Turnthread orders for 290 BC

[Shiber]

BHQ should switch from producing a spearman to producing a swordsman (it can complete one in 4 turns and swordsmen are greatly needed).
Afterwards it should produce warriors which can be upgraded to swordsmen for money.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Shiber

We don't need a barracks to rush a swordsman. This strategy will work whether Loveshack has barracks or not (it doesn't btw). Of course Loveshack will produce a regular swordsman instead of a veteran, but beggers can't be choosers.

Exactly, if we're gonna rush a swordsmen, let's make it a Veteran one, not a Regular one.

Originally posted by Treestumpx
Off Topic:

Just in case you are wondering, Mr Farb, but using our Swordsmen swords to chop trees and jungle would ruin the blade and make the sword nearly useless (ie: sharpening the swords after would not fix them). I whould hate to see our attack rolles drop to 1 or 0

Why can't they use one edge for Jungle clearing (we sure need it) and one edge for Persian clearing?

I also agree with WhiteBandit and Shiber's last posts.

[UnOrthOdOx]

No more swords. Build horses, or chariots. Something that won't be outdated soon and can upgrade for a long time to come.

And I don't think you can produce warriors once you have access to Swordsmen.

[Shiber]

You're right, I overlooked that.
Regarding horsemen: right again. We should upgrade our existing warriors, of course, but we must not produce any new swordsmen. Horsemen will help us more in the long run, and they can retreat from battle too which will be a nice advantage over Persia since they have no fast units. They will also be very helpful when we attack and capture Hamburg.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Shiber
You're right, I overlooked that.
Regarding horsemen: right again. We should upgrade our existing warriors, of course, but we must not produce any new swordsmen. Horsemen will help us more in the long run, and they can retreat from battle too which will be a nice advantage over Persia since they have no fast units. They will also be very helpful when we attack and capture Hamburg.

Horsemen are what we need to take Sidon, they won't be much use against Hamburg, swordsmen are way better as the Jungle and Mountains will reduce the horsemen to movement 1. That's (movement 2) their only advantage.

[Panag]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
No more swords. Build horses, or chariots. Something that won't be outdated soon and can upgrade for a long time to come.

And I don't think you can produce warriors once you have access to Swordsmen.

hi ,

, ....

swords can be usefull they are the best foot unit for a while , ....we should keep them and later disband them when we are building a new type of unit , in that process , ...this will save some shields , ...

indeed we need horseman , a stack of them are good to for fast attacks , capturing workers , ....get to a spot fast , ....

together with pikeman they should for the backbone of our army , ...

as for the upgrades , ...maybe we should go after Leo's shop and at Magellans voyage , ....(naval units)

have a nice day

[UnOrthOdOx]

Panag, yes, keep the swords we have. Even upgrade our remaining warriors, but do not BUILD any more. Look to the future. I would take horses over Swords for defensive purposes given our empire anyway.

[Panag]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Panag, yes, keep the swords we have. Even upgrade our remaining warriors, but do not BUILD any more. Look to the future. I would take horses over Swords for defensive purposes given our empire anyway.

hi ,

well the idea was only a couple more , like about 4-6 , ....

what ever we have of units that we dont use we can either disband it for the help of an improvement or modern unit , ....

have a nice day

[Aro]

No more swords, I agree. But upgrade the warriors we have as soon as possible. We are horribly undefended in our east front, especially Napoleton and Geofront. It's expensive, I know, but retake cities, or worst, rebuild some could cost us much more.

[Aro]

About horsemen,
BHQ is producing a spearman in 2 turns, can change to horseman in 4 turns
Tassagrad, a spearman in 4 turns, or horseman in 7 turns
Apolyton, spearman in 3 turns, horseman in 5 turns
Napoleton, barracks in 38 turns, spearman in 18 turns (a long time, both cases)

Other cities, like Geofront, Ubergorsk, Loveshack, Timeline, Thebes, etc, are producing temples or barracks, and I wouldn’t like to change the queues.

[Robber Baron]

By the way, we should unfortify one of the spearmen in Ubergorsk and nab that Persian worker next to Sidon. I doubt we'd lose the spear, and we'd get a slave. (That's teach Xander to declare war!)

[edited: typo]

[Shiber]

Hmm... well, it's risky because the archer N of Ubergorsk might attack and win. But then again, it's one regular archer vs. a veteran fortified spearman behind a wall. I have calculated that the chances to withstand this attack are 2.467 to 1 in favor of our spearman.

