Apolyton Hall of Fame: August 2002

[Panag]

Originally posted by Ribannah
I will refuse any votes for me.

hi ,

WHY

have a nice day

[Ribannah]

Hey, I'm your buddy! That's good enough for me.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Hey, I'm your buddy! That's good enough for me.

hi ,

so if you are elected , you shall not except it , .....

well if people vote for you , it means that they believe that you have deserved it (!)

it would also be nice to see a woman in the "hall" , ....

have a nice day

[Locutus]

Ahh, so this is the infamous Apolyton Hall of Fame I heard so much about recently? Hmm, it looks more like an Off Topic Hall of Fame to me (although it's quite surprising I actually got some votes - and it looks like it came from more people than just IW ). IMNSHO it's rather pathetic that an *Apolyton* Hall of Fame doesn't have great names like Harlan, Allard, War4Ever, WesW, Celestial_Dawn, hexagonian, Tau Ceti, korn469, Theben, Thue, or Mark_Everson (to name but a few) in it while it *does* contain people like EvC, paiktis, Ecthelion, chegitz guevara or MikeH (No offense, I'm sure they're nice guys, just not Apolyton's finest...)

DarkCloud,
Apparently you've had numerous OT-only elections to select members of the HoF. How about a special on-topic only edition? Post a thread about this in all major on-topic sections on Apolyton (perhaps with the exception of MoO and RoN, since they don't have much of a history yet) and let the people vote in their own sections. The most popular 2 or 3 posters from each section enter the HoF. That way, the on-topic sections can catch up. Kind of like the Apolytoner of the Season award we had a while ago (yeah, I know, I'm an old fart )... From that point onwards, whenever you elect new members, post a thread in all sections pointing everyone to the Apolyton Forum where one vote takes place for all, as it has in the past. This of course, only with permission of the site admin

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Locutus
MikeH (No offense, I'm sure they're nice guys, just not Apolyton's finest...)

Even though MikeH and I haven't gotten along in the past but he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. He was employed at BAC for a bit which became part of Apolyton too. I can't remember if he was still with BAC when it merged though.

[Solver]

Generally good points by Wouter, go defense of On-Topic! No, really, the guys he mentioned SHOULD be in there...

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
Generally good points by Wouter, go defense of On-Topic! No, really, the guys he mentioned SHOULD be in there...

hi ,

, but the people who dont know them dont vote for them , .....

DarkCloud , why certain people 3 votes , others 2 or 1 , ....

just because they came from an other site

have a nice day


P.S. , we could all use a bit of an history lesson , .... (apolyton)

who wants to teach , ....

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by Locutus
Ahh, so this is the infamous Apolyton Hall of Fame I heard so much about recently? Hmm, it looks more like an Off Topic Hall of Fame to me (although it's quite surprising I actually got some votes - and it looks like it came from more people than just IW ). IMNSHO it's rather pathetic that an *Apolyton* Hall of Fame doesn't have great names like Harlan, Allard, War4Ever, WesW, Celestial_Dawn, hexagonian, Tau Ceti, korn469, Theben, Thue, or Mark_Everson (to name but a few) in it while it *does* contain people like EvC, paiktis, Ecthelion, chegitz guevara or MikeH (No offense, I'm sure they're nice guys, just not Apolyton's finest...)

At least EvC and MikeH deserve to be in. And I think chegitz's arguing skills merit him entry as well.

I don't know about paiktis..

And, out of common humor, I shalt not mention Ecthelion

DarkCloud,
Apparently you've had numerous OT-only elections to select members of the HoF. How about a special on-topic only edition? Post a thread about this in all major on-topic sections on Apolyton (perhaps with the exception of MoO and RoN, since they don't have much of a history yet) and let the people vote in their own sections. The most popular 2 or 3 posters from each section enter the HoF. That way, the on-topic sections can catch up. Kind of like the Apolytoner of the Season award we had a while ago (yeah, I know, I'm an old fart )... From that point onwards, whenever you elect new members, post a thread in all sections pointing everyone to the Apolyton Forum where one vote takes place for all, as it has in the past. This of course, only with permission of the site admin

The reasons why I had OT and APOLYTON-only elections
are the following:

1. Technically I'm not allowed to post this in the on-topic.
2. Actually If I posted this in the on-topic they would elect 'new' people. If you noticed the on-topic civ III voting, no one knew those people and as such, couldn't vote for them. The civ III section is new.
I didn't post there until recently because even now it doesn't have much of a history.
3. I never posted in the civ II section because the civ II section has not had very many people since 2001

As for CTP, I don't know.

