Chrétien to step down

[blackice]

Oh look daycare is out!

[Asher]

blackice, what is your problem? You keep singling out Alberta and railing on it when it's doing BETTER than the national average -- WHY? Because you're anti-Albertan. Oh, but you ARE ALBERTAN right? Christ man.

Nothing is ever good enough for you, is it? A province does better than average and we single it out and rail on it while provinces who have MUCH worse poverty problems are ignored? Why is that, blackice?

As for the Salary average, is Stats Canada not good enough for you? Or has it too been brainwashed by the evil Albertans?
http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/P...r/labor50a.htm

Nation wide average salary: $20,828
Alberta: $26,103

"do you not care about all of the starving children in the rest of canada lololol grow up haha 10000 children die each hour in ontario due to lack of money and its all your fault why dont you care wah wah wah wah albertans are killing everyone"

[blackice]

blackice, what is your problem?

Nothing at all, yours is obvious.

You keep singling out Alberta and railing on it when it's doing BETTER than the national average

You mean the oil is making it better than the national average. Drop the oil and will see. Again why are there so many working poor and poor in this utopia?

WHY? Because you're anti-Albertan.

Yes I have chatted with you before this type of moronic trolling is typical. I will say it again I love the place, hate Klien.

Oh, but you ARE ALBERTAN right? Christ man.

Raised there yup, you?

Nothing is ever good enough for you, is it?

Yes dad

A province does better than average and we single it out and rail on it while provinces who have MUCH worse poverty problems are ignored?

You keep jacking threads, with your Alberta is god, bragging about only the good, expect it cry boy.

Why is that, blackice?

Let me guess Because Alberta is the topic in another thread not about Alberta that you have jacked?

Alberta 26,103 BC 27,480 Yukon 28,511 NWT 30,071 Ontario 28,838 Amazing is it not the the richest province in the nation ranks 5th on the wage scale. Yet boost some of the if not the highest rents and cost of living going.... Keep bragging...

"do you not care about all of the starving children in the rest of canada lololol

First of all again your lack of concern for starving children, gives great insight to your over-all personality.
Second, one of my constitutional challenges is to correct this problem...So tell me cry boy what are you doing about it.

grow up haha 10000 children die each hour in ontario due to lack of money and its all your fault why dont you care wah wah wah wah albertans are killing everyone"

You need a pill...

[Asher]

blackice, Tingkai was the one who trolled the Albertans in here. We're responding to an Eastern Troll and you actually try to tell us that we randomly threadjacked it?

Come on, blame Tingkai, not us. In fact I thought we were behaving ourselves pretty well up to the point Tingkai made that comment.

BTW, smooth how you dropped the wage topic. The fact is, all of your numbers are slanted and mislabeled, you're lying with statistics and nothing more. Once people come out and take the time to show you the truth you either dismiss it because the source is from the west (no one over there tells the truth you know) or you ignore it completely. It's tired.

The average salary in Alberta overall does well exceed the national average, the only reason it's not THE highest is because of rural Alberta. They're not exactly booming with money.

[blackice]

BTW, smooth how you dropped the wage topic. The fact is, all of your numbers are slanted and mislabeled, you're lying with statistics and nothing more.

Dropped it?

The fact is, all of your numbers are slanted and mislabeled, you're lying with statistics and nothing more.

See comment below next comment, then the facts (bottom of post) from the same page you blatantly lie about in your so called facts. (lies again)

Once people come out and take the time to show you the truth you either dismiss it because the source is from the west (no one over there tells the truth you know) or you ignore it completely. It's tired.

No I dismiss all government of Alberta and Ontario propaganda web sites. Why? because they lie, go check for yourself. The Auditor Generals site dismisses them as false and backs up what I have said. Yes Asher your tricks have lost thier punch, time for a new comic book mail order debate strategy kit. See comment below...

Once people come out and take the time to show you the truth you either dismiss it because the source is from the west (no one over there tells the truth you know) or you ignore it completely. It's tired.

This is where you sum up what you have done and say everyone else did it. You need to come up with something new that is old now.

The average salary in Alberta overall does well exceed the national average, the only reason it's not THE highest is because of rural Alberta. They're not exactly booming with money.