[GhengisFarb™]

Miscellaneous Ponderings...
HAMBURG
My suggestion for the Expeditionary force for Hamburg:
Move the warrior just north of BHQ into BHQ.
Choose one of the warriors in BHG and shift-U upgrade (upgrades all swordsmen), in 1.29 this will upgrade the swordsman we just moved.

Move one spearmen from Termina towards Tass and move one from Apolyton to Tass.

Second turn move the two spearman and swordsman form Tass over the River of Much Annoyance.

Move the three swordsmen from BHQ over the River of Much Annoyance.

We now have a stack of 2 Veteran Spearman, 2 Veteran Swordsmen, and 2 Regular Swordsmen to march on Hamburg. March up the road to Seeburg and ignore any Persian Settlers. We'll take care of them with home troops.

I'd continue moving that spearmen from Termina on up to BHQ.

Might want to start on some Horsemen in the Four Core cities to send to Sidon.

Would use the worker in Gaia, the new one we're building in Seeburg, and the one from Del Monte (when finished on current task) to work on the road to Seeburg.

I would also suggest temporarily pulling the worker stack from Timeline (when they've finished their current task) to help on the road to Seeburg.

The whole "Ham Sandwich" operation hinges on speed.

OTHER
I wouldn't worry about any of the Persian forces within our territory as their all guarding settlers.

The exception is Robin Hood over by Del Monte. he hasn't got a settler (guess he ate the settler when he crossed Donner pass) so the AI will feel free to use him to attack our cities and units , etc.

FRANCE
I wouldn't worry about Rouen or Chartres, secure Marseilles and Rheims and be done with them. If we can get them in the peace treaty, fine.

Chartres is ours in the long run and Rouen is pretty much useless.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Shiber
Hmm... well, it's risky because the archer N of Ubergorsk might attack and win. But then again, it's one regular archer vs. a veteran fortified spearman behind a wall. I have calculated that the chances to withstand this attack are 2.467 to 1 in favor of our spearman.

Yeah, I'd say its worth a shot.

[GodKing]

Does anybody know for sure if war chariots upgrade? I never play the egyptians, so I do not know if they upgrade or not....

Wait one, I will load up the editor and that should tell....

Yes, it does upgrade to knight. Biggest difference between horsie and wc is cost (wc is only 2/3 of horsie) and wc is wheeled (although it looks like that was removed in 1.29...)

So will start on wc soonest. In the former french cities, as they are not connected they still have the opportunity to make warriors. They are cheep for the price but only grow up to be swords. What do people prefer?

For Pina Colada these are the preliminary orders:

Chiquita - No change. Pop rush ASAP
Del Monte - switch to barracks. Do not pop rush.
Gaia - switch to barracks.
Timeline - work grass tile with shield now. After growth, send new workers onto the forest like we currently are working. Do not pop rush barracks unless desperate.

Other regions I am waiting to hear from OPD, Randelnep and jdjdjd regarding specifics. I have backups already designed if they do not post.

One interesting item is that there have been several requests to build a port asap, so we can trade? this would have to be in one of our core cities and thus would reduce the unit production ability. Comments?

[Nubclear]

delete this

[Shiber]

BHQ can change production to swordsman and rush it at the cost of one citizen. IMHO it should.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Some points:

Aggie - 270 BC

Perhaps we should leave Chartres, since it appears many fear the poprush will take it into autoraze territory, and we will just waste a turn or two that would be better spent at Rheims.

Aggie and WhiteBandit:

The workers 2 E of Loveshack CANNOT move over the river in one turn to reach Loveshack (we don't have Engineering that allows us to use roads over rivers), and moving thus would expose use to attack. The only safe option is to move the workersS or SE and to support them with one of the Spearmen from UberGorsk, until they can reach Uber the next turn. This negates the capture Persian worker tactic, as it would leave UberGorsk defenceless.

WhiteBandit:

re your orders for the Seeburg worker-to-be: would it not be better to stack it with the existing one? That why things get done fast - we need certain improvements, rather than two or three worked on at once, that may not be finished if they are interrupted with a Persian or German.

Paris worker: I don't think we should move it yet. We can leave it until the war with them is over. That warrior (small as it is) W of Paris (Here It Is) scares me a little.

The workers N of Termina building the road to Chartres - let us go NO further. We could move towards Chartres and see a French unit right in the unknown bit, and that worker would be toast. And I personally am devoted to seeing that no Apolytonian citizen should be shackled into slavery! (Well, as few as possible, anyway )

Poprushing using the workers?

