Chrétien to step down

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by blackice
You give me a link to a Klien article how pathetic can you get...

Save it for the next generation of Albertans I prefer to read the truth...

A CP article on Trudeau's legacy that quotes Klein in one part because he is the current premier? You don't want to know the truth.

I guess everyone in Alberta is just deluded, right? The government, the oil companies, the academics, the banks, the scholars, and everybody who lived through it. I guess we've all fallen under the spell cast by Sun Publishing.

Plonk. Done with you too.

[blackice]

You don't want to know the truth.

It is you who are deluded the article from a pro westerner news paper that hates Trudeau.

Yup good one.

I guess everyone in Alberta is just deluded, right?

Nope not at all, just some deluted posters to which I am refering to. I lived in Alberta for 21 years most are very rational people. Most are very pro Canada, most like the east. Almost all of them have moved on from the dead Trudeau. Just some people have not, mainly because the Klien government and others use it as a rally cry for more votes.

The government, the oil companies, the academics, the banks, the scholars, and everybody who lived through it. I guess we've all fallen under the spell cast by Sun Publishing.

Have no idea what you are talking about here? Anyone else?

Yup and the rest of Canada was living high on the hog right? That is the whinning some refer to, what about NOP did not here you comment on that. In fact you have ignored most every point to continue with the same old boring woe is me non-sense.

Plonk your gone.

[Asher]

This is absolutely incredible. It truly is.

The problem here is both blackice and Tingkai have something against Alberta. What could that be?

I think Loif was on to something. You both exhibit the telltale signs of jealousy. Whether you're truly jealous or not isn't known, but you sure do act like it.

Like Tingkai's absolutely ridiculous troll about the West and martial law in Quebec (there's no other way to put it, it's like blaming India for Germany's invasion of Poland).
Like blackice's incoherent ramblings about how the NEP was a good thing until Mulroney ****ed it up. That one's also classic, but we expect such statements from such a devine intellect like blackice.

You feel the need to troll Albertans even though the thread had nothing to do with it. Take THIS thread, for example. It's like it's always in the back of your mind, and you can't wait to make fun of it. Like the girl you liked in elementary school.

And then there's the classic incessant whining about "western whining". Why do you think The West "whines"? I assure you we don't do it because we get a kick out of it. Perhaps, if you put down your flamethrower, you'd realize that perhaps there are some legit complaints to be had here. In particular I'm thinking of Tingkai's own contradiction-within-a-post he had several posts ago. He admits that Chretien doesn't need to worry about pissing off Albertans, and then he goes on to say that he doesn't like it when Albertans complain about that.

Who wouldn't complain about that? You contribute, by far, the most per capita to Canada. What do you get? A government which ignores you and a population which gives you the finger and calls you whiners whenever you ask what the hell is going on.

If that attitude keeps up over the next 10-20 years, you're not going to need to worry about Albertans whining to you anymore. Mark my words. If Kyoto passes, it'll only accelerate this -- unless some major reforms are taken.

Anyway, as for the latest (very poor) troll by Tingkai:

But lets look at what Alberta lacks:
1) Decent NHL hockey teams;
2) Culture (sorry folks, the Stampede don't count), such as, decent art facilities, famous writers, artists;
3) World class universities;
4) ; and
5) A diverse economy.

1) I don't see the Marintime's hockey teams doing much better. Hell, even Quebec/Ontario's are doing shitty. What other province of 3M people can maintain *TWO* NHL teams, Tingkai? Think about that.
2) This one is such a bogus statement. There's plenty of Culture. Why the hell DOESN'T the Stampede count, Tingkai? Millions of people attend it every year, and this is in a city of 920,000. Hell, when Collective Soul performed, 100,000 people attended that concert. Then there's the plethora of night clubs (even several gay bars in Calgary! Imagine that!), the university scene (30,000 full time students in a town of 920,000 ain't bad -- and there's always new acts coming in to perform), baseball, hockey, football, even rodeos.
3) This mostly has to do with the fact that, until the 70s, Alberta wasn't really heavily populated. It's a new province, you don't suddenly create world class universities out of thin air. But then again, this depends on what you're doing. For petrochemical engineering and the similar fields, I don't think you'll find any better schools in the world than these ones here. Computer stuff especially is taking off, and there's a ton of famous grads in the computer world who came from the UofC, as well as world renowned professors in fields like human-computer interaction and cryptography.
4) We lack semicolons?
5) http://www.alberta-canada.com/invest/diveco.cfm
http://www.wiredwiredwest-alberta.co...t_alberta.html
http://www.abchamber.ca/Doing_Busine...ng+Economy.htm

You haven't a clue what you're talking about, Tingkai. It's as simple as that.

