Expel Units--the return of the Boot

[Ijuin]

I would like to see the player's military units able to expel units of other civs. Basically, if an AI civ moves units into your territory, and you are neither at war, nor have an ROP agreement, you can move your units onto them like a normal attack, but you will be given the option of either declaring war OR immediatally expelling the AI units. Expelled units will instantly teleport to the nearest city of their own Civ. This can be done with no reputation penalty, although repeatedly expelling a Civ's units will tend to lower their regard for you since it annoys them.

[Cookie Monster]

I agree. Loved this option in Civ2 and the CtP series. I believe it was even present in SMAC/X. Bring it back to Civ3!

[dunk]

It was only possible to expel the spy or diplomat units in Civ II. I beleive SMAC was the same way. You couldn't expel a tank or archer. ZOC made it much easier to keep regular military units out of your territory.

What I would like to see:

1) Every time you ask a civ to remove its troops, a option comes up, "Leave or declare war." or "Please leave".

2) Very good idea about the units returning to a city belonging to the same civ. The capital would be my choice.

[Carver]

Originally posted by dunk


1) Every time you ask a civ to remove its troops, a option comes up, "Leave or declare war." or "Please leave".

Yes, that would be much better than the near random system we have now. As for the original post, yes an expel feature should be in. In CTP you could expel any non-military unit, c3 should at least do that.

[epikur]

an auto expel toggle button would be nice

- you auto expelled english knight near kansas
- you auto expelled german fighter
- you auto expelled dumb dutch worker but they have now declared war


:/

[Optimizer]

Good idea!

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by dunk
2) Very good idea about the units returning to a city belonging to the same civ. The capital would be my choice.

I like your ideas, but I could see myself really getting hosed if my units were shipped back to the capitol. Like my forces are waiting just outside their territory, their culture expands, and suddenly I either go to war or the units are back home. Hmm., of course a slight adjustment in my tactics and this would not be a problem.

[Panag]

hi ,

great , ... , it should cost some money , and only a special unit should be able to do it , ...- spy

have a nice day

[Galvatron]

Yes this is an option we need urgently it's more than annoying all those foreign units march through your territory I think all units should be capable of doing it but it should be logical because I doubt very much that an archer-unit is able to expel a tank-battalion they would more or less laugh at him.

Regarding the idea of a special unit: Hmm perhaps a unit called “The Expeller” so you have a diplomatic options that says: “Be nice or I will call the Expeller”

[Panag]

Originally posted by Galvatron
Yes this is an option we need urgently it's more than annoying all those foreign units march through your territory I think all units should be capable of doing it but it should be logical because I doubt very much that an archer-unit is able to expel a tank-battalion they would more or less laugh at him.

Regarding the idea of a special unit: Hmm perhaps a unit called “The Expeller” so you have a diplomatic options that says: “Be nice or I will call the Expeller”

hi ,

, intresting , ....

we need a additional type of warning then the one we have now , ....

yeah it would be a great add on

have a nice day

[Mannamagnus]

Originally posted by epikur
- you auto expelled dumb dutch worker but they have now declared war


:/

I'm a dumb Dutch worker and would like to be expelled to an island in the South Pacific. Bora Bora would do nicely.

[jsw363]

I hate the way in which units are expelled from territory. Often I am stuck in no man's land surrounded by another's territory. There is no way to leave without inciting a war, so my unit is essentially trapped. It's also a bit unrealistic when dealing with islands that someone is just teleported across many ocean tiles to a free square without a ship. Mirabile Dictu!

This is definitely something that needs to be fixed.

[Firebird]

Originally posted by dunk
It was only possible to expel the spy or diplomat units in Civ II. I beleive SMAC was the same way. You couldn't expel a tank or archer. ZOC made it much easier to keep regular military units out of your territory.

What I would like to see:

1) Every time you ask a civ to remove its troops, a option comes up, "Leave or declare war." or "Please leave".

2) Very good idea about the units returning to a city belonging to the same civ. The capital would be my choice.

1) I totally agree. That and perhaps some kind of auto button would be nice.

2) I think it should simply return to the nearest of your cities. You could still end up having a unit sent half around the globe though.

[NY Hoya]

it should return your units to the last tile of unclaimed territory/your own territory that those units occupied.

[Kampus majore]

Originally posted by epikur
- you auto expelled dumb dutch worker but they have now declared war
:/

Excuse me? Hah, darn right they declared war and they will kick your a$$!

[Hagbart]

I don't like this, ZOC would be a better to have.

