Ammendment discussion: Changing Administrations

[UnOrthOdOx]

Just thinking this over, let me know suggestions:

Changing Administrations

Elections will be held for all officials from the 12th to the 17th of each month. If no officia nomination thread exists by the 5th, the President is required to make one.

Upon the completion of the elections, the leaving administration is required to play ONE turnthread/chat sometime from the 16th to the 18th to give the new administration time to organize, appoint deputies, and create their new offices in the manner they wish.


Ok, this is brought up due to what happened last term. We had no returning Ministers, well, Uber, and the previous admin played their final turn on Thursday. The elections were not closed till Saturday. It took us till teusday to get everything ready for turns to be played (then a computer broke...) all resulting in nearly a week without turns being played. This is unacceptable. Period. This would give the new administration time to ease into the job while preserving the flow of the game. It also FINALLY adds the official election dates. Any suggestions or questions?

[Shiber]

That's a very good idea unortho! Much better than the '5 days of grace' idea IMHO.

[GodKing]

...appoint ministers,.....

that should be changed. Ministers are elected. I think you mean appoint deputies.

I would change the ONE TURN into something more like ONE ROUND, as it may be sound like an order to play one and only one turn. It may be possible to play several with no real consiquences so lets not restrict (or have the impression of restricting). Also, what if 1/2 way through the first turn, persia, germany, france, and greece declair war on us..... We would of course want to stop and come up with some stratigy. I'm not saying this is likely tol happen, but who knows. 9 out of 10 time I play on this level, the AI kicks my butt prior to the industrial era. (that tenth time I usually win, bairly).

All around an excelent idea. I like it.

[Shiber]

You're right. The old government should play another round according to the current rules (meaning if something like you described happens the game is stopped to allow discussion).

[UnOrthOdOx]

D'oh! Thanks GodKing, your editting was to my original intent anyway. OK, fixed the first post.

[Ninot]

id like to point out with the exception of MAYBE two elections, the entire third admin was decided on the 12th or 13th

there was plenty of time to organize during the lame-banana elections by the incoming executives and ministers. They were the ones who chose to wait untill all the votes came in to tell them they were more valued than bananas. And to that point, the outgoing regime did attempt to work with the new one to firmly establish what would happen as soon as the elections were through, but nothing got done untill the old regime left.

[EDIT] The election dates are traditionally 12th to 17th, not 12th to 16th.[/EDIT]

[UnOrthOdOx]

Ninot,

Not to criticise you. You did a fine job. I was never contacted in any way reguarding 'working with'. There WERE two positions pretty tight. Imperial expansion, and City Planner. How were we to organize without City Planner? (the two Imperial expansion were fairly close on ideals) And to start public plans for a chat BEFORE an election closes, especially when against an opponent, is flat out wrong.

Now, I made mistakes on organization just the same. I prioritized creating that directory, when I could have been whipping the Ministers into shape and speeding the turnthread. Monday could have been a realistic day for a chat. We were originally setting Teusday and Saturday's as our goal, however, so it seemed to fit nicely. This is in no way meant to reflect on the past administration, it is meant to deal with a potential problem in the future. The problem arose due to the tremendous amount of new blood, and the timing of the last chat. We can fix one of those for the future.

[edit] thanks, and fixed[/edit]

[Ninot]

Oh, im not expressively saying outgoing regimes should take a week off during elections
im just saying incoming governments should be just as involved at keeping things smooth, rather than easing in slowly.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I see. I don't think we were exactly taking it easy. It is hard to get with ministers who you don't know are going to be elected. Do you have a specific problem with this, or did you think I was complaining about you guys?

[Ninot]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I see. I don't think we were exactly taking it easy. It is hard to get with ministers who you don't know are going to be elected. Do you have a specific problem with this, or did you think I was complaining about you guys?

Ack! no, i dont intend a war of the 2nd and 3rd regime, not at all.
I did defend my own regime a little bit, as i felt it slightly neccesary. And yeah, i did point out how the incomming regime could have done better, but i do think you have done an increddible job with your circumstances so far. but i said what i said mostly because of this:

This would give the new administration time to ease into the job while preserving the flow of the game

I specifically chose the word "ease". I think the outcoming and incoming government each have equal responsibility about keeping the flow of the game. I think it is neccesary that the outgoing government atleast play turns during the election process, but i dont think there should be any time inbetween the end of elections and the institution of the new government.

Basically, once the 17th ends the elections, i am of the opinion that the old government has done their job, and the new government should already be on its ball. This worked between 1st and 2nd governments decently, and other than the problem with playing turns, worked fantastically between 2nd and 3rd as well.

[UnOrthOdOx]

That's is what I am getting at. If a turn had been played on the 17th, say. It would have only been a 4 day turn around on playing the game. Far from unusual. Perhaps, I should re-write the 'ease' part. But three days from the time of election to playing a turn is reasonable for a new administration (that's what it WOULD have been without the computer problem). So, I was only trying to shorten the time BETWEEN turns. Perhaps saying a turn should be played by the leaving admin the 16th or 17th instead of 16th - 18th? Or just made a set of orders for the new Executives to work from? How can we speed the turns played between admins, which IIRC was slowed between I and II terms as well.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
That's is what I am getting at. If a turn had been played on the 17th, say. It would have only been a 4 day turn around on playing the game. Far from unusual. Perhaps, I should re-write the 'ease' part. But three days from the time of election to playing a turn is reasonable for a new administration (that's what it WOULD have been without the computer problem). So, I was only trying to shorten the time BETWEEN turns. Perhaps saying a turn should be played by the leaving admin the 16th or 17th instead of 16th - 18th? Or just made a set of orders for the new Executives to work from? How can we speed the turns played between admins, which IIRC was slowed between I and II terms as well.