Alberta $26,103 Canada $26,474 it does? med time cry boy.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/P...r/labor50b.htm

No they are not what is Klien doing about it? Again ignore it all you want I ask again. Why is Alberta the richest province bar none. With only the 5th ranking in average wages. Below the national average...with so many working poor, poor people and homeless. Klien is why. Love Alberta hate Klien.

[blackice]

Chatting with the local CA front runner in the area today.

He claims CA win win this ellection, why?
He claims Martin is too old, he claims no one will forget he was the man behind Cretien's stupidity.

He claims Harper is young and fresh and the population of Canada wants young and fresh.

Ok I guess he is unaware of the age demographics of Canada.

If the PC's bring in Harris I said to him, do you think people of Ontario will vote Harper or good old Mike.
He said well Harper is young fresh he has new views blah blah blah.
I said but Mike is loved in Ontario majority of the people think so.
He said yes but Harper is fresh new ideas blah blah blah

This guy will not go far here

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
No I dismiss all government of Alberta and Ontario propaganda web sites.

It's all part of the big brainwashed Western conspiracy again...

Alberta $26,103 Canada $26,474 it does? med time cry boy.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/P...r/labor50b.htm

Ah, I was looking at the NFLD numbers. Whoever designed this little system thing needs to be shot, the position of the provinces/Canada changes depending on what you select from the stupid dropdown thing.

Anyway I see that people with a university degree still get paid more in Alberta than anyone else with a degree on average, and the average Salary in Calgary is still $29K ($46K with a degree), it's those damn Liberals in Edmonton bringing us down with a 25K average.

BTW, why don't they have a more up to date census? 1995 is kinda old. The numbers on the link I provided (which is "propaganda") is based on the 2001 numbers ($684.10 for Albertans per week vs $664.90 nationally -- but of course these are lies by the western propaganda machine) .

No they are not what is Klien doing about it? Again ignore it all you want I ask again. Why is Alberta the richest province bar none. With only the 5th ranking in average wages. Below the national average...with so many working poor, poor people and homeless. Klien is why. Love Alberta hate Klien.

It's not the richest province. Look at the budgets, Ontario is far richer. It's just that Alberta has managed its finances better for the past 30 years and doesn't need to charge as much tax.

You make it sound like every Albertan is swimming in billions of dollars and they all keep it to themselves because they enjoy seeing people suffer.

[Loif]

Originally posted by Asher
And the problem with this is the majority of the country lives in a single region, and the majority of that region shares the same political opinion and doesn't really care for the true political diversity of the nation.

Which means the people who feel they need a voice too will continue to "whine" about getting their voice, and the majority in charge will keep insisting they shut their traps and deal with it because 30 years ago they sent us a couple million bucks in equalization payments for two years.

Yep, that's how we westerners feel. You hit the nail on the head with that post Asher. Thank you for expressing the emotions of probably 95% of the people in the west.

At least now when we have a federal election the returns from the east aren't coming in three minutes after the polls close here. Used to be I'd go and vote and then know within an hour or so that my party was defeated soundly yet again. I keep hanging in there though, hoping that one day others will cut their losses with the Liberals and give another party a turn.

[blackice]

It's all part of the big brainwashed Western conspiracy again...

No it is all part and parcel with normal disinformation gulible people like you eat up.

You make it sound like every Albertan is swimming in billions of dollars and they all keep it to themselves because they enjoy seeing people suffer.

No the province is and it is not passing it down to those in need and or the people.

23% cut in welfare, from an amount that had not seen an increase in 8 years, single person $449.00 per month, ok wise ass were in Alberta do you live on that? add $223 for a child yup Klien is a hero. Now how do you live off minimum wage in Alberta? You don't...add kids and you have the reason Alberta is near the top of the most working poor per capita in Canada.

Careless Harris is no different, understand Asher for these reason's and more like them Canada lost it's position as the best place in the world to live.
What does that do for business Asher?

[blackice]

And the problem with this is the majority of the country lives in a single region, and the majority of that region shares the same political opinion and doesn't really care for the true political diversity of the nation.

What are you saying they must vote for who they do not want to make the west happy? ok...

Which means the people who feel they need a voice too will continue to "whine" about getting their voice, and the majority in charge will keep insisting they shut their traps and deal with it because 30 years ago they sent us a couple million bucks in equalization payments for two years.