PS, wouldn't the real Cowboys be in Alberta, and the wannabes be in Rural Ontario? I say this because my relatives in rural Ontario are some of the biggest hicks I know (they were originally from Quebec, for what it's worth). He works for the Ford plant and drives a pickup and lives on a farm. Here in Alberta, those type of people are real cowboys and win those international titles. The people in the cities tend to be normal folks, except with a much higher average salary than the rest of Canada.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by blackice

Quote:

You don't want to know the truth.

It is you who are deluded the article from a pro westerner news paper that hates Trudeau.

Yup good one.

Canadian Press is a pro Western news paper? Hmmmm.

It must give Tingkai much comfort to know how similar your views on this topic are to his.

[blackice]

The problem here is both blackice and Tingkai have something against Alberta. What could that be?

Asher the BS artist make his way back after claiming he was still banned.
No wonder I rarely beleive a word you say.

I quite like Alberta and the people, I have spent more time there than anywhere else in fact was here and there during the time in question. Were you even a mistake then?
I guess your opinion is wrong as usual, but you keep spreading the BS as to not disapoint anyone.

I think Loif was on to something. You both exhibit the telltale signs of jealousy. Whether you're truly jealous or not isn't known, but you sure do act like it.

He did not mention me at all more BS or is it just your inability to read again? What I post is facts seems to me you have problems with that.

Like blackice's incoherent ramblings about how the NEP was a good thing until Mulroney ****ed it up. That one's also classic, but we expect such statements from such a devine intellect like blackice.

I do not expect you to understand or read what I posted. What I do expect you have not disapointed me in. Your inabilty to see reality and you immature trolling.

You contribute, by far, the most per capita to Canada. What do you get? A government which ignores you and a population which gives you the finger and calls you whiners whenever you ask what the hell is going on.

You only contribute now and whine about it, by far? Canada contributed to get you there. What did, does it get? We are leaving we want more and continued whinning about the NEP. You are but 10% of the population under the same rules as the rest of us. What do you mean ignore are you going back to we have more money so we want to tell the rest of the population what to do? Grow up man.

Hey I would give people the finger trowing things at me too. This is another classic simple minded want to be a westerner lie.

If that attitude keeps up over the next 10-20 years, you're not going to need to worry about Albertans whining to you anymore. Mark my words. If Kyoto passes, it'll only accelerate this -- unless some major reforms are taken.

Yes god, this is classic of you to think you speak for all Albertans. You are just some immature boy in mommy's house. Get over yourself already.

Kyoto, hey after all why save the health of the people you govern when you can make so much more money ignoring that.




Yes NYE that editorial in a news paper sure swayed my opinion on the facts.

It must give Tingkai much comfort to know how similar your views on this topic are to his.

I guess we read and know some of the the same facts.
He has better arguements than posting newspaper arguements. Maybe you could learn something from him....



So much for this thread lamer and spammer are back.

[notyoueither]

Who lies blackice?

Copied from that 'other' thread.

MattHiggs wrong guy but nice try, it is no wonder people do not like you. Very easy to see why.

Look they started the BS club of disinformation to make themselves look more important then they are. Flakes.

You are amasing.

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Asher the BS artist make his way back after claiming he was still banned.
No wonder I rarely beleive a word you say.

It expired today.

I quite like Alberta and the people, I have spent more time there than anywhere else in fact was here and there during the time in question. Were you even a mistake then?

I've always been a mistake, it's just that as I get older I become a bigger mistake.

You only contribute now and whine about it, by far? Canada contributed to get you there. What did, does it get?