Uhm... i was elected 17th of July, and i organized my first turnchat the 18th. Thats not slow at all. Just to get that clear.

Yeah, the outgoing government really should play a turnchat during the election, even days before the end, but the incoming government really SHOULD be able to play turns 2 days into its institution as well, imho. If say I had played turns on the 17th, turns could have been played by the 20th. the 3 day gap had been the norm. I played turns on the 14th or 15th (i dont recall which now, my brain is dead in retirement) expecting the incoming government would want to be playing turns by the 18th (a sunday, which many agree is a good day for chats/threads) or 19th. If i played a thread on the 17th, and MWIA wanted to start early for the 3rd term, it would have been tight together.

I think what is neccesary is that outgoing and incomming governments specifically plan the last and first turnchat/thread so it works well. I dont think the outgoing government should have to have all the responsibility for making sure transition works.

[civman2000]

The President is required to post a nomination thread no later than one week prior to the elections.

All of it is great except this part. It should not be required that the president is the one to post it.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Ninot,

In all fairness, Trip dropped out a day before your election was over, giving you a head start. Most of the other races were fairly decided. It was easy to talk to the new ministers before you officially took office. We did not KNOW the new administers. The polls did not close till SATURDAY Afternoon/evening. I know because I was watching to write the Gazette and newsupdate. I posted the thread asking for orders Sunday, all orders were in Monday night, the turn WOULD have been played Teusday. How can that really be sped up? A chat can be held quicker, becuse decisions are made on the fly, not written. With Turnthreads, this is the only way I see it being possible to maintain a flow. The leaving admin is only responsible for ONE turn. The new must take over from there. Or PERHAPS some of us are just not a good at this as you, is that what you want to hear? Not to mention you had many ministers and a VP return to office...

There was a problem, I am trying to fix it. Do you have a suggestion that will solve this problem any better? I feel requiring an admin only two days to get in, set up, and play a turn is too little. Look how much complaint there was when you did turns every other day. The same applies here. Hasty decisions help no one.

A chat on Sunday could have worked, perhaps. But it was a consensus that chats were dead, and threads should take their place. MrWIA and I don't fully believe that, but rater that some hybrid should take place, I just don't have time at the moment. Chats can be played quicker than threads. You had that advantage as well.

civman, We must hold SOMEONE responsible, or it may not get done. Who should it be?

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Ok, this is brought up due to what happened last term. We had no returning Ministers, well, Uber

I returned too.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Or PERHAPS some of us are just not a good at this as you, is that what you want to hear? Not to mention you had many ministers and a VP return to office...

UnOrthO, i hope you know i intend to reach nothing of that sort of point.

I am merely describing how I see the process should be followed.

BTW, yes it is a very certain point that it is easier to have a chat quickly after elections than a thread would be to have. and now that threads are becoming the norm, i completely understand the difference (after it was pointed out to me )

[UnOrthOdOx]

Yeah, forgive me. I have missed my Thai Chi class the last three days and am a bit on edge because of it.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Ninot - I have read your posts here carefully, and thank you for your points. I certainly did not realise the ease of transition between Trip's Presidency and your own - just my inability to attend chats meant I paid less attention to when they were played. In this Government's own defense, Timeline did stay around for term 2 and thus there was some Executive experience that could call on knowledge from immediately before the elections. This time round only Uber and Apoc have returned, and only Uber has had much experience with the chats, and he is rather busy at present.

This time around, although I PMed all Ministers as soon as elections ended, there was a delay in some of their replies due to RL constraints. Once they did respond (within two days for everyone), I was highly impressed with everyones' organisation. So this was another little reason for the slowdown. A final reason is that UnOrthO and I needed to work out a possible time for chats - everyone knows where I live and a 6-18 hour time difference was never going to be easy to accomodate. We managed to find some times, ironically, just before my hard drive had a seizure.

BUT, I now realise that there is an expectation from you and probably others that the new Admin take over soon after elections and takes some steps towards this during elections. For myself, I spent election week finishing RL work (rather ironically freeing some time for posting now ) and catching up on EVERY vaguely important looking thread. I hope that between us we can make future Exec wise to the fact that they are expected to prep for the game. I thank you again for bringing all this to my attention.

[civman2000]

I'm just saying that anyone should be allowed to make it. How about saying that "If no official nominations thread exists by the 5th the President is required to post one"?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Ok, that part is edited.

MrWIA, I really don't see how wecould have sped things up all that much. I feel that this would just be a Courtious thing to do. Give the new admin a bit of time. Especially now that school is back, and people have more RL commitments. Summer break is over guys.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Indeed not, UnOrthO, but I wasn't aware a rapid transition was expected. Had we been able to get things going fast , I would not have been pushing for a quick start, but instead taking my time with aiding you in setting up your directory and making sure positions and orders were confirmed.

If you like, just look at my above post as a noncomittal sort of piece of officialdom. Apologetic so as to smooth any ruffled feathers, but not actually promising to DO anything.

[UnOrthOdOx]

How very PRESIDENTIAL of you. Saying alot of things, but none of them committing...

[adaMada]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
How very PRESIDENTIAL of you. Saying alot of things, but none of them committing...

/me thinks that MWIA has gotten the hang of it...

[UnOrthOdOx]

Any mre feelings on this? Is it ready for a vote.

No offense to the constitutional convention, but this needs to be i effect before thenxt admin, or I suppose we could just DO it for the next admin...

[Aggie]

Lets put it to a vote it is ready.
Aggie

[Sheik]

This is a good idea. We should have added this awhile ago.