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Old August 21, 2002, 04:14   #61
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By 1900, Black bears had been driven from most of the UnitedStates; those that now live here are the results of relocation programs (using Canadian stock, I believe).
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Old August 21, 2002, 04:18   #62
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This thread would have been more interesting if the title had been "Baby grabs & kills bear".
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Old August 21, 2002, 04:21   #63
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Bear and mountain lion populations are certainly on the rise in many parts of the U.S. They were almost wiped out entirely, and have repopulated an immense area where they hadn't been seen in decades. Mad Monk is correct in saying that these areas have been under human control for a long time, and it is the wildlife which is encroaching. Of course such niceties have little effect on human or animal alike.

Black bear attacks are very rare, in the whole of North America over the last century there has been an average of less than one fatality a year. So this story is quite a shock to many, especially since the Catskills have had so very few bear in the 20th century.

There are quite a few black bears in my state Colorado. We are worried that the current drought will bring more of them into towns and neighborhoods to feed. We are pretty aggressive with bears from experience. If a bear is caught in town he is tranquilized and relocated to a wilderness area as far from human settlement as can be economically arranged. He is also tagged for identification. If that bear is caught again in a human area he is killed. This happended to a bear that was scavenging in the park next to my apartment a decade ago. After months of citizen complaints he was relocated, but managed to migrate to an area where there were a few people and broke into someone's cabin. The wildlife officers shot "Old #9" (as he was called) on the spot.

Some friends of mine live in what is now a ghost town, but was once a thriving mining town over a hundred years ago. It is pretty remote, not far from the continental divide and an enormous wilderness area. They had a bear in the area that was breaking into houses and cabins, doing a lot of damage. I lent them a shotgun and an automatic rifle when that bear began to drop by their place on occasion. It was pretty funny to see my (110 lb) friend Darcy in her nightgown telling the bear off at about 3:00 AM with my 12 gauge tucked under her arm. Between Darcy and her malemute the bear decided to take off. He came back quite a few times, but my friends chased him away each time until everyone was gone one night. The bear broke into the house, knocked over the refrigerator and helped himself to what was inside, quite a mess.

The more dangerous animal by far which has also seen a huge population explosion is the mountain lion, aka the wildcat, the puma, the cougar etc. These very rarely seen animals are a lot more likely to attack a human than a black bear, who usually are forced into a conflict with humans while trying to feed on other things. Mountain lions don't naturally eat humans either, but they sometimes will have a go at someone, especially a young child who is left even slightly unattended. In the 14 years I have lived in Colorado there have been 3 people killed by mountain lions here, two 3 year old kids who were hiking with their families, and a 19 year old runner who unfortunately must have been quite fascinating to the mountain lion who pounced on him. Authorities managed to track two of the lions down and kill them, the lion that killed the runner was a mother who had two kittens which were also dispatched.
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Old August 21, 2002, 04:27   #64
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Quote:
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Would you want to eat a human?
No, thanks.

I hear it tastes like chicken...
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Old August 21, 2002, 04:34   #65
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Finally, someone who understands!

Kamrat, I understood that we taste like pork.
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Old August 21, 2002, 04:42   #66
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"I would of put that bear out of its misery with more than one shot. "
And what supposed misery is this bear in? It ate a meal. That's all that it knows and cares about. If a human killed a baby that would be different, because a human UNDERSTANDS the ramifactions of its actions. A bear just eats, sleeps, and procreates.
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Old August 21, 2002, 04:54   #67
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Which, of course, is why its a good idea to remove them.
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Old August 21, 2002, 05:09   #68
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Removing you would be easier though. Bears are harder to find…
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Old August 21, 2002, 05:11   #69
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see the bears did come from Canada. I knew they were responsible for this in some way.
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Old August 21, 2002, 05:25   #70
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Bears.are.easy.to.find...they.are.large,.leave.cle ar.tracks,.and.tend.to.make.their.own.trails.

I,.on.the.other.hand,.am.just.one.among.a.hundred. thousand.others.with.my.name.

...and.yes,.I.just.lost.my.spacebar.

Dammit.
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Old August 21, 2002, 08:33   #71
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Stupidity is supposed to kill you, not other people. It doesn't qualify for a Darwin Award.
Stupidity, and other forms of natural selection, don't necessarily kill. They reduce the survivability of your germline.
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Old August 21, 2002, 08:36   #72
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Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
It has not! When I was a kid parents generally felt safe letting their kids roam at will. ( I'm obviously not talking about infants now. ) When I was 4 my parents began letting me wander around the neighborhood. By the time I was 6 I would walk a mile to school on my own. Playing with friends did not require an advance reservation.
That was an historical blip, Dr. S. I too remember being left alone, and given some of the things I got myself into, it's a wonder I survived until adulthood. Fronteer families didn't let their kids run around wild until they were older.
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Old August 21, 2002, 08:48   #73
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Does killing solve everything?
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This isn't a new community, it's bears that are new. They are invading our territory...

By 1900, Black bears had been driven from most of the UnitedStates
Ah, I see... you killed them all off a hundred years ago so it's not their territory anymore. And now that they are returning and 'invading' 'your' territory, you feel justified in killing them all again.

