New Wonder: Hollywood

[des-esseintes]

Well, I was having a sleepless night (damn obsession ) thinking about what new Great Wonders would be appropriate to put in PtW. Then it came to me as a vision:

Hollywood.

Think about it, while the Pentagon is the symbol of U.S. military might, and the WTC is (was ) the figurehead of economic dominance, the USA is currently owning the world in one more aspect: culture. And the symbol of American culture is Hollywood.

In fact, it's a freakin' culture factory. Think about it, "Cheap American popcorn flicks" have been, and still are, a TREMENDOUS helper in spreading "The American Way" and in general the American lifestyle around the globe.

Again, think about it. Effects could be something like having newly founded and conquered cities start at culture 10, and/or giving each city a culture boost of 2-3 extra culture per turn, AS WELL as rendering ALL cities IMMUNE to culture flipping. Would be awesome IMO.

Of course, if this wonder was in the game, it would practically be a requirement for a Cultural Victory

[Optimizer]

Indeed Hollywood deserves to be a Wonder, but all modern Wonders shouldn't be American.

[History Guy]

There's a wonder that'd be better off 'lost'.

[Zero-Tau]

Originally posted by des-esseintes
Effects could be something like having newly founded and conquered cities start at culture 10, and/or giving each city a culture boost of 2-3 extra culture per turn, AS WELL as rendering ALL cities IMMUNE to culture flipping. Would be awesome IMO.

WAY overpowered. If this wonder was in the game, it would be used by anyone wanting to go to war in the modern age. Think about the consequences: As a warmonger, a player has probably had a few leaders earlier. Save the last one and rush Hollywood when it becomes available. Now go to war. Now, all cities you conquer will start at territory size 2, or get there within a few turns, so territory control is a minor problem, plus there is no risk of cities flipping back to their original civ, so you'll just need to leave one or two units to deal with resistors.

Again, this would be a game breaker.

And one more note: with the quality of the movies they're making nowadays, it'd be more realistic if Hollywood increased the risk of cities flipping to other civs.

But I agree, Hollywood deserves to be in the game. But in this incarnation, it'd be way too good. How about something like 2 culture every turn in every city connected to the trade network. Would reduce the need for cultural building in conquered cities. Still incredibly useful (maybe still overpowered), but not a game breaker.

Zero-Tau

[History Guy]

How 'bout this: Hollywood decreases culture of owning civilization by 1/2.

[Hagbart]

Originally posted by History Guy
How 'bout this: Hollywood decreases culture of owning civilization by 1/2.

Good idea!
Hollywood is not a wonder, it's a city.

[Hagbart]

In fact: More films are produced in India than in the USA.

[des-esseintes]

Originally posted by Hagbart
In fact: More films are produced in India than in the USA.

Ummm... so what... you can't deny that hollywood owns the damn world... along with burger king and coca-cola... action flicks with heroes that look like ozzy's mad cousin + rice and curry never cut it for me...

[Adagio]

Hollywood should be in the game, but I have a slightly different idea on how it should work:

The owner of Hollywood, now have a new luxury to sell (unlimitly). The luxury makes an unhappy citicen happy (Lot of people out there, who prefer to whatch a good movie (and forget about the bad life he/she has), instead of rioting)...

And/or maybe the wonder could give a +1 (or +2) culture points in every friendly city in the world (of the owner of Hollywoods culture). If the owner later takes over a (has been friendly city while Hollywood was created) city, it "starts" with some culture points... (Remember this wonder is a "late" wonder, so the cities wont get "that much" culture points)

Here's another idea:

Hollywood gives the owner an amount of gold each turn. The amount of gold is calculated like this:

For each city in your nation (taken that "you" built Hollywood), you get 1 gold/turn. For each 5 friendly (from other nations. Also it's required that the Civs in "friendly" has invented (or bought) the required tech to build Hollywood) city, you get 1 gold/turn

All Civs who has the required tech and is at peace with you (you self included ), also get's a luxury item, which makes one unhappy citicen content, in all connected cities

And one last idea about Hollywood:

In ctp1/2 (Don't remember if it was in both or which one it was included in...And I don't remember the exact effect, so don't kill me, if I say something wrong here) there was a TV (City improvement, which, as far as I remember, made people happier). The owner of hollywood gets 1 gold/turn for each TV there has been built in the whole world (Don't remember if they excluded enemy TVs)

Originally posted by Hagbart
In fact: More films are produced in India than in the USA.

So? I (and I believe most of you inhere) have seen more Hollywood productions, than India productions...

EDIT: wrote a "new" idea

[Ijuin]

Hmmm...I would go with having something similar to the CTP version of Hollywood. Here is my idea:

1) Culture and content faces from Colosseums in the owner's cities is doubled

2) The owner gets 1 gpt for each Colosseum owned by Civs that are NOT at war with the owning civ. This gold is not taken from the other Civs' treasuries, but is generated by the Hollywood wonder. (Envision that Hollywood creates 1 gpt in every city that has a Colosseum, but civs other than the owner must forfeit that gold to the owner of the wonder unless they are at war with the owner.)