I like this - not necessary now, but let us keep the workers close enough that they may be used at a moment's notice.

GenghisFarb - some good posts, but...

we are using v1.21 still, so do you know if the upgrade-all means that moved units upgrade as well in that patch?

And don't worry about the Persians, but go straight for Hamburg? Maybe, but what about the terrible threat of pillaging the roads to Ubergorsk? No more Iron! This wouldn't be too bad if we upgraded all now and started on Horses/Chariots, but it would be best to keep those ropads intact in case we need more swords.

That's it for now.

El Presidente
MrWIA

[Shiber]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
The workers 2 E of Loveshack CANNOT move over the river in one turn to reach Loveshack (we don't have Engineering that allows us to use roads over rivers), and moving thus would expose use to attack.

It's true that they can't reach Loveshack in one turn but the Persian troops can't catch them since they can't use our roads (the RoP is over) so the workers will be safe (unless I misunderstood you completely and you were talking about another threat which I haven't noticed).

MWIA, I'm interested to know what your opinion towards dealing with Greek demands is (accept or refuse).

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Some points:

The workers 2 E of Loveshack CANNOT move over the river in one turn to reach Loveshack (we don't have Engineering that allows us to use roads over rivers), and moving thus would expose use to attack.

The only safe option is to move the workersS or SE and to support them with one of the Spearmen from UberGorsk, until they can reach Uber the next turn. This negates the capture Persian worker tactic, as it would leave UberGorsk defenceless.

I'm pretty sure everyone realizes it will take two turns for the workers to move to Loveshack, of course if your worried about our two workers getting into a slapping contest with the German worker you could move one of the spearman out of Loveshack to capture it.

(SLAP SLAP)"Owwww, that hurt!. Take that! (SLAP)"you Brute!"(SLAP SLAP) "Stop it, your destroying my collagen treatment!"(SLAP)

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
GenghisFarb - some good posts, but...

we are using v1.21 still, so do you know if the upgrade-all means that moved units upgrade as well in that patch?

No I don't that's why I specified which patch I'm on. However it shouldn't affect the first turn anyway as that warrior north of BHQ needs to go there to upgrade anyway. Simply move it FIRST and if it allows it to get upgraded when you upgrade the other swordsmen, great. Otherwise no harm done, we upgrade the next turn like we had planned anyway.

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt And don't worry about the Persians, but go straight for Hamburg? Maybe, but what about the terrible threat of pillaging the roads to Ubergorsk? No more Iron! This wouldn't be too bad if we upgraded all now and started on Horses/Chariots, but it would be best to keep those ropads intact in case we need more swords.

Absoulutely. The only Persian we have to worry about is that Archer by Del Monte. The rest are guarding settlers and will move AWAY from our forces as fast as possible. If your worried about the iron move a veteran spearman to take the Persian worker then move it onto the iron to guard it.

The Persians won't be here in time to fight the war as their troops are 12-18 jungle spaces away with NO roads. Persia war is Apolytonia vs Tyre and Sidon.

Munich won't do anything as Germany won't want to risk losing it and its dyes. It's not a threat as it only produces one shield a turn (thanks to the jungle) and by taking Hamburg quickly we seize a back up iron and give Germany a reason to make peace quickly. (We'll be within striking range of Berlin. We can't take Berlin, but the AI doesn't think like that)

Munich won't do anything as Germany won't want to risk losing it and its dyes. It's not a threat as it only produces one shield a turn (thanks to the jungle) and by taking Hamburg quickly we seize a back up iron and give Germany a reason to make peace quickly. (We'll be within striking range of Berlin. We can't take Berlin, but the AI doesn't think like that)

[Aggie]

MWIA, I do worry about the threat of pillaging and iother harrassment and inconvienice that having those archers in our territory causes. That is why after much thought I will continue with the plan of having our new swordsmen hunt down and destroy enemy units in our area. Also we will recieve about 4 slaves. One Sword will get redeployed toward del monte to get "Robin hood". The remaining swordmens will then attack Munich, if peace has not been declared by then. Perhaps an attack on hamburg can be launched, but I feel I would be neglecting my duty if I left
1)Enemy in our territory
2)Enemy city (munich) in our territory
The orders do reflect and will reflect this.

I've done much thought about the french front and Have come to the conclusion that both rohen and chartes will pop rush. So I will move one of the archers and one spear to relieve the garrison in Paris and also to free up more swords for the final assault on Rheimes. The rest( 3 archers) will all join the main army. Orders will reflect this soon.