I find this particularily odd coming from you - I mean, wouldn't the same apply to other situations? Wouldn't the palestenians be justified in attacking their isreal invaders? And, for that matter, wouldn't all war and terrorism be justified since massacring entire populations is apparently a perfectly acceptable and reasonable way to get things done?
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Old August 21, 2002, 09:25   #74
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Black bears are not typically dangerous unless you confront cubs or they are starving. They need lots of space for each indivdiual. The bears main diet consists of fruits and berries which may mean that the population is too large for the area if this one attacked. The bears have been reintroduced into Arkansas with no problems since the early 30s. Here there is a limited hunting season meant to keep the population in check. All in all the reintroduction of black bears in Arkansas has been a success with no problems with the bear or humans. Does New York have an hunting season for bears? If not maybe they should consider one.

Generally people here have no problems with the bears. It's the ****ing wolfs and coyotes that they hate. One stupid thing that the Game and Fish Commission is now involved in is reintroducing alligators to southern Arkansas. That has a potential to be a bigger problem then the bears. Sometimes it's just better to leave a situation alone.
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Old August 21, 2002, 09:27   #75
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What's wrong with gators?
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Old August 21, 2002, 09:31   #76
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What's wrong with gators?
The only good gator is one sitting in frying pan being cooked.
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Old August 21, 2002, 12:10   #77
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Now they'll be closer for the catchin'.

No, really, what's wrong with 'gators? They're okay as long as they ain't in the swimmin' hole, and even if they is, they're usally fairly small and you can wrassle 'em out. It's only the really big 'uns you gotta watch out fer, and you ain't gonna have those for many a year.
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Old August 21, 2002, 12:54   #78
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Re: Does killing solve everything?
Quote:
Originally posted by Osweld


Ah, I see... you killed them all off a hundred years ago so it's not their territory anymore. And now that they are returning and 'invading' 'your' territory, you feel justified in killing them all again.

I find this particularily odd coming from you - I mean, wouldn't the same apply to other situations? Wouldn't the palestenians be justified in attacking their isreal invaders? And, for that matter, wouldn't all war and terrorism be justified since massacring entire populations is apparently a perfectly acceptable and reasonable way to get things done?
They are not 'returning' on their own, the idiotic government put them there!

Why were bear hunted out of the region in the first place? Because they were competitors for living space and food, and in addition a danger to safety. So it was left for many years, until people who had never known what was like to live in close proximity to bears decided to bring bears back, to restore the balance.

What balance? the land had changed, had become a patchwork of towns and farms, with no region entirely 'untouched'. Everywhere was in close proximity to civilization, and as was said earlier, bears need lots of space. In their efforts to 'restore the balance', they completely overlooked this little fact. One source I read said that black bears can roam an area of up to four hundred square miles -- a twenty-by-twenty mile patch of land. Even on a continental map, that's a noticeable chunk.

They had no business bringing large predators back here, no business at all.
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Old August 21, 2002, 12:58   #79
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And yes, New York has a short season for bears.

New Jersey dosen't.
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Old August 21, 2002, 13:07   #80
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My understanding is not that the bears were reintroduced, but rather they became protected, allowing bears to move back into the area on their own.
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Old August 21, 2002, 13:32   #81
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Re: Re: Does killing solve everything?
Quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk They are not 'returning' on their own, the idiotic government put them there!

What balance? the land had changed,
Seems kinda ironic that you're arguing for their banishment and we're arguing for their return given your Israeli flag and all...

I always thought the Catskill Mtns were quite a wilderness area (for NY State anyway!). I almost went there for a few days once and IIRC it mentioned being careful of the wildlife!

I think it's great that we're repopulating these national parks and nature reserves with the animals that were there before us - let's hope they keep up the good work!

One of the best things about travelling in the US is actually seeing the wildlife in it's natural habitat - it's something you just don't see in the UK for example!
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Old August 21, 2002, 13:33   #82
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I believe they were reintroduced, but either way, it should not have been allowed. The government intentionally subjected the population to greater risk over time, for no measurable gain.
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Old August 21, 2002, 13:35   #83
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You can see the wildlife just fine in Canada.
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Old August 21, 2002, 13:38   #84
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Maybe you should change your location field to:

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Old August 21, 2002, 13:45   #85
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Why?

I wanna kill me a b'ar!

Even though I'm well past three...
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Old August 21, 2002, 13:47   #86
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People are still far more dangerous to their own kind than bears are to humans. Anyway, the Catskills are a wilderness area. Lazy, stupid humans is no reason not to allow bears there.
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Old August 21, 2002, 13:51   #87
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Sure it is. The people living there felt safe. Now they don't. What is the trade-off that makes that worthwhile?
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Old August 21, 2002, 13:54   #88
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The bears have been wandering through that area for at least 20 years. I've seen reports on bear problems from them since the early 1980s. If you aren't smart enough to figure out that some place that has been bear country for 20 friggan years isn't safe to leave your infants lying around you are to friggan stupid to have children.
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Old August 21, 2002, 13:58   #89
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It should not have been returned to 'bear country' in the first place. It was a mistake. Now, it should be corrected.
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Old August 21, 2002, 14:01   #90
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Bears are fine, it's stupid people you have to watch out for. Anyone with common sense can avoid bear troubles, but stupid people can mess you up no matter where you are.
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