The main reason I post in the OT is becuase the OT has the most active posters who will vote for the posters.

As for 2-3 for each section... We can't really do that because then we would have too many membwers of the HoF and we want it to be elite

Actually, all the votes will go to the OT since only 2 or three poeple would vote in the Community section

I think I'll post it in the CTP 2, Civ III and OT next time, how about that

I too agree that there is an OT slant- but what can you expect. I think that even if I osted this n the ontopic, then we would'nt get those people. Their best chance is the OT since the OT has the old posters who KNOW them and would vote for them

Perhaps we should have GP's veteran's committe...

any ideas on its design?

"We many only elect 2 members a year. They must have been 'retired' from apolyton... less than 10 posts a month.

-
panag- 3 votes for older members so that older members are more likely to enter the hall
-
Thank you for the suggestions
Perhaps we can collaborate and work on a good idea for the December election
-
PS: I need help on the vet's committe idea- any volunteers for the committee (only members registered in 1970 can be considered )

[Locutus]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
At least EvC and MikeH deserve to be in.

What for? Okay, Apocalypse may have a point about MikeH, but even that I have doubts about: unless it was under a different user name or I've missed some major developments (in which case I withdraw my 'accusation'), MikeH was never very important for the SMAC Section on *Apolyton* (His work on ACOL and pre-Apolyton BAC are IMHO rather irrelevant when it comes to the *Apolyton* HoF)

And I think chegitz's arguing skills merit him entry as well.

Remind me again, was this a Civ site or a debating site?

I don't know about paiktis..

I'd like to think I know paiktis (especially from his Civ3 period) fairly well, and he certainly doesn't deserve more credit than Harlan or WesW. He's does deserve some credit for his 'just the facts madam' threads, but enough for a HoF? Same for EvC and MikeH, even if they did one day do useful things for Apolyton that I don't know about, I don't think they deserve to be in a HoF as much as many others.

That's the general line to think along. I gave specific examples but there are plenty of others in the HoF who might have been of some importance, but there are others who were more important (example: I won't deny MtG's importance for the site, but IMHO for example Harlan should enter any HoF before him).

1. Technically I'm not allowed to post this in the on-topic.

I think Ming gave you permission earlier this thread... (but yes, of course you would have to coordinate your work with him or the admins)

2. Actually If I posted this in the on-topic they would elect 'new' people. If you noticed the on-topic civ III voting, no one knew those people and as such, couldn't vote for them. The civ III section is new. I didn't post there until recently because even now it doesn't have much of a history.

Fine, skip Civ3 if you must. But there are plenty of people left in the Civ2, Hosted Sites, CtP1, CtP2, SMAC and Alt Civ sections to vote for the real 'heroes of Apolyton'. But quite frankly, I would like to see a Civ3 vote, I wouldn't be surprised if more old-timers were chosen than you think (especially with the 'older-posters-get-more-points' system).

3. I never posted in the civ II section because the civ II section has not had very many people since 2001

I think you'd be surprised if you tried... Especially if you announced in this forum that there was a Civ2 vote in the Civ2 section, you would probably see quite a turn-up...

The main reason I post in the OT is becuase the OT has the most active posters who will vote for the posters.

Other OT posters, yes. But then you should have called it the OT Hall of Fame, like I said.