And we're more than happy to contribute now. The difference is most of Canada is giving us the impression like they're using us. The least Chretien could do is campaign here and give us the illusion he gives a damn, rather than just ignoring us completely, right?

Yes god, this is classic of you to think you speak for all Albertans. You are just some immature boy in mommy's house. Get over yourself already.

Kyoto, hey after all why save the health of the people you govern when you can make so much more money ignoring that.

I don't speak for Albertans, I'm just making a prediction. KrazyHorse and I were talking about this months ago, and we ran across a poll that showed that only about 10% of Alberta wants to secede right now, but if in 10 years there's not significant reform, 50% will want to secede. If Kyoto passes, it WILL negatively affect Alberta (no brainer), and it will anger Alberta more.

My opinion/prediction is it will only accelerate the alienation and separation movements.

[blackice]

Who lies blackice?

What lie are you refering to? Anyone else know?
You are confused...

[notyoueither]

Like I said. Amasing.

The link is earlier in this thread. The posts are there.

[blackice]

right?

Why would he go to a place that teaches hatred about him and the east?
Trudeau went out what did he get? Besides I am sure he is tired of the NEP talk too
I don't get it you don't vote Liberal, you don't like Cretien you hate the Eastern people and "claim" all rueal Ontarioans are hicks. Now you want someone to come out to make you feel important? Confused?

You do have a right to an opinion for sure we all do. Thanks for putting it clearly as an opinion the second time.

If Kyoto passes, it WILL negatively affect Alberta (no brainer), and it will anger Alberta more.

Depends if they read and don't just take Kliens propaganda as fact. Kyoto is about saving the future of people. I doubt very much the average Albertan can disput the fact it is needed. I doubt very much the average Albertan thinks it's a bad thing. Short term pain for long term gain, beside you ahve the cash to do it.
Maybe some of the budget should be put aside for the environment?

[blackice]

notyoueither

Really where? Explain these lies just posting some non- sense makes you look the fool.
Trolling is lost on you isn't it?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by blackice

Quote:

right?

Why would he go to a place that teaches hatred about him and the east?

So, Alberta is all about hating Chretien and the East?

On such ignorant generalisations are bigotry founded.

Simply amasing.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by blackice

Really where? Explain these lies just posting some non- sense makes you look the fool.
Trolling is lost on you isn't it?

People can go through the link, see the posts, and make their own minds up.

Try quoting something other than my user name next time.

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Why would he go to a place that teaches hatred about him and the east?

What do you mean teaches? The teachers in the public school are almost all Liberal or even NDP. The teachers tend not to like cost-cutting conservatives.

And as for teaching hatred about the east -- that's complete bullshit. Nobody here hates the east, many people here hate Trudeau, and most people are distrust the Federal Liberals because they have a very poor record with dealing with Alberta and don't want to improve it, at all.

Hell, almost all of us have family in the East.

Do you truly believe that Albertans hate the east?

I don't get it you don't vote Liberal, you don't like Cretien you hate the Eastern people and "claim" all rueal Ontarioans are hicks. Now you want someone to come out to make you feel important? Confused?

There are Albertans who do vote Liberal, you know. More than you might think. It's just that the majority vote conservative in almost every riding, and with the FPTP system like we have, that means everything.

If the Liberals actually pretended to care about Alberta and Alberta Interests (such as doing some real studies on Kyoto before signing off like they plan to), they'd get more votes. But they don't. They've basically written off Alberta as a hopeless province and have clearly demonstrated they don't care for Albertan interests accordingly, and that's why I think the system needs reform.

Albertans are Canadians too.

Depends if they read and don't just take Kliens propaganda as fact. Kyoto is about saving the future of people. I doubt very much the average Albertan can disput the fact it is needed. I doubt very much the average Albertan thinks it's a bad thing. Short term pain for long term gain, beside you ahve the cash to do it.
Maybe some of the budget should be put aside for the environment?

Kyoto would be a good thing if implemented properly. But it's not. It would have been a big risk even if the US signed it since developing nations don't need to sign it (it's like tying our hands behind our backs and letting the developing nations go nuts and take market share since they're not restricted by Kyoto). But now it'll be devastating for Canada.