[sun_tzu_159]

Hi all,
It is a great idea to have some options in this direction. Here are a few ideas.
The idea of ZOC restricting movements should only be applied to fixed installations such as forts and cities, i.e. you must attack and destroy/take-over the installation before you can proceed past it into the territory. Of course you could also go round the ZOC or end your turn outside the ZOC after trespassing, just like borders in the current game.
To prevent the clogging up of movement and exploration new explorer type units would have to be used. These without the ability to carry out military actions but still pass through an enemies territory without causing diplomatic incidents.
A 'no trespass' agreement could be added to the diplomatic options which would nicely compliment the 'free passage' agreement. Once this is in place units coming into ZOC areas are automatically expelled to some location, probably last tile visited before trespass. It would of course still be possible to pass through ZOC as long as turn does not end there.
Anyway, just a few thoughts.
Thanks for reading
SunTzu.

[Firebird]

Originally posted by sun_tzu_159
A 'no trespass' agreement could be added to the diplomatic options which would nicely compliment the 'free passage' agreement. Once this is in place units coming into ZOC areas are automatically expelled to some location, probably last tile visited before trespass.

I think this 'no trespass' agreement should apply to borders instead of ZOC's or at least there should be one for each. The 'no trespass' agreement for borders should mean that a unit cannot move inside the other civ's borders without an automatic declaration of war.

So if you are trying to move a unit into an area controlled by a civ, whith whom you have a 'no trespass' agreement, you will be prompted:
"We have a 'no trespass' agreement with XXX. Do you whish to declare war?"

This would be a great way to be freed off the tedious work of saying "Get of my land" to everybody.

[zulu9812]

Nothing but a thumb's up for this proposal . I can't stand the way the AI blatantly walks all over your territory, and then doesn't live by it's own rules.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by Hagbart
I don't like this, ZOC would be a better to have.

I definitely disagree with this. ZOC was incredibly annoying in CivII (and I think it was in CivI). All it succeeded in doing was clusterf***ing the map so that you couldn't walk anywhere.

Originally posted by sun_tzu_159
The idea of ZOC restricting movements should only be applied to fixed installations such as forts and cities, i.e. you must attack and destroy/take-over the installation before you can proceed past it into the territory.

Now this is a good idea. It makes sense too, because forts and cities would allow a much greater line of visibility and ZOC than some unit sitting in the middle of nowhere.

I definitely concur on the expulsion of workers and settlers. Now since these units are quite often escorted by military units, I must also add that something must be done to expel military units. You can't really implement a "no trespass" treaty, because it would likely completely prevent another Civ's units from entering your territory, which defeats the purpose of having sneak attacks that ruin your rep. If it didn't do this, then it would probably trigger a message box similar to when you contact a Civ and tell them to leave, which would likely lead them to either declare war or ignore the request (as usual).

SO...the best solution would be to have the option to expel another Civ's units with any of your own units, and they would either be sent to the nearest square not owned by you or another Civ (unless it is themselves), or to send them to their nearest city. It does make sense that they could be expelled across an ocean, because we've expelled diplomats many times from the US, and we don't just send them to Boston from, say, New York. We send them to their nearest territory, whether it be their home country or their nearest embassy outside of our country.

[Firebird]

One would still get a bad rep. if the no-trespass was inside the 20-turns period. And after the 20-turns an enemy could still sneakattack, but not directly at your cities. The attack would have to happen across the borderline, or he could simply choose to walk over the border, which then would be a declaration of war.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by Firebird
One would still get a bad rep. if the no-trespass was inside the 20-turns period. And after the 20-turns an enemy could still sneakattack, but not directly at your cities. The attack would have to happen across the borderline, or he could simply choose to walk over the border, which then would be a declaration of war.

But other Civs aren't supposed to trespass as it is without a RoP, which kinda defeats the point of having a no-trespass treaty. If an AI walks through your territory with a RoP and you ask them to leave, they have to leave without taking a huge hit on reputation. The game considers it a serious violation if they sneak attack, much like violating a RoP.

Unless the treaty completely disallows the units to even attempt entry into your territory (which I think is a bad idea), there's really no point in having it.

[Nemesis]

1) Every time you ask a civ to remove its troops, a option comes up, "Leave or declare war." or "Please leave".

Good idea.

What about a one-sided ROP?

Btw, how do I get a picture/text in the left border?

____________________
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Firebird
One would still get a bad rep. if the no-trespass was inside the 20-turns period. And after the 20-turns an enemy could still sneakattack, but not directly at your cities. The attack would have to happen across the borderline, or he could simply choose to walk over the border, which then would be a declaration of war.

hi ,

, cold war , great , we have been asking for that for a long time , after the war is over no peace deal is signed , .... this option should be included

Firaxis

have a nice day