No one has a voice are you two daft? What makes you think in this dictatorial democracy that the eastern people have any more say than you? Look you vote that is the democracy, then the powers at be dictate to us all....

You people don't get it do you...

What voice do you want you are ten percent in any democracy around the world you are 10%. Maybe we should give all those special interest group everything they want too? After all they use the same arguement fair is fair right?

[Loif]

Originally posted by blackice
Government, you have to love Klien............................................. .................

Who the heck is this Klien guy you keep referring to? If you're going to b*tch about him at least spell his name right.

[blackice]

Loif No :

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
blackice, Tingkai was the one who trolled the Albertans in here. We're responding to an Eastern Troll and you actually try to tell us that we randomly threadjacked it?

So in the world according to Asher, Blackice is not an Albertan because he doesn't live in Alberta, but I'm an Eastern Troll even though I haven't lived in the east for more than 10 years. Interesting.

[blackice]

Yes Taki he is full of... isn't he.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
So in the world according to Asher, Blackice is not an Albertan because he doesn't live in Alberta, but I'm an Eastern Troll even though I haven't lived in the east for more than 10 years. Interesting.

It is, isn't it. I'll tell you how this works.

When you live in Canada, the province you're a resident of is where you're from. IE: If I live in Alberta, I'm an Albertan. If I move, I'm a Former Albertan. You see how this works? It's quite a simple system really.

Now, you have since moved out of the country and still clearly have the opinion of an Easterner, and in fact you now live in the Far East, so how is my saying you're an Eastern Troll incorrect?

Albertans are people who live in Alberta and participate in provincial politics. People who used to live in Alberta and now live in Ontario are not Albertans, they're former Albertans.

Much like if I change my citizenship to be fully American, I am no longer Canadian -- I'm a former Canadian, and would be actually an American.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
blackice, it's generally accepeted by everyone that The West was hurt far more by the NEP than the East. You're the one saying otherwise, you have to link it.

But Asher, you have a selective knowledge of those times. You never lived through that period. You never experienced the difficulties faced by all Canadians.

To study the history of that time requires more than just looking at policies and statistics. You need to understand how people perceived the world at that time without benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

Between 1945 and 1972, the Canadian economy was growing strongly, with a few minor recessions. The massive oil price hikes and oil shortages in 72-73 changed all of that. Suddenly inflation, caused by rising fuel prices, went through the roof. Interest rates shot up Unemployment rose. People were being laid off. Thousands of people were forced to walk away from their homes because they couldn't pay the mortgage.

The only area that benefited from the oil crisis was Alberta (BC and Sask to a much lesser extant) and the oil industry. Profits shot up. Lots of jobs were created (but not enough to offset overall job losses in Canada).

The economy remained in stagflation (stagnant growth and high inflation) throughout the seventies. Most people struggled to make ends meet. Many were forced to walk away from their homes. Many lost their life's savings.

After the 79 Iranian revolution, oil prices again shot up causing even more inflation and even higher interest rates. Again, thousands of people were forced to walk away from their homes. Companies laid off staff or closed down businesses.

This is also a period where people believed that we were going to run out of oil and that rising oil prices and the related high inflation would be a fact of life forever.

When the politicians started talking about using controlling the cost of nationally produced oil (something that was quite common), Albertans responded by saying "Let the Eastern Bastards freeze in the dark." IIRC, that was a popular bumper sticker in Alberta.

The Clark government and the Trudeau government were both under extensive pressure to find some solution. Rightly or wrongly, people perceived the times as being desparate. People believed that the Canadian economy was going to collapse unless something was done. It is from this background that the NEP is born.

In hindsight, we know that high oil prices created demand for more efficient machines which, when the machines came on line, reduced the demand for oil.

But we didn't know that at that time.

The NEP hurt the Alberta oil industry, but the oil industry damaged the Albertan economy by shutting down as much for a political protest as for business reasons. What happened in Alberta in the early 80s was not much different from what most of Canada had experienced in the preceeding 10 years.

That's the background you need to understand when you talk about the NEP.

[Asher]

Tingkai, I don't need to live through the times to see what happened. In this modern world of ours we keep documents and records of what happen.

