Very Huge Maps - Page 3

Willem · August 23, 2002, 15:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Menkerios
I keep hearing people talk about mega-, ultra-, and giga- maps. Theres bigger than huge? How do I use it?
Thanks

The largest map available is 256 X 256, while what Firaxis calls huge is, I believe 180 X180. I'm not positive on that since the first thing I did when I got the game was max out the map size. I would recommend though that you keep it down to 8 civs, 16 takes waaaaay to long.

candidgamera · August 24, 2002, 10:32

Is it really the map size or the huge number of unecessary zombie units the ai builds that slows the game down?
Its seemed to me more like the latter.

Have PIII 450 with 256MB RAM. With 1.29 running, I juiced up the maintenance costs by gov, probably too much (2/unit in despot is too hard for the ai) their armies are pretty small am to 1900 now with 5 civs total and its about a minute between turns, not bad at all. This is on about a 200x200 map. Am using 5 because 6 seemed to make the game go too slow before - more units, am now thinking can go higher number even with slightly less maint cost.

Also from the readme on 1.29 it says they improved the game speed by improving how the game handles out of sight movement by the ai. Have also noticed this too: that game drag is worse the more ai zombie armies you can see.

Willem · August 24, 2002, 10:59

Quote:

Originally posted by candidgamera
Is it really the map size or the huge number of unecessary zombie units the ai builds that slows the game down?
Its seemed to me more like the latter.

It was confirmed by Firaxis that it is mainly the map size, though of course number of civs/units counts as well. It has to do with the pathfinding for the units. The larger the map, the more possibilities for movement, and so more calculations the game has to consider.

candidgamera · August 24, 2002, 15:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

It was confirmed by Firaxis that it is mainly the map size, though of course number of civs/units counts as well. It has to do with the pathfinding for the units. The larger the map, the more possibilities for movement, and so more calculations the game has to consider.

So its a bit of a two-for in a bad way, cascading effect, sounds like fewer units though would still help somewhat.

Thrawn05 · August 24, 2002, 17:12

Here is my complete specs on both my computer and laptop.

Computer:
Dell Dimension XPS-T550
OS: Windows XP Pro (upgraded from Win98SE)
CPU: P3 550MHz
RAM: 256 MB (3 DIMMs, 2x64, 1x128)
BUS: 100MHz
Sound: Sound Blaster 16 PCI
Video: nVidia GF2 MX 200 32MB (If I could, I'd go back to my vodoo3 300 16MB if nVidia would give WinXP drivers!

)
HD (C): 13.1 GB NTFS 66ATA Master Primary
HD (D): 15 GB NTFS 66ATA Slave Primary
CD (E): 8x DVD Master Secondary
CD (F): 4x,2x,24x CDRW Slave Secondary

Programs in system tray:
Local Area Connetion
Power Control Icon
Volume
MS Sidewinder (if I close this, the joystick dies until I restart)

Laptop:
Dell Inspiron 2650
OS: WindowsXP Pro
CPU: P4m 1.6GHz
RAM: 256MB Sodium RAM
BUS: 400MHz (I'm not sure about this, but this is what the book says. I suspect it's really 200MHz)
Sound: SigmaTel Audio (Internal Speakers)
Video: NeVidea GF2 Go 32MB (14" Screen, max 1024x768)
HD (C): 30GB NTFS
CD (D): 8x DVD (built in)
ED (E): External USB Powered Zip 250

Programs in tray
Local Area Connection
AC/Battery
CookieCop2
ZoneAlarm3
Remove USB Device
IntelliPoint (If I close this, the wheel on the mouse dies... not cool)
Volume

Notes

Due to BIOS problems on the computer, I need to use the laptop to act as Modem... so I just use the laptop for the net. They are connect via direct Ethernet cable connection (God bless P2P!). Also, this has been told to me by Dell and nVidia, that nVidia graphic card drivers don't support WinXP. nVidia claims to be working on a "patch", the nVidia represenative wound't give me a time table when this will be released (I WANT 3DFX BACK nVidia!!!).

I also would like to say, that I don't really see that much purformance difference between the two. Except when it comes to the editor... placing even roads on my computers takes forever due to the undo/redo feature.