Kyoto, if implemented in Canada properly, would return us to 1990 levels, but only because all of the manufacturing and lots of the petrochemical processing went south where they don't need to live with Kyoto. You're not saving the earth, you're going to hurt Canada's economy -- most specifically, Alberta's.

[notyoueither]

And no, trolling is not lost on me. I enjoy watching, and even participating in a good troll.

Only, bigotry and lying are not trolling. They are reviled for good reason.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher
You're not saving the earth, you're going to hurt Canada's economy -- most specifically, Alberta's.

Actually... I don't think Ontario is too impressed either, which is why in the long run, it is a dead issue.

I don't think a lame duck PM can wield the whip in a ruthless enough fashion for 100 MPs from Ontario to be willing to cut the the throats of their own constituents.

[blackice]

Originally posted by notyoueither
And no, trolling is not lost on me. I enjoy watching, and even participating in a good troll.

Only, bigotry and lying are not trolling. They are reviled for good reason.

Well then stop doing it and I then can stop pointing it out, for good reason.

People can go through the link, see the posts, and make their own minds up.

Good cop out...

[notyoueither]

I'm not trolling you blackice. I'm calling you a twot. I'm very serious.

No cop out involved.

[notyoueither]

Or maybe, bigot and liar would be more accurate.

[blackice]

Do you truly believe that Albertans hate the east?

Some obviously do.
As for the rest do you hear the East ramming the NOP down your throat endlessly? Do the politicians here blame the feds and the west for everything to get elected? I really do not think you get what I am talking about. Just read back on your threads and you'll see what I mean. Disinformation, proaganda, decades old policices from long dead prime ministers. Hummm I guess you just learned this on the street?

I lived there for a very long time Asher, you might as well say I grew up there. I saw what is crammed down people throats out there I lived it. Twenty years later you a kid slap out the same crap. What your born that way?

They've basically written off Alberta

I don't think so I think Alberta politics has done more harm to the Alberta image than any thing else.

But now it'll be devastating for Canada.

What is devastating for canada is more money is pumped into traffic deaths each year. While it is estimated that 10,000 people will die in Onatrio alone from polution related illnesses.

[blackice]

Or maybe, bigot and liar would be more accurate.

You call someone raised in Alberta a bigot?
I like Alberta and I like some of the people, the ones I know I like. Klien is a flake and the constant whinners are annoying yes.

Again show me where I have lied, third time I have asked yo to back up your claim. You can't or you would have. The reason you can't is because I have not lied. That makes your inept trolling too obvious.

Seems to me you have nothing to say and have become a flake in this thread.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Who lies blackice?

Copied from that 'other' thread.

Quote:

MattHiggs wrong guy but nice try, it is no wonder people do not like you. Very easy to see why. Look they started the BS club of disinformation to make themselves look more important then they are. Flakes.

You are amasing.

The link is earlier in the thread. The posts in question are there. For the second time.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by blackice

Quote:

Or maybe, bigot and liar would be more accurate.

You call someone raised in Alberta a bigot?
I like Alberta and I like some of the people, the ones I know I like. Klien is a flake and the constant whinners are annoying yes.

How am I to believe this?

At any rate... You are correct, but everyone else out here is wrong? Very interesting.

[blackice]

So, Alberta is all about hating Chretien and the East?

On such ignorant generalisations are bigotry founded.

You tell me, seems to me thats all that Albertans post you?
So it would seem Klien and a few other premiers out there did a got job with the propaganda.

So much for your ignorant generalisations and bigotry.

The link is earlier in the thread. The posts in question are there. For the second time.

What did I lie about in that thread or that post?
Second time I have asked you that.

Quit trolling you are just bad at it period. I have an Idea contribute something to the thread

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Some obviously do.
As for the rest do you hear the East ramming the NOP down your throat endlessly? Do the politicians here blame the feds and the west for everything to get elected?