When you actually study the NEP in depth (they do this even in first year economic classes here), and look at the actions of Trudeau and the resultant effect in the Western economy, it is undeniable that it negatively hurt the economy substantially. The graphs about foreign investment (which basically was what the province was living off of) are particularly stunning, as it's almost a complete vertical dropoff in foreign investment that set us back to pre-1960 levels. All in under a year.

I don't need to understand the background, because it's irrelevant. Anyone with an economics degree could have told you what Trudeau was planning was economically unsound and could have predicted it'd lead to economic disaster -- and it did. Whether he meant good by it and thought he was doing everyone a favor is totally irrelevant.

Trudeau had a history of harshly acting without doing much thought behind it, as shown by the Quebec scenerio you ***** about.

BTW, to turn the tables, I didn't see anyone in Ontario protesting the NEP?

[Loif]

Originally posted by blackice
Chatting with the local CA front runner in the area today.

He claims CA win win this ellection, why?
He claims Martin is too old, he claims no one will forget he was the man behind Cretien's stupidity.

He claims Harper is young and fresh and the population of Canada wants young and fresh.

Ok I guess he is unaware of the age demographics of Canada.

If the PC's bring in Harris I said to him, do you think people of Ontario will vote Harper or good old Mike.
He said well Harper is young fresh he has new views blah blah blah.
I said but Mike is loved in Ontario majority of the people think so.
He said yes but Harper is fresh new ideas blah blah blah

This guy will not go far here

And the prize goes to Blackcie (sorry for the misspelling of your name matey) for completely contradicting himself once again.

**I said but Mike is loved in Ontario majority of the people think so** You just summed up Canadian politics in a nutshell babe. Whoever is the flavour of the month in Ontario and/or Quebec wins the elections.

[Asher]

Oh, and BTW, no one was disputing that the east was going through hard times at the time. What blackice said was the East was hurt just as bad by the NEP. Even you can see this is simply false.

The east was going through a tough time, but the west largely wasn't. Trudeau's solution was to fix that by "balancing" it out, unfairly targeting Alberta. It makes so much sense, doesn't it? You've got a booming sector and a receding sector, why don't you make them help eachother out? Brilliant!

...

Only in the fact of doing this, you've barely helped out the other industries and you've practically crippled that booming industry. What the east had happen over a period of 10 years before happened in about 1 year for Alberta, and it wasn't even a necessity of the market place.

It was an artificially created scenerio from a Prime Minister who didn't know what he was doing and wanted to help out Ontario -- the support of which he depends on to stay in office.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai


But Asher, you have a selective knowledge of those times. You never lived through that period. You never experienced the difficulties faced by all Canadians.

To study the history of that time requires more than just looking at policies and statistics. You need to understand how people perceived the world at that time without benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

Between 1945 and 1972, the Canadian economy was growing strongly, with a few minor recessions. The massive oil price hikes and oil shortages in 72-73 changed all of that. Suddenly inflation, caused by rising fuel prices, went through the roof. Interest rates shot up Unemployment rose. People were being laid off. Thousands of people were forced to walk away from their homes because they couldn't pay the mortgage.

The only area that benefited from the oil crisis was Alberta (BC and Sask to a much lesser extant) and the oil industry. Profits shot up. Lots of jobs were created (but not enough to offset overall job losses in Canada).

The economy remained in stagflation (stagnant growth and high inflation) throughout the seventies. Most people struggled to make ends meet. Many were forced to walk away from their homes. Many lost their life's savings.

After the 79 Iranian revolution, oil prices again shot up causing even more inflation and even higher interest rates. Again, thousands of people were forced to walk away from their homes. Companies laid off staff or closed down businesses.

This is also a period where people believed that we were going to run out of oil and that rising oil prices and the related high inflation would be a fact of life forever.

When the politicians started talking about using controlling the cost of nationally produced oil (something that was quite common), Albertans responded by saying "Let the Eastern Bastards freeze in the dark." IIRC, that was a popular bumper sticker in Alberta.

The Clark government and the Trudeau government were both under extensive pressure to find some solution. Rightly or wrongly, people perceived the times as being desparate. People believed that the Canadian economy was going to collapse unless something was done. It is from this background that the NEP is born.

In hindsight, we know that high oil prices created demand for more efficient machines which, when the machines came on line, reduced the demand for oil.

But we didn't know that at that time.

