Glory to Country through Strength and Honor

jdd2007 · August 5, 2002, 22:10

thats the motto of the HAWK PARTY, a growing party in the AC demo game. if you want to join, cool!

Hawk Party: SMAC Branch Members

jdd2007
UnOrthOdOx
Emvepe
gopher
skywalker
Duddha-heyyyyy!

Nubclear · August 5, 2002, 22:11

Quote:

Originally posted by jdd2007
thats the motto of the HAWK PARTY, an influential party in the civ3 demo game. i, chairman of the hawks, am opening a new branch here, and if you want to join, cool! if we get like 5 people to join, you can elect a branch leader (less work for me

)

Be careful JD....The DIA may open up a "new branch" here.....

jdd2007 · August 5, 2002, 22:15

nooooo

Crisler · August 5, 2002, 22:25

Strength and honor are virtues of the Fundamentalist Faction as well. We value intregity and honor highly, a man's word should be his bond. We also believe in a strong military. Be we use these things to not only bring glory to our country but also to bring glory to our God!

I would welcome discussions with your faction to see if we can work around ideological difference to form a powerful alliance.

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

jdd2007 · August 5, 2002, 22:30

if we dont get many (read: 1 or 2) members, then we could merge with you. it even entered my mind as i saw your thread. however, lets see before we make any decisions.

people! the hawk manifesto is coming soon, and you can edit it considering the different game and all.

jdd2007 · August 5, 2002, 23:30

The Hawk Manifesto:

Our mission is to assure that our nation will be in a position to allow AS MANY victory types by end game as possble. This requires strong, aggressive military action, especially early, to ensure ourselves a position where Domination and Conquest are possible. Building improvements and Wonders will be done in the times where we are either at peace, or our military is deemed adequate to it's task. Once we have built our nation, we should rotate military with other priorities to assure our dominance in all areas.

We believe science should focus on what is most needed at the time, be it a wonder tech, or a military advance. Trading tech should preferrably be done in return for other tech or needed resources. Trading away tech for cash should only be done when it is either a dire need, or would cripple a rival's economy, thereby giving us a further lead.

We promote and advocate wars that -can be won-, be they to gain territory, resources, or simply to slow an opponent or deny resources. We DO NOT advocate prolonged wars that will strangle our economy and resources. Before declaring war, our nation should have a clear view of the objectives already in place. There are many civ's out there who will challenge our dominance, carefull planning and adaptation will be required for the military to succeed.

We welcome opposing views and parties, as competition leads to greater strength. Debate and votes are essential to our society, and we will leave major decisions on what is best to the people, as they are the true strength of Apolytonia. While we may oppose others views, we realize that the enemy lies without, and not within, and will work to achieve a cooperation between parties to meet the greater good. We believe in the Democratic process and will actively work to ensure the people's will is carried out.

What do you think?

Andemagne · August 6, 2002, 01:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Crisler
Strength and honor are virtues of the Fundamentalist Faction as well. We value intregity and honor highly, a man's word should be his bond. We also believe in a strong military. Be we use these things to not only bring glory to our country but also to bring glory to our God!

now! thats something I wnat to hear!

and hawk party has good points also

Crisler · August 6, 2002, 09:28

It sounds as if the Hawk party shares many of the same views as the Fundamentalist Faction. We would welcome an alliance of our two parties.

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

Tactical Marine · August 6, 2002, 10:19

You got yourself a new member jd.

I think we should act immediantly and get as many party members in cabinet postions as possible to ensure that our party is in control at the beging.

jdd2007 · August 6, 2002, 10:31

great, TacMar! lets recruit some more people...

UnOrthOdOx · August 6, 2002, 13:55

jd,

I remain always and forever a Hawk. I may not be quite as active here as the Civ 3 game requires much of my attention, but rest assured, will be lurking at the very least.

DeathByTheSword · August 6, 2002, 15:13

may I ask what your thinking (?) is on atrocities (appeal or not) because they are almost all war related....and if you believe in war i suggest you read 'The art of war' by Sun Ztu his views on the battlefield are great but no more great then his views on the state and war......

Method · August 6, 2002, 15:15

jdd, do you even have SMAC?

UnOrthOdOx · August 6, 2002, 16:12

Quote:

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
may I ask what your thinking (?) is on atrocities (appeal or not) because they are almost all war related....and if you believe in war i suggest you read 'The art of war' by Sun Ztu his views on the battlefield are great but no more great then his views on the state and war......

While we are listing reading references, might I also suggest the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu (which Sun Tzu's work is based on) and the essays of Sun Ping (who refined Sun Tzu's work for a more modern era)

The seperation of military and state truly cannot be done, as Sun Tzu suggests. There is a time and place for military action, but this party is to make sure that when the time is there, we are in a place to use the military. Atrocities should be taken IMO on a case by case basis, and upon evaluating the situation at the time.

TKG, if you are referring to the manifesto, I wrote that for the Civ 3 game (yes, I wrote it, but jdd is president of the party and editted my work making me rewrite it what, 4 times...). It does need to be adjusted some to fit in here more appropriately, but the basic idea will remain.

DeathByTheSword · August 6, 2002, 16:25

I am aware of sun pin but he did not refined Sun Tzu`s work there is a big differents between sun pin and sun Tzu...feedback on lao Tzu I do not have because this is the first time i have heard of the name

. EDIT: the name Tao te ching ring a bell by the way.......the way of battle? isnt?