The politicians here don't blame the east for everything to get elected to. It's just that in the cases where Ottawa has stepped in, and clearly screwed up things, that we blame Ottawa. If Ottawa doesn't want to be blamed, perhaps they shouldn't do really stupid things that cripple our economy? Just a thought.

I really do not think you get what I am talking about. Just read back on your threads and you'll see what I mean. Disinformation, proaganda, decades old policices from long dead prime ministers. Hummm I guess you just learned this on the street?

The only disinformation and propaganda I see here is from you and Tingkai.

I saw what is crammed down people throats out there I lived it. Twenty years later you a kid slap out the same crap. What your born that way?

I grew up in an oil family. My dad was in charge of distributing hundreds of pink slips himself in the 80s as a direct result of Trudeau's policy, which you sit and try to actually say was WORKING until Mulroney "screwed it up".

Did you work in the oil industry when you lived here, or was this when you were sniffing glue at the BASF factory pretending to be an executive?

I've read all about it. I've seen the graphs of inflation, recession, and unemployment from the period as a direct result of the NEP in economics classes in college, and I've heard many stories about it from people who have lived through it first hand in the oil industry. There is a REASON why it was hated so very much here, you almost make it seem like Albertans were bored and thought it'd be fun to really hate Liberals and Trudeau.

The NEP is literally a textbook case in international economic textbooks now for what NOT to do. Despite its "good intentions", its outcome was horrible for the most part.

I don't think so I think Alberta politics has done more harm to the Alberta image than any thing else.

This isn't about Alberta image, it's about Chretien and his Liberal party openly not giving a damn about this province's interests. It frustrates the hell out of the local Liberal politicians.

What is devastating for canada is more money is pumped into traffic deaths each year. While it is estimated that 10,000 people will die in Onatrio alone from polution related illnesses.

Canada accounts for 2% of the greenhouse gases, total. If we stopped polluting ALTOGETHER, there would be 2% less in the world. You think that'll help? Particularly since that 2% we reduce will just move south and pollute the same from the US ANYWAY?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by blackice

Quote:

The link is earlier in the thread. The posts in question are there. For the second time.

What did I lie about in that thread or that post?
Second time I have asked you that.

Quit trolling you are just bad at it period. I have an Idea contribute something to the thread

You lied about your own identity. Perhaps so you could skate past the opinions others already have about you? I don't know. I don't care.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by blackice

Quote:

So, Alberta is all about hating Chretien and the East? On such ignorant generalisations are bigotry founded.

You tell me, seems to me thats all that Albertans post you?
So it would seem Klien and a few other premiers out there did a got job with the propaganda.

So much for your ignorant generalisations and bigotry.

Yah, I guess so. I guess Lougheed, Getty, and Klein managed to brain wash the Canadian Press also.

I guess they brain washed the economists and political scientists at the Universities of Calgary and Alberta as well.

I guess, they brain washed Sun Publishing too. Aren't they hq'ed in Toronto?

They brain washed all the people who lost their jobs when the drilling rigs moved south of the border.

They brain washed all the people who had their homes foreclosed on by the banks.

They brain washed the 5 chartered banks who withdrew capital from the province and called many loans to cut back on exposure.

Everybody is brain washed, except you. Maybe your mad typing skillz provided you some immunity.

[blackice]

The only disinformation and propaganda I see here is from you and Tingkai.

Care to back that up with proof?

I grew up in an oil family. My dad was in charge of distributing hundreds of pink slips himself in the 80s as a direct result of Trudeau's policy, which you sit and try to actually say was WORKING until Mulroney "screwed it up".

You seem to miss the big picture, not surprising though you have a narrow view of things. How many pink slips were being handed out in the East because of the economy? How many more people would have lost thier jobs out here if it were not for the NEP. Canada would have faired way worse as a nation. But of course lets talk about Alberta.

The world economy was crap at the time but you go ahead and blame one man and one policy. Ah yes and your premiers did so much with capping the wells and stopping production. Part of a picture does not tell the whole story it's called propaganda and lies. This is what Taki and I dispise. Tell the whole story, the facts, talk about it as a nation not just you.