The NEP hurt the Alberta oil industry, but the oil industry damaged the Albertan economy by shutting down as much for a political protest as for business reasons. What happened in Alberta in the early 80s was not much different from what most of Canada had experienced in the preceeding 10 years.

That's the background you need to understand when you talk about the NEP.

Well damn. A good post. What is this thread coming to?

I can readily grant that the situation in Eastern Canada looked a lot less than rosey in 1979. I just wonder why it seems unreasonable by 'other' Canadians that Albertans would scream about their jobs, their homes and their businesses being sacrificed on the altar of confederation. Is it selfish to object to being driven into bankruptcy to save another from bankruptcy?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
Well that's odd, because the timestamp on your posts are spread out on the issue over a period of 4 days.
That's persistent to me, and it's also whining when you don't like people making fun of your silly comments.

So many lies to deal with. Asher starts by claiming that I have been persistantly whining for "weeks." Now he claims four days. Even then he still lies.

I first commented on the fact that Asher had run off to another site to attack people behind their backs on 25 August. That's when I found out about it.

Nothing more was said until Asher returned to Apolyton. At that point I told him what I thought on 26 August 17:29. The conversation goes back and forth until 27 Aug. 13:29 when I end the discussion.

I make a very indirect reference to Asher's actions on 28-08 when I stated: "If you want to insult me, I couldn't care less, if it is at least done to my face." In no way could that be considered a whine or a complaint.

So Asher, at the very most, my comments about your childish behaviour stretches over three days, not four. But to be more specific, I only complained to you in about four posts over space of less than than 24 hours.

This does not persistant make.

What we actually have here is some political spinning on your part. You're trying to take something for which you are to blame, and spin it to blame me.

And for that you get 10/10 for effort.

Originally posted by Asher
Meanwhile you've now managed to avoid the issues for the most part either because you know you're full of it and want to do some damage control or you were just trolling earlier for fun anyway.

While it is true that I haven't been able to contribute comments as much as I would like (I work for a living and I'm in the process of moving to a new place), I have repeatedly tried to explain some simple concepts which you have chosen to not understand.

Here's a case in point:

Originally posted by Asher
You trolled, they bit, and now you're sitting here accusing other people of taking the low road because they bit your stupid little troll.

NYE claimed that he tried to be reasonable, but was forced to drop into the gutter. I made no accusations about him taking the low road. I showed that he was the first to drop into the gutter. (Or put it another way, just so you understand, there is a difference between accusing someone and pointing out the actions someone has taken.

Secondly, it was not a troll. It was an off-the-cuff remark.

If it was a troll, and I'm not saying that it was, it is surely more than "stupid" and "little".

This thread has hit 16 pages and that's because of the irrational over-sensitive tantrums thrown by a couple of Albertans. As for me, I'm just an innocent bystander.

[Asher]

Why do you guys have so little posts per page?

I have 50 per page, so this is "only" page 8.

And it's not a tantrum, it's mostly blackice arguing with me and nye. That happens in just about every thread that we post in together, it's just that he's so disagreeable in everything he does.

He's either a master DL or a very unique person.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
The east was going through a tough time, but the west largely wasn't.

I wasn't living in the west during this time, but IIRC, only Alberta was doing well because of the high oil prices. The rest of the west was suffering as much as the east.

And many Albertans who were not connected to the oil industry were suffering. Farmers were getting high prices for their products, but the cost of production was also rising.

[Asher]

But the high oil revenues offset the farmer's suffering somewhat, just like today with the $600M farm aid package.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Well damn. A good post. What is this thread coming to?

I can readily grant that the situation in Eastern Canada looked a lot less than rosey in 1979. I just wonder why it seems unreasonable by 'other' Canadians that Albertans would scream about their jobs, their homes and their businesses being sacrificed on the altar of confederation. Is it selfish to object to being driven into bankruptcy to save another from bankruptcy?

That's a difficult one to answer.

Is selfish to object to being driven into bankruptcy? No.

Is it selfish to refuse to help others in distress and to make comments like "let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark." Yes.

Did the Albertans have just cause for complaining about the NEP at the time? Yes.

Do they have just cause for continually using the NEP as justification that the east is still out to screw them 20 years later? No.

Is it understandable that the NEP has left a mark on cultural psyche of Alberta? Yes.

Were they justified in saying keep oil prices high regardless of the cost to the country as a whole? No.