Method · August 6, 2002, 16:30

what i meant was, how can you form an opinion on atrocities if you dont even have the game?

UnOrthOdOx · August 6, 2002, 16:31

Tao Te Ching: Book of Thou Does - the basics of Taoism. Lao Tzu is the father of Taoism, though Taoism has changed much since Lao's time. A quick search will pull up hundreds of sights. Ping and Tzu are similar in some areas, but different in others. Looking from a historical view, Ping represents Sun Tzu's philosophy prety well in a time where Taoism was being abandoned. The basic principles are similar.

TKG, I have it, I cannot speak for jdd.

DeathByTheSword · August 6, 2002, 16:34

I agree And now I know how you mean and ok tanx for the heads up i will look it up......

Method · August 6, 2002, 16:44

fair enough ortho. so then would you commit atrocities with the charter in place? would you build (and use) X units? would you launch PBs? would you nerve staple or obliterate captured bases?

DeathByTheSword · August 6, 2002, 16:47

If you look at the P4 thread the most thing are explained there. but a little summary:

*yes to building PB/ no to using PB
*No to building x units
*no to obliterating (doesnt have any plusses as it as with civ3)
*maybe nerve staple p4 is talking about that.

EDIT this is for all of you who will ask it later on

Anodyne · August 6, 2002, 16:55

Hmh.. Yes, new parties are positive... although this one is "imported"

UnOrthOdOx · August 7, 2002, 09:29

Quote:

Originally posted by TKG
fair enough ortho. so then would you commit atrocities with the charter in place? would you build (and use) X units? would you launch PBs? would you nerve staple or obliterate captured bases?

If you are looking for an official party statement, I would have to say something along these lines:

The commitment of atrocities is a matter of personal ethics, and one best left on that level. The Hawk party would advocate that before any such actions are taken, a poll of the public is submitted and requires some % approval before allowing such acts. We believe it is wrong for party line voting to interfere with personal views, and would leave such decisions up to our individuals.

Now, me personally? I am against commiting atrocities in violation of the charter, as part of my personal honor. I don't like to build x units, but there have been times where I have in extreme circumstances. I usually find there need as an indication that I am doing something wrong. I build PB, but do not like to use them. I am more lenient on the nerve stapling and would prefer it over obliteration in a case where the charter is not in place.

Emvepe · August 7, 2002, 15:52

I am going to DISBAND my party as no one here seems to be COOL ENOUGH to join it. I mean IRL I'm not such a psycho guy but its FUN to RP as one.. :P Since this party is as close as it gets I would like to sign up. I will be less *extreme* and follow the parties policies.

Crisler · August 7, 2002, 16:06

JDD you mentioned your party might be willing to ally with the Fundamentalist faction. Now is the time to do so, we need to the vote out to ensure that the first Commissioner of this Colony is of the Fundamentalist Faction. So come on Hawks the time to vote is now....

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

Tactical Marine · August 7, 2002, 16:18

You have my vote crisler.

UnOrthOdOx · August 7, 2002, 16:26

Quote:

JDD you mentioned your party might be willing to ally with the Fundamentalist faction. Now is the time to do so, we need to the vote out to ensure that the first Commissioner of this Colony is of the Fundamentalist Faction. So come on Hawks the time to vote is now....

The only way we would ever agree to such an alliance is if we maintain our seperate nature. Your position of peace first, but we will defend ourselves turns my stomach, quite frankly. We should be imposing our will, not reacting. Force others to react to us. Think how much easier it would be to spread your word if all factions united under us. If my leader has promised our aid unto you, however, I will consider voting along with it.

It must be QUITE clear that I bend no knee to these bible thumping, turn the other cheek extremists. I would prefer to head off alone, without party.

Crisler · August 7, 2002, 17:12

Do not mistake our desire for peace as a sign of weakness. We feel that a strong military is needed. However as with Israel of old earth, our arm y might be small but it is to be feared. We will try for peace first, but if the other side will not talk then they will tremble as our army will show them the meaning of the term "Wrath of God!"

We will give the other colonies a chance to exist peacefully and if they seek to harm us we will obliterate them.

E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction

Leland · August 7, 2002, 18:20

Quote:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx The only way we would ever agree to such an alliance is if we maintain our seperate nature. Your position of peace first, but we will defend ourselves turns my stomach, quite frankly. We should be imposing our will, not reacting. Force others to react to us. Think how much easier it would be to spread your word if all factions united under us.

I should inform you that the hard-liners of the Fundie Party (well, so far just me

) are behind that philosophy 100%. As God delivered Og, the King of Bashan, to the hands of Israelites so that they may utterly destroy him and his wicked kingdom, so too shall He deliver us the heads of other factions on this planet that is ours by Divine Intervention and God's Will alone. The only exception of course being that kind, wise leader of the Believers, Miriam Godwinson... God Bless her and may her righteousness shine upon the rest of us!

And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions. Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
(Hebrews 11:32-34)

Leland · August 7, 2002, 18:36

By the way, what directorships does the Hawk Party have its eyes on for the first term?

Emvepe · August 8, 2002, 03:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Leland
By the way, what directorships does the Hawk Party have its eyes on for the first term?

So far we have canditates running for:
Director of military: Emvepe(me

)
Director of Foreign Affairs: Tactical Marine