[benjy]

i dont see how Hollywood can properly be described as a "wonder of the world." its completely intangible, because what you're describing is simply the phenomenon of Hollywood, not the city itself, which is fairly unremarkable. maybe that isnt important but in any case to mention hollywood as a "wonder" in the same breath as as the Sistine Chapel or the great pyramids is embarrassing!! they are real wonders.

the fact that hollywood is of dubious cultural value anyway, and that films made in India have a greater audience has already been stated.

[Ijuin]

Originally posted by benjy
i dont see how Hollywood can properly be described as a "wonder of the world." its completely intangible, because what you're describing is simply the phenomenon of Hollywood, not the city itself, which is fairly unremarkable. maybe that isnt important but in any case to mention hollywood as a "wonder" in the same breath as as the Sistine Chapel or the great pyramids is embarrassing!! they are real wonders.

Well The Internet is a Great Wonder too, and it isn't all that tangible either.

the fact that hollywood is of dubious cultural value anyway, and that films made in India have a greater audience has already been stated.

A greater audience? How many people outside of India watch India-made movies? Compare this to American movies being shown in three-fourths of the nations of the world.

[benjy]

yeah but India has a population of over1,000,000,000 and makes far more films! ok, its a small point - i dont know what % of the world has seen a hollywood movie but the real point of what i was saying is that hollywood is basically of relevance to western nations (though of course is exported world wide), as compared to say the Internet. incidentally, i dont think the the Internet is anything like as contraversial as hollywood - its a reveloutionary concept that has changed the face of comminucation and has had a profound effect on the way the world does business.

there is no comparison with hollywood, which whilst widely exported, churns out dozens of mediocre films a year very few of which have any effect on anything and are largely forgotten after 3 weeks in the cinemas. a wonder of the world is surely something which is longer lasting. also, and i dont care how many countries it is exported to, its a largely american cultural "achievement" - ok the pyramids were built by the egyptians and the great wall by the chinese, but they represent ideas cehtral to human development e.g. religion and warfare. Batman and Spiderman are good films but at the end of the day they dont mean ****.

god damn, that was a long speach.

[des-esseintes]

benjy:

You miss the point. Hollywood's strength isn't that of being a "producer of Fine Arts", rather its value as a sheer propaganda factory.

Example. I live in Norway. A country regarded, by both Norwegians and other Europeans, as debatably the "most Americanized country in Europe". What does this mean? Well basically. The kids watch american movies. The kids want to be like the ppl in those movies. Norways culture is weak (we dont have a cuisine, we dont have a music style, we dont have clothing, pretty much all we have is **** (and lots of it )) so the "flip modifier" is in America's favor.

America has the, in civ terms, "highest culture" in the modern world. They invented most, if not ALL, modern artforms. Not to mention (modern) sports, which is perhaps the most powerful of all cultural values.

Hollywood wouldn't be in the game for spewing out worthless crap at an amazing speed (though that should definitely get a mention in the description), it would be in the game as a symbol of a nation's (not just America's) cultural dominance.

That probably sounded as confusing as dialogue from the latest blockbuster but then again im Norwegian

[Lord_Davinator]

talking of sports.... this is just an idea mind you... how about the ability to build a small wonder that lets you host sporting events... so that in like say 4 or 8 years you earn some 100 odd gold coins....

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Lord_Davinator
talking of sports.... this is just an idea mind you... how about the ability to build a small wonder that lets you host sporting events... so that in like say 4 or 8 years you earn some 100 odd gold coins....

Sounds like it could end up being a good idea. Go to: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=57769

And post your idea there (That's the general "new wonders" thread)

[benjy]

hmm, to me "Great Wonders" conjure up images of fantastic achievements by civilizations, usually representing religious or some other aspect of human development. The word "Wonder" implies a sense of awe and achievement. sorry, but Legally Blond and Turner and Hooch just dont do it for me. they might have gone down a storm in Norway, but they have no relevance to the vast proportion of the world's population.

your statement that all modern art forms, including sports, were invented by americans is bizzarre.

(the important things that spring to mind regarding the US for me are: democracy, statue of liberty and military power).

[centrifuge]

Originally posted by benjy

(the important things that spring to mind regarding the US for me are: democracy, statue of liberty and military power).

Hey, don't forget about Mcdonald's, the last time that I was in Europe I saw those crap factories everywhere.

[XarXo]

Originally posted by des-esseintes
Well, I was having a sleepless night (damn obsession ) thinking about what new Great Wonders would be appropriate to put in PtW. Then it came to me as a vision:

Hollywood.

Think about it, while the Pentagon is the symbol of U.S. military might, and the WTC is (was ) the figurehead of economic dominance, the USA is currently owning the world in one more aspect: culture. And the symbol of American culture is Hollywood.

In fact, it's a freakin' culture factory. Think about it, "Cheap American popcorn flicks" have been, and still are, a TREMENDOUS helper in spreading "The American Way" and in general the American lifestyle around the globe.