As for 2-3 for each section... We can't really do that because then we would have too many membwers of the HoF and we want it to be elite

So you're worried about having too many members, but you don't mind if the people who most deserve to be in don't actually make it? (Heck, some of the ultimate vets who made Apolyton what it is today (Harlan, WesW, Stefan Härtel, Mark_Everson, Allard and numerous others) didn't get even a single vote!)

Actually, all the votes will go to the OT since only 2 or three poeple would vote in the Community section

Not sure what you mean here... You mean that if you post a notice in all forum sections to go to the Apolyton forum to vote, only the OT-ers would actually take the effort to actually do so? Hmm, I think at least some on-topic people would come here and vote, ensuring that the on-topic people at least has some kind of say in the matter. If it's an *Apolyton* Hall of Fame, *all* of Apolyton should have a say in it, not just OT...

I think I'll post it in the CTP 2, Civ III and OT next time, how about that

Don't forget about CtP1, SMAC, Civ2, Alt Civs (though admittedly, in some cases it might be better to post a notice in the MP forums than in the General ones )!

I too agree that there is an OT slant- but what can you expect. I think that even if I osted this n the ontopic, then we would'nt get those people. Their best chance is the OT since the OT has the old posters who KNOW them and would vote for them

Practice shows that this is not the case. If the OTers know the site so well, how come not a single one of them has voted for old-timers such as Harlan, Stefan Härtel, Warvoid, Michael Jeszenka, techumseh or Allard HS? I haven't been around nearly as long as some others here and I played very little Civ2 after I came here, but even *I* know about them (and would vote for them long before I would vote for paiktis, MtG or PH)...

"We many only elect 2 members a year. They must have been 'retired' from apolyton... less than 10 posts a month.

There are plenty of people who have been very important for Apolyton in the past but who are still important today, I think it could be nice as a supplement, but not as a replacement for a decent Hall of Fame (i.e. one with more than (almost) only OTers in it).

[DarkCloud]

Remind me again, was this a Civ site or a debating site?

It's the APOLYTON civ site. Not just the Civ-cliqueish site.
The OT is a vibrant part of this site. During Civ II's aging and death, the OT kept the site alive.

What for? Okay, Apocalypse may have a point about MikeH, but even that I have doubts about : unless it was under a different user name or I've missed some major developments (in which case I withdraw my 'accusation'), MikeH was never very important for the SMAC Section on *Apolyton* (His work on ACOL and pre-Apolyton BAC are IMHO rather irrelevant when it comes to the *Apolyton* HoF)

EVC- apolyton micronationalism, apolyton OT, apolyton daffy duck, old contributions, I think I saw one or 2 on the list IIRC.

Same for EvC and MikeH, even if they did one day do useful things for Apolyton that I don't know about, I don't think they deserve to be in a HoF as much as many others.

I'd say they do. And so did the voters. MikeH is/was an integral part of the community as was EVC who doubled as a valued entertainment.

I think you'd be surprised if you tried... Especially if you announced in this forum that there was a Civ2 vote in the Civ2 section, you would probably see quite a turn-up...

If mark or dan would ever post an announcement. I would. I could try pestering them for an announcement, but I don't think they will, (since they have never announced before) but I might try next time.

Other OT posters, yes. But then you should have called it the OT Hall of Fame, like I said.

Look at the members. DanQ, Imran, Jay Bee, MarkG, MtG, Ming, Giant Squid, SnowFire, yin26, Xin Yu... Good civvers all! And well known by the civ-community! And those are just the ones I know about!

As for ACers- Velociryx!

How can you deny that at least 11 out of the 37 are hard-core civ posters?

Anyways, what's more important on the site, the WHOLE site, or just the civ section?

I would say the whole site.

But there are plenty of people left in the Civ2, Hosted Sites, CtP1, CtP2, SMAC and Alt Civ sections

Those parts are dead except for MPers, Harlan Ellison and Allard Hoefelt (I don't know about CTP's sections)
And for the hosted sites, yes, they are alive. I will give you that. However, they are for the most part, communities unto themselves... Nearly large enough but not quite.
As for SMAC- I think that fora has about 15-30 regulars... Surely not enough to warrant a poll.