Bleyn · August 24, 2002, 18:16

When bumping the huge map up to 256x256 are all y'all changing the tech rate, distance between civs or the optimal number of cities?

Thrawn05 · August 25, 2002, 09:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Bleyn
When bumping the huge map up to 256x256 are all y'all changing the tech rate, distance between civs or the optimal number of cities?

I only increased the anchient era cost by 10, middel age by 5, industrial by 2, and modern age by 1. This allows anchient era to be a little less fast for me. Since the AI seems to move within about 80 turns, while I'm still stuck researching pottery

Thrawn05 · August 25, 2002, 09:21

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
the main reason would be that win98 is so long around and when fully patched is so stable , ....

I agree to a point. I never had a BSD, however it handled memory very poorly and I needed to download FreeMem STD in order to increase performace. Then I switched to WinXP. All of my DOS games still work on the comptuer (not on the laptop, due to the fact the DOS games can't see a SB compatible sound card).

Panag · August 25, 2002, 10:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Bleyn
When bumping the huge map up to 256x256 are all y'all changing the tech rate, distance between civs or the optimal number of cities?

hi ,

tech rate , well you can use accelerated building , normally a tech rate of 300 will do , 16 civs , distance 36 , max amount of cities , max turns for a tech 80 , min 2 , ...

have a nice day

Willem · August 25, 2002, 11:00

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
the main reason would be that win98 is so long around and when fully patched is so stable , ....

Alright Panang, thanks for my early morning joke! Win98 stable, that's a good one. You should get an act together and hit Las Vegas! You have a very subtle use of irony.

Seriously though, I recommend XP Pro, I haven't had a single system crash since I've installed it. I probably was getting one a week with 98, sometimes bad enough that I would have to wipe my system partition, and reinstall my OS from scratch. That happened twice in one week a while back, when I finally got fed up and decided to swith to XP. I've had no problems since.

Panag · August 25, 2002, 11:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Alright Panang, thanks for my early morning joke! Win98 stable, that's a good one. You should get an act together and hit Las Vegas! You have a very subtle use of irony.

Seriously though, I recommend XP Pro, I haven't had a single system crash since I've installed it. I probably was getting one a week with 98, sometimes bad enough that I would have to wipe my system partition, and reinstall my OS from scratch. That happened twice in one week a while back, when I finally got fed up and decided to swith to XP. I've had no problems since.

hi ,

"fully patched" , ..........

as XP , well its good but still needs so much work , ....

oh btw , since mac X came out , running 24 / 24 , 7 / 7 , and still not a chrash , now that is something stable , ....

have a nice day

Thrawn05 · August 25, 2002, 12:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Alright Panang, thanks for my early morning joke! Win98 stable, that's a good one. You should get an act together and hit Las Vegas! You have a very subtle use of irony.

Win98 was just as stable as Win95. Win98SE was far more stable, and the most stable of the non NT/2K windows OS. Win95 and WinME were on par for stability.

And I suggest to everyone who has WinME, to buy Win98SE and switch at once. THe problem with WinME is that it handles system files poorly, and can even "loose" some files I've been told by one of my co-workers.

Panag · August 25, 2002, 12:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05

Win98 was just as stable as Win95. Win98SE was far more stable, and the most stable of the non NT/2K windows OS. Win95 and WinME were on par for stability.

And I suggest to everyone who has WinME, to buy Win98SE and switch at once. THe problem with WinME is that it handles system files poorly, and can even "loose" some files I've been told by one of my co-workers.

hi ,

indeed that is true

win98SE (like there are still people around with FE

)

is stable , actually more then ME , and actually when fully patched it is not such a bad system

now most of the problems start with the patch , if you have lets say a French version you can use the US patch , ....they simply did not make it , ...

there are parts of the patch that shall do good , yet other parts shall give a language conflict , ....
the best to do is buy only a US , if a shop has a local language version they should be able to get the US or international english also , ...

stay away from the english version build in Ireland and the UK ones they are NOT the same and give software conflicts , ...

have a nice day

Qilue · August 25, 2002, 13:54

I've been running win98se now for about 3 years and I've found it very stable. BSODs are rare, but I also avoid installing crapware which does contribute to instability.