Again, think about it. Effects could be something like having newly founded and conquered cities start at culture 10, and/or giving each city a culture boost of 2-3 extra culture per turn, AS WELL as rendering ALL cities IMMUNE to culture flipping. Would be awesome IMO.

Of course, if this wonder was in the game, it would practically be a requirement for a Cultural Victory

Please, NO! Hollywood is only the "American Way of Life" propaganda center. I hate all these stupid movies of love between rich people, racial/political conflicts that only matters to american history or good people that doesn't exists (almost in the density amount that usually shows).

Hollywood is only a factory of things that not happens, with the electoral promises I've sufficient things that doesn't happens. Thanks, but NO.

Another thing, why another american "wonder"? Isn't Taj Mahal enough?

Why not McDonald's: Turns enemy units in obess people that need a crab to move himself?

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by XarXo
Why not McDonald's: Turns enemy units in obess people that need a crab to move himself?

McDonald's as a Civ III Great Wonder? Nice suggestion for Firaxis Marketing department.

As a part of the advertisment agreement, may I have a "budget" CD of Civ III PTW with next Happy Meal of my children?

[Deathwalker]

Yes Hollywood should be added it affects are you can rewrite history, spread propergander though out the world so everyone is a little more friendley and it adds to your income

[Caliban]

Maybe hollywood could have a similar effect as the good old Eiffel Tower wonder of CivII: other civilizations forget your mistakes in the past!

Just make some nice little cowboy movies and all those slaughtered indians will be forgotten...

[N. Machiavelli]

Yes Hollywood should be added it affects are you can rewrite history, spread propergander though out the world so everyone is a little more friendley and it adds to your income

Just make some nice little cowboy movies and all those slaughtered indians will be forgotten...

Can we please drop this tangent before it degrades into another "I have an axe to grind with the US" thread?

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Optimizer
Indeed Hollywood deserves to be a Wonder, but all modern Wonders shouldn't be American.

Indeed. I was already wondering why the dam in the game is the Hoover dam, and not the Assouan (? don't know the English spelling). It was both more important and better known. I only know the Hoover dam because it broke once, flooding lots of people...

Originally posted by des-esseintes
America has the, in civ terms, "highest culture" in the modern world. They invented most, if not ALL, modern artforms. Not to mention (modern) sports, which is perhaps the most powerful of all cultural values.

WHAT? *cough*cough*cough*... I just choked on the snack I was eating... America has the highest culture?!? I have to agree with you, Norway is getting way to Americanized. The only thing the US has going for them is that they are economical the strongest country, and they use their money to buy all scientists and actors from around the world. So in that respect, the US has the most culture, yes. But do they have the most libraries, universities, the best education? No way!

But then again, maybe they are the most 'religious' civ too at this moment with all their tv-preachers and sects, if you don't count the Arab or Asian civs. In Europe, religion is gone down a lot, but hey, we have 4000 years of culture, not 400. I can't believe that a European would argue that America's culture is the highest, are you sure you are Norwegian and not Texan?

And to whoever said that America discovered all modern art forms: Name one, I dare you. Maybe Op Art was an American art form, but even that is questionable. All the others were just stolen from other countries, and commercialized. Maybe baseball is truely American, but you can hardly call that art

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by N. Machiavelli
Can we please drop this tangent before it degrades into another "I have an axe to grind with the US" thread?

You are right, and I am sorry. But some of the comments on this thread just scream for a response.

So, back on topic: Hollywood would make a good wonder, if you give it effects similar to the Eiffel tower in Civ II: make all other civs like you more. One of the possible effects is that you have increased flipping chances towards you, even if it has nothing to do with culture. Or, you can have higher assimilation rates, as this is also true irl: people who move to the US start behaving like Americans in just a few years time (I know, I lost a few friends who moved there.)

But, as said on this thread before, I don't want to see yet another American modern wonder, the game is already to biased now. So if Hollywood gets in, Hoover should be replaced with Assouan and Seti should be replaced by the Internet. And all other new wonders should definatily be non-American.

But I do like the idea of a McDonalds wonder... the evil empire

DeepO

[Cookie Monster]

CtP - Hollywood wonder - great wonder great game.

This ad brought to you by "The Banana Splits Show"

[jkelly]

(With apologies for a "me too" post)

I really like Hollywood as the CivIII "Eiffel Tower" (why was the Eiffel Tower the CivII Eiffel Tower, for that matter?). I don't think that there's any functionality in the Editor to create the "better reputation through a build" effect, though.

[Caliban]

Originally posted by N. Machiavelli
Can we please drop this tangent before it degrades into another "I have an axe to grind with the US" thread?

why? censorship? penguin terrorism?

[N. Machiavelli]

Originally posted by Caliban


why? censorship? penguin terrorism?

That must be it.....

[Darkworld Ark]

If they have a Hollywood wonder, it'll proboly be like it was in CtP, & will give you money from enemy cities with television, & will also give cities with the television improvment a small culture amount of your culture (possibly per turn) to said cities, therefore increasing the possibility of culture flips.