A poll is only good if there are 50-100 regulars, as less than 10% will vote on a hall of fame. There is no point to posting something where either
a: they all vote for people who ONLY visit that section (I admit the OT does that sometimes, but look at the list, how can you deny 11 of 37?)
b: spam the thread (as happened early in my Civ III thread voting.

Michael Jeszenka

Lots of people don't like michael , warvoid gets votes. The rest excepting possibly tecumseh are mostly alt.civvers.

You are not going to get those people elected if I post in the sections I listed, and It isn't worth posting in the sections you listed.

Except possibly the Hosted Sites.

Those people are too old. That is why I asked for veterans comittee suggestions. No one remembers them except for fellow ancients. And who would you rather vote for... Someone who you know who posts now who is likely to return the voting favor and be happy, or someone who you don't.

(This is not to say that Allard doesn't post anymore- he DOES, but [I think] Mostly in Alt.Civs and possibly Scenario League)

But many of the fora you listed are semi-dead.

An announcement from Mark and/or Dan will be good enough, I think.

I post the threads in CTP II and the OT... The others can find their way to it via the announcements.

What does mark and dan have to say on this.

Thank you

[Asher]

Locutus: The Off Topic is a major part of Apolyton as well. Some of us just do more outside of a couple mediocre games.

(BRING IT ON! )

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Locutus
What for? Okay, Apocalypse may have a point about MikeH, but even that I have doubts about: unless it was under a different user name or I've missed some major developments (in which case I withdraw my 'accusation'), MikeH was never very important for the SMAC Section on *Apolyton* (His work on ACOL and pre-Apolyton BAC are IMHO rather irrelevant when it comes to the *Apolyton* HoF)

To be honest, MikeH joining BAC and BAC later joining ACS was the main reason I competed with Poly as much as I did back in the day. In the pre-owo days the top 5 popular posters were Brother Greg, TAS, YYYH, MikeH, and me. TAS was busy being an anal beta tester who wouldn't tell us anything (which led to Imran metaphorically kicking his ass). Greg mad been on his honey moon for a long time was his continued popularity was based mainly on NIM. Me and YYYH formed The Alpha Centauri Nexus. I was hoping the belief would be that ACN was the premier site for people who visited the forums. That is why I created ACN with Rich. Then MikeH had to go and join BAC. That just pissed me off. I stayed pissed until I made ACN more popular than FBAC.

You see, the whole SidGames/Apolyton rivalry escalated largely because of MikeH joining BAC and me being a 14 year old who took some things a little too seriously.

[St Leo]

Vote St. Leo for a second term.

P.S. I am giving my vote to Shadowstrike.

[Chris 62]

Hmm, as the most recent inductee, I find this "why are THEY in?" stuff rather gauche.

First, I'm far more on topic then off topic (just a quick look at who voted for me shows this, almost all game players).

The whole idea of this is what the membership thinks, not what a handful of disgruntled old timers think.

Mikey is as worthy as anybody, as is Paiktis, and you, Locutus, show your short sightedness by non research, Paiktis was an avid on topic poster in the Civ 2 section long before he ever saw the OT, in others words sir, you don't know what your talking about.

As for scenario league members, I was the one behind a push to get Jay Bee elected, but frankly, just becuase someone created a scenario back in the day doesn't make you an inductee, people have to know you and vote for you, this is a popularity contest.

Sorry I had to post this, but I find these comments against Mike and Paiktis quite distasteful.

[Solver]

DarkCloud - yes, the next time post everywhere. Civ 3 section, while new, has many well-known posters. To me Aeson is much better known than some chegitz. The OTF is a pretty limited number of people known... most OTF posters don't know for instance the CtP people such as hexagonian, Locutus or myself, while the CtP crowd couldn't care less for paiktis .

[rah]

Originally posted by DarkCloud

Look at the members. DanQ, Imran, Jay Bee, MarkG, MtG, Ming, Giant Squid, SnowFire, yin26, Xin Yu... Good civvers all! And well known by the civ-community! And those are just the ones I know about!

