no cap on science from caravans

debeest · August 15, 2002, 18:26

Received wisdom at Apolyton seems to be that there is some cap on the science (but not the gold) that you can get from caravan delivery, generally considered to be about 2/3 of the beakers still needed for the next tech.

The attached save demonstrates that there is no cap; you can get all of the science you need for the next tech, you just don't get the tech until between turns.

I had accumulated exactly 691 beakers (thank you, SlowThinker!) toward my required total of 1536, so I still needed 845. Delivering the caravan produced 864 gold. Afterward, I had a total of 864 + 691 = 1555 beakers (thanks again, SlowThinker). Note that the beaker-bar doesn't LOOK completely full afterward, but I think it must be.

I haven't checked yet to see what would have happened on the next turn if I had arranged to produce absolutely no science, but you can easily do that yourself if you're interested.

Xin Yu · August 15, 2002, 18:39

The cap is set to each caravan, not the total. If you need 1500 beakers for the tech then at most you can get 1000 beakers for a caravan. However I think some modifiers (two continents?) can get you a bonus higher than the limit.

If you produce no science then you don't get the advance -- only when processing a city which produces science can an advance be granted. In early gaming years when there is a possibility to get philosophy from a hut, I sometimes intentionally set science to 0 before opening any hut so that the free tech from first discovering philosophy didn't get wasted on an early advance. I would first trade with other civs and open more huts to get some techs, then (usually after getting invention) set science output to the smallest positive number, this way I could get a free later advance.

debeest · August 15, 2002, 19:04

I just did a little testing, and came back to find your message, Xin Yu. As you said, you don't get the tech until the point when a city or scientist produces at least one beaker. Moreover, it looks to me as if you lose any beakers beyond those needed for the tech, just as you lose any extra beakers from the city that puts you over the top. Worse, it looks as if you also lose any extra beakers from other caravans delivered before your cities produce more science. That makes sense, given that we know you can't get two techs in a turn from caravans. (But if you're at a one-turn science rate, you would get one tech from the caravan and one from the science.)

Xin, I read your message as saying that each caravan can produce 2/3 of the TOTAL beakers you need, not the remaining amount needed. Thus, two large caravans could take you from zero beakers all the way to full. Correct?

I have so much still to learn....

rah · August 16, 2002, 14:35

I remember back many many years ago when I first started playing. (when resetting huts wasn't frowned upon) You'd set your science at zero, get as many techs from huts without tripping invention. Then trip invention and turn on the science and get Democracy the next turn. On large maps, you could accomplish this in the 2800 b.c. range. It made the game quite simple.

Rich

Xin Yu · August 16, 2002, 16:30

debeest, yes that is true. If your caravans are very profitable then 2 of them gets you 1 tech.