But, my favourite of the 9x series was 95c. It was stable and fast but with the advent of 98, display drivers became difficult to configure and later almost incompatible so I had to upgrade to 98se.

asleepathewheel · August 25, 2002, 13:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem
Seriously though, I recommend XP Pro, I haven't had a single system crash since I've installed it. I probably was getting one a week with 98, sometimes bad enough that I would have to wipe my system partition, and reinstall my OS from scratch. That happened twice in one week a while back, when I finally got fed up and decided to swith to XP. I've had no problems since.

Is XP Pro more stable than XP Home? I haven't had any large problems with XP so far, but now have the opportunity (through a fiance at a new grad school) to purchase XP pro for 5 bucks (also Office XP Professional for 5

)

Hopefully they will continue to tweak the issues that cause the game to slowdown, in PTW. I can really tell a difference with the latest patch, not perfect, but better.

Panag · August 25, 2002, 14:18

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Is XP Pro more stable than XP Home? I haven't had any large problems with XP so far, but now have the opportunity (through a fiance at a new grad school) to purchase XP pro for 5 bucks (also Office XP Professional for 5

)

Hopefully they will continue to tweak the issues that cause the game to slowdown, in PTW. I can really tell a difference with the latest patch, not perfect, but better.

hi ,

yes it is

the upgrade not , but the full new pack is very stable

BUT and this is to all windows users who dont know it yet , microsoft has found some large problems , there is a new update to toggle the problem , ...

yes all there OS since 98
and browsers

have a nice day

asleepathewheel · August 25, 2002, 15:25

I know there is a max number of cities: 512

Is there a max number of units allowed? I think I remember thiere was a limit in at least ToT if not the others.

Has anyone reached this? I have reached the max cities several times, but have never topped out the units.

Panag · August 25, 2002, 15:29

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I know there is a max number of cities: 512

Is there a max number of units allowed? I think I remember thiere was a limit in at least ToT if not the others.

Has anyone reached this? I have reached the max cities several times, but have never topped out the units.

hi ,

well there are "human players" who have 2500 units , together with an AI that has a total of about 4000 , ....

so there is no actuall limit , ...

however when using the editor and letting everyone start with 500 units the game chrashes a couple thousand years later , for no reason , ....could this be because of the units

an answer from Firaxis would be nice here

have a nice day

asleepathewheel · August 25, 2002, 15:37

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

well there are "human players" who have 2500 units , together with an AI that has a total of about 4000 , ....

so there is no actuall limit , ...

however when using the editor and letting everyone start with 500 units the game chrashes a couple thousand years later , for no reason , ....could this be because of the units

an answer from Firaxis would be nice here

have a nice day

Cool

I'm glad there is either no limit or a huge number, I could see that taken advantage of pretty easily, and that would be more harmful than taking advantage of the city limit.

Panag · August 25, 2002, 15:39

hi ,

there is a limit on the total amount of units you start with , each type of unit with a max of 25

have a nice day

asleepathewheel · August 25, 2002, 15:42

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

there is a limit on the total amount of units you start with , each type of unit with a max of 25

have a nice day

Thats unfortunate. It would be interesting and/or fun to give each player 100 or so warriors and cut out the tech tree and see who wins. Similar to a game in Red Alert, low tech, units only battle. woudl be a sweet option.

Panag · August 25, 2002, 15:49

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Thats unfortunate. It would be interesting and/or fun to give each player 100 or so warriors and cut out the tech tree and see who wins. Similar to a game in Red Alert, low tech, units only battle. woudl be a sweet option.

hi ,

well you can start with 25 warriors and 25 spearman , etc , ....

however you can adjust the number of starting units also in the editor , so many of type this and so , together with the scenario ones , ....

this way you could do it

have a nice night

Thrawn05 · August 25, 2002, 16:38

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Is XP Pro more stable than XP Home? I haven't had any large problems with XP so far, but now have the opportunity (through a fiance at a new grad school) to purchase XP pro for 5 bucks (also Office XP Professional for 5

)

Hopefully they will continue to tweak the issues that cause the game to slowdown, in PTW. I can really tell a difference with the latest patch, not perfect, but better.