[/q]Did you work in the oil industry when you lived here, or was this when you were sniffing glue at the BASF factory pretending to be an executive?[/q]

No I moved to Alberta and got a job there were no jobs here at all.
The economy out here was worse than Alberta's at the time. History flake look it up before you act like you know everything.
I did not sit in my mom's house pulling my pud thinking I know it all.

This isn't about Alberta image, it's about Chretien and his Liberal party openly not giving a damn about this province's interests. It frustrates the hell out of the local Liberal politicians.

Well it appears Ontario and Alberta have something in common...
Of course lets just think of Alberta

Canada accounts for 2% of the greenhouse gases, total. If we stopped polluting ALTOGETHER, there would be 2% less in the world. You think that'll help? Particularly since that 2% we reduce will just move south and pollute the same from the US ANYWAY?

You really do not care about people do you? You cite numbers and gases.
10,000 people die in Ontario alone, this simply does not impress you does it. After all money is more important than lives right?

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
You seem to miss the big picture, not surprising though you have a narrow view of things. How many pink slips were being handed out in the East because of the economy? How many more people would have lost thier jobs out here if it were not for the NEP. Canada would have faired way worse as a nation. But of course lets talk about Alberta.

How do you figure Canada would have been worse off? What happened in Alberta was far more severe than a simple recession that the rest of the world was dealing with. The industry that the entire economy at the time was based on was ripped from underneath, slapped with a far below market price cap, and foreign investment was strongly discouraged, ON TOP of a recession.

The "big picture" is there were minimal gains in Ontario as they got really really cheap oil AS WELL as a huge chunk of the oil royalties promised to Alberta in 1932. The "big picture" is a huge, HUGE loss in Alberta and a "lesser" loss due to a global recession in Ontario. It's NOT WORTH IT. Which is why it's taught in economics in colleges now, because it's a "nono".

The world economy was crap at the time but you go ahead and blame one man and one policy.

One man and one policy amplified the problem. The analogy my econ prof used in college was it was like using a magnifying glass in the sun. The sunbeam became so concentrated on one part, which in this case would have been Alberta. Alberta was full of all those wackey conservatives that don't vote for the liberals anyway, what did they have to lose by funneling money out of the province (which was promised earlier to go to that province) as well as slapping below-market price caps on their products?

The problem WAS one man and his policy, the global economic recession was tiny in comparison.

The economy out here was worse than Alberta's at the time. History flake look it up before you act like you know everything.

It was worse than Alberta's at the time, but as soon as the NEP hit, Alberta's unemployment was 3-4x higher than Ontarios, when it used to be about half.

Look it up yourself, I'm staring at the graph in my econ textbook right now.

You really do not care about people do you? You cite numbers and gases.
10,000 people die in Ontario alone, this simply does not impress you does it. After all money is more important than lives right?

You've tried to pull this **** before.
Since the US did not sign Kyoto, all of the "reduction" Canada is doing is from the businesses moving 100km south of the border where there is no Kyoto.

It's. That. Simple.

I don't know why you even tried to turn this into "you don't care about people" -- I'm not the one who ****ed up the Kyoto accord so developing nations don't need to abide by it, and I'm not the one who forced the US not to sign it. The fact is, there will be no reduction from Canada, just the transistion of Canadian businesses affected by it 100km south to the US. Simple.

[blackice]

MattHiggs:

Oh my God, I think I just remembered something. You are that guy that got the divorce aren't you? The one that hates women and is bitter and twisted.

notyoueither:

Bingo.

Blackice:

MattHiggs wrong guy but nice try, it is no wonder people do not like you. Very easy to see why.

Look they started the BS club of disinformation to make themselves look more important then they are. Flakes.

notyoueither:

Summary. No, I am not the **** you think I am. Lies too. Original.

Blackice:

For instance find one comment by me that I say I hate women...
Good luck that old ruse went out with the last flake.

notyoueither:

No blackice, no quotes hating women, to the contrary actually.

I called you on the lie and you admitted it was not true.
Now you come here and post the half truth and continue to claim I lied even though you know it was you and you admitted to it. You then go on with the "you hate Albertans" mantra which is a lie also. No I do not I have said that many times.

Flake and extremely bad trolling.