As for ACers- Velociryx!

How can you deny that at least 11 out of the 37 are hard-core civ posters?

Make that at least 12 out of 37. I've been here since the beginning and most of my posts have been in the on-topic sections. I still play MP games twice a week.

I also see Adam Smith and AH who are also well known in the MP community and have been here since the beginning and have contributed to the community.

If someone feels that on-topic people aren't represented they're wrong. In some of the past voting, people have posted links to the thread in on-topic areas and others added their own editorial comments. As in any election/popularity contest, a little campaigning is never a bad idea.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Solver
The OTF is a pretty limited number of people known...

What most people forget is that the majority of OT posters are gamers. Many of which were VERY active posters on topic in the past, and as they got bored with the aging games, migrated to the OT to stay active in a community that they had joined.

But I do agree that some of the real old timers who helped make this site what it is are being ignored.

A Vet committee sound's like a great idea.

[Lefty Scaevola]

It the Apolyton Hall of Fame just another golden apple of discord tossed into the community?

[Solver]

Ming - while many forget it, I no longer do . Sure, they're gamers, but if you talk retired gamers, they don't know the guys from, for instance, Civ 3 section. Let's face it, Civ 3 is a current game and an active section. People like Catt, Aeson or Theseus, to name a few, have many posts I really enjoy reading, and I believe they are worth getting their names in, yet they don't.

Thus, the Hall of Fame mostly represents the retired gamer community - fine as it is, I belive on-topic sections, like CtP, need more representation.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Solver
People like Catt, Aeson or Theseus, to name a few, have many posts I really enjoy reading, and I believe they are worth getting their names in,

I don't... too new, and haven't done enough for the community yet.

(This does not mean that I agree that everybody currently in the HOF deserves it either)

Thus, the Hall of Fame mostly represents the retired gamer community

No... it represents a mix of people who have given to the community, and those that have won a popularity contest That's the way it's always going to be when you put something to a vote.

[Solver]

Of course, but it was the off-topic popularity contest. It's not fair thus, on-topicers don't get a chance to vote and get a decreased chance to get voted. If Hall of Fame gets posted everywhere, it's fair.

Re: Catt and others. It's a double edged sword, what you define as a contribution to the community. They might be new, but I think that dozens of excellent strategy posts can easily be called a contribution - they help all the civ 3 players. Or, for instance, myself, I invented the PBEM Ratings less than a month after jonining, and got them running two months after joining... newbie, yes, but sort of a contribution. Some of the people who are around for 2 years contribute much less than some of those around for half a year.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Solver
It's not fair thus, on-topicers don't get a chance to vote

Whine... Whine... Whine...

First, nothing says they can't vote... And if you will note, the "experienced" On Topic posters know about it and do vote. Just because somebody posts in the OTF doesn't mean they aren't a on topic poster.

But I would agree (and have ok'ed it) that Threads about it can be put in multiple forums... I even said he could do it in more forums than you suggested... so stop your whining...

[Solver]

Whining stopped . Still I want to say, though, that many on-topicers don't know OTF, and that, I'm gonna shut up. And yes, I can see now why it should be posted in many forums.

[The Mad Monk]

I hate you all.

[rah]

Originally posted by Solver
Or, for instance, myself, I invented the PBEM Ratings less than a month after jonining, and got them running two months after joining... newbie, yes, but sort of a contribution. Some of the people who are around for 2 years contribute much less than some of those around for half a year.

Gee, sounds a little like campaigning. Now you're getting the idea.

Yes, being visible and popular are a considerable advantage.

[jsorense]

Apocalypse is right. MikeH was with BAC when it was consumed by Apolyton. He was the Science Editor iirc.

[jsorense]

Hi Ming.
Hi rah.
I guess my password still works.

[Solver]

Hey rah, I couldn't go without a bit of it, could I?

[rah]

Yes, it's my experience that it works better than blatant sucking up.

Rich

[Solver]

Not only your experience it is .