Was it understandable for Albertans to want to prosper from high oil prices, even if the rest of the country suffered? Yes.


And by the way NYE, 10/10 for your previous satire weather report. Good to see you've got your sense of humour back.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai

NYE claimed that he tried to be reasonable, but was forced to drop into the gutter. I made no accusations about him taking the low road. I showed that he was the first to drop into the gutter. (Or put it another way, just so you understand, there is a difference between accusing someone and pointing out the actions someone has taken.

Secondly, it was not a troll. It was an off-the-cuff remark.

If it was a troll, and I'm not saying that it was, it is surely more than "stupid" and "little".

This thread has hit 16 pages and that's because of the irrational over-sensitive tantrums thrown by a couple of Albertans. As for me, I'm just an innocent bystander.

Sorry Tingkai. You said some incredibly stupid things on 'page 3' of this thread. Including allusions linking Canadian politics and the FLQ crisis to the Nazis. It was ridiculous, to me.

Also, my response to you was also heavily based on earlier attempts to communicate and observations of other sh!t storm threads.

I have said already, I have observed and experienced too much crap about Alberta in the past here and IRL. I will not remain silent about it.

Trolling and fun are one thing. Tolerating people who truely believe the crap and dance through excuses to maintain bigotry is another.

I am totally willing to bury this and move on. However, this thread and others do form the prism through which others will be coloured. I don't expect anybody to forget what I've posted. I won't totally forget others either.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Is it selfish to refuse to help others in distress and to make comments like "let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark." Yes.

Even as the "Eastern bastards", as it were, sent your company into Chapter 11 and fed you a pink slip? That's where the attitude comes from, you know.

Do they have just cause for continually using the NEP as justification that the east is still out to screw them 20 years later? No.

You're the one who brought it up and said we deserved it. You bring it up, expect an earful.

Were they justified in saying keep oil prices high regardless of the cost to the country as a whole? No.

You don't think they're justified for leaving the price regulated by the market? Most people wouldn't agree with you that have a clue how economics works...

Was it understandable for Albertans to want to prosper from high oil prices, even if the rest of the country suffered? Yes.

A better statement:
Was it understandable for Albertans to want the market to regulate the market, rather than an outsider step in and strip away profits and drive away foreign investment on top of setting artificial pricecaps to help out people far away?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai
And by the way NYE, 10/10 for your previous satire weather report. Good to see you've got your sense of humour back.

Thank you. I chuckled a bit writing it.

[blackice]

Loif I think you missed the point I was making.

What blackice said was the East was hurt just as bad by the NEP. Even you can see this is simply false.

I do not recall saying that. What I believe I said was the east was hurting just as bad at that time. Sorry for your misconception.

unfairly targeting Alberta

Targeting Alberta had jack chit to do with it. This is where you look like a whinner. It had nothing to do with targeting the west at all.

In fact Trudeau and the west were in negotiations for some time before all this. He was trying to get some concessions from the west about supplying cheaper oil to the East because of the stagflation and the global situation. The west told him to take a hike, screw the east, fvck off, fvck the country etc. Trudeau then took the bull by the horns and made it fact.

The oil will help the country stay afloat dispite the objections of an unpatriotic jerk who ruled Alberta at the time. Trudeau felt rightfully so that after the country had supported Alberta with the NOP the least they could do was return the favor with a few years of cheap oil so the people in the rest of the country could survive the gobal situation at the time. So get it right would you....

It was an artificially created scenerio from a Prime Minister who didn't know what he was doing and wanted to help out Ontario -- the support of which he depends on to stay in office.

Completely wrong your lack of history and facts is astounding, but truely an Albertan slant.

Is it selfish to object to being driven into bankruptcy to save another from bankruptcy?

More whinny Albertan diatribe, that is what Alberta was doing to the rest of the country, we had a prime minister with the balls to do something about it.

and spin it to blame me.

Part of the Asher comic book debating style.

it's just that he's so disagreeable in everything he does.

more master twisting by the joker, Asher you have spammed every thread I have ever made. You continuosly post about things you have no idea about. Then you whine when people correct you. Then It is they that argue with you, admit it there would be no arguement if you knew what you were talking about in the first place.

[Asher]

blackice, you're starting to sound a lot like the people who deny the holocaust happened. It's eerie.