns.

and even though most of those assimilate, they often also retain their own tongues and cultures.

Even sadder is the fact that while I am of this kind. I know more about the US than about Greece and I could tell you more about your history and geography, damned I had an A+ in english lit in my senior year (ages ago) but still the US gov't and the INS would not allow me to officially immigrate to the US. At the same time suspected terrorists and known war crriminals have been granted visas and green cards and taken up life in the US (some of the 9/11 terrorsists for example) !!! This is another example of how if you do everything right you get screwed.

Anyway there were ways for me to stay after I graduated but not a direct way, so I decided to leave and come here.

Now I fly over once in a while and get to enjoy the US as a tourist, I do put up my name in the visa lottery though, you never know!

So long...