Kernel wise, Pro and Home are the same. Pro was designed for those who came from the NT/2K OSs, while Home is ment for those who came from 98SE/ME.

Home is basicly a crippled Pro, a Windows ME with a Win2K kernal if you will. If you have a home network, then you MUST use Pro, else you like a crippled network.
Pro is basicly a Windows 2k with a 98SE enviroment for 3D/Game programs. Although most games these days can work well on Win2k (such as Q3), it lacks support for DOS/Win95 programs.

I recommend Pro for those reasons, and with the fact that it comes with a wide range of tools to help diagnose problems, such as Events Viewer.

98SE is still the OS of choice for a gamer platform, and for those who have a CPU that's slower then a P3 500MHz and 128 or less RAM. However, if you are more then 500MHz and at least 256MB RAM and a decent size HD, then I would suggest upgrading.

Thrawn05 · August 25, 2002, 16:44

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Thats unfortunate. It would be interesting and/or fun to give each player 100 or so warriors and cut out the tech tree and see who wins. Similar to a game in Red Alert, low tech, units only battle. woudl be a sweet option.

That would be great, but how do you suppose you cut out the tech tree? I've tried that before... Civ3 don't like it.

asleepathewheel · August 25, 2002, 16:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05

That would be great, but how do you suppose you cut out the tech tree? I've tried that before... Civ3 don't like it.

Well, even if you didn't cut out the tech tree, couldn't you take out all the units that they grant? Of course, the AI would still research, thus slowing it down.

What I was more thinking was:

tiny map

16 civs

100-200 warriors each

sounds fun

asleepathewheel · August 25, 2002, 17:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05
98SE is still the OS of choice for a gamer platform, and for those who have a CPU that's slower then a P3 500MHz and 128 or less RAM. However, if you are more then 500MHz and at least 256MB RAM and a decent size HD, then I would suggest upgrading.

Any problems upgrading from home to professional? should I get the full edition or the upgrade?

I have a 1.7ghz, 384 rdram (wish those prices would drop), should be ok. need to get more ram to run the game and other tasks faster

Panag · August 25, 2002, 17:32

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Well, even if you didn't cut out the tech tree, couldn't you take out all the units that they grant? Of course, the AI would still research, thus slowing it down.

What I was more thinking was:

tiny map

16 civs

100-200 warriors each

sounds fun

hi ,

it goes , no problem , BUT , unlike in red alert C&C tibsun you cant move your units in groups , ....

in C&C tibsun you just click with the mouse and open a "group" window , ALL the units in the window shall got to Y or attack target X , even if target X is on the move and dissapears out of vision , ....

have a nice day

neonext · August 25, 2002, 17:41

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Any problems upgrading from home to professional? should I get the full edition or the upgrade?

I have a 1.7ghz, 384 rdram (wish those prices would drop), should be ok. need to get more ram to run the game and other tasks faster

i shudder every time i hear someone suggesting Win 95/98/98SE/ME as an OS. Gamer or not, once you live with XP there is no going back

Willem · August 25, 2002, 20:36

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

"fully patched" , ..........

as XP , well its good but still needs so much work , ....

oh btw , since mac X came out , running 24 / 24 , 7 / 7 , and still not a chrash , now that is something stable , ....

have a nice day

Mac's OS has always been more stable than Windows, though I hear OS X is pretty buggy itself. Don't know from personal experience, just something I've heard.

Willem · August 25, 2002, 20:40

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Is XP Pro more stable than XP Home? I haven't had any large problems with XP so far, but now have the opportunity (through a fiance at a new grad school) to purchase XP pro for 5 bucks (also Office XP Professional for 5

)

Hopefully they will continue to tweak the issues that cause the game to slowdown, in PTW. I can really tell a difference with the latest patch, not perfect, but better.

The Pro versions of Windows are always more stable than the consumer versions. That's why they cost so much more. It's geared to businesses, who need something that's reliable.