GodKing: If wc can't be upgrade to horse, please produce a few horses 2-3 to assist with future operation. I would like wc but do not feel GA is desired now. Also I beg you to NOT pop rush. The gain is tempting, but remember the one reason I can't send all forces N from Mingapulco is that unhappiness will occur. We might get a unit alright, but they might have to stay to quell unhappiness. Also please keep termina producing temple, it is long overdue.

Spiffor: Can you please raise the lux rate so that we can get to size for with no units w/temple.
Aggie

[OPD]

I can see horsemen getting cut to pieces in the terrain we may be fighting on.

[WhiteBandit]

MWIA, WOW! I didn't even think about those consequences! I suppose that's what I get for writing my orders at 2am.

But my orders have been updated to your recommendations. Thanks!

[Panag]

hi ,

, can the paris workforce not start yet , defended by a unit , and draw that little chicken out of the jungle that wonders around , ....

have a nice day

[Shiber]

Originally posted by WhiteBandit
MWIA, WOW! I didn't even think about those consequences! I suppose that's what I get for writing my orders at 2am.

But my orders have been updated to your recommendations. Thanks!

No, MWIA is wrong. We've expected that the workers can't move to Loveshack in one turn but it doesn't matter, they won't be open to attack because the Persian troops only move one tile per turn within our territory (they can't use our roads). They simply can't chase our workers.

Quoting an earlier reply to MWIA's message regarding this:

Originally posted by Shiber
It's true that they can't reach Loveshack in one turn but the Persian troops can't catch them since they can't use our roads (the RoP is over) so the workers will be safe (unless I misunderstood you completely and you were talking about another threat which I haven't noticed).

[UnOrthOdOx]

Shiber, I think he may have been referring to stacking the workers so that more gets done quicker in case they get interrupted by enemy forces.

[Aggie]

I am announcing an aletration to intial paln(ofcourse uber can reverse it). If we put archer and spear in paris we can move the 2 swoprdmen and join the army in orleans. Then the whole happy group can go after rheimes earlier. I though about this because it occured to me that the french will pop rush a heck of alot of units(swords I guess) and since the culture wouldn't have expanded rheims will die, so we need to take it quicker.
Aggie

[Shiber]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Shiber, I think he may have been referring to stacking the workers so that more gets done quicker in case they get interrupted by enemy forces.

Huh?
Sorry, I'm totally lost here.
I believe MWIA said that because the workers can't reach Loveshack in one turn to seek refuge but in two (because of the river that is cutting off the road) they will be in danger if they move to Loveshack, and proposed a different plan which involved using a spearman from Ubergorsk to protect them. I said this is not true because there's no way the Persian troops can catch those workers if they start moving towards Loveshack now either because the Persians will be moving at the exact same speed.
I don't see what any of this has to do with stacking workers so that they complete jobs faster. Can you please explain?
Or perhaps what you've meant was that WhiteBandit referred to a different plan that MWIA proposed and I'm mixing things up.
Could you clear it all up for me? Sorry for being so stupid.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Aggie
MWIA, I do worry about the threat of pillaging and iother harrassment and inconvienice that having those archers in our territory causes. That is why after much thought I will continue with the plan of having our new swordsmen hunt down and destroy enemy units in our area. Also we will recieve about 4 slaves. One Sword will get redeployed toward del monte to get "Robin hood". The remaining swordmens will then attack Munich, if peace has not been declared by then.

That's acceptable. If we're not sure our swordsmen can handle Hamburg, have them fight settlers and sieze Munich. Easy win and might get us peace with Germany.

Originally posted by Aggie
Perhaps an attack on hamburg can be launched, but I feel I would be neglecting my duty if I left1)
1)Enemy in our territory
2)Enemy city (munich) in our territory

The ONLY way we're taking Hamburg is to do so IMMEDIATELY. (OT-Gen Douglas MacArthur's cursing in his grave over that "neglecting my duty" comment, his Island Hopping strategy vastly sped up the end to the War in the Pacific.)

If we're going this option we should be at peace with Germany in 4-5 turns. And Hamburg is NOT an option.

Originally posted by Aggie
I've done much thought about the french front and Have come to the conclusion that both rohen and chartes will pop rush. So I will move one of the archers and one spear to relieve the garrison in Paris and also to free up more swords for the final assault on Rheimes. The rest( 3 archers) will all join the main army. Orders will reflect this soon.

Good plan, didn't I propose that somewhere?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
WhiteBandit:

re your orders for the Seeburg worker-to-be: would it not be better to stack it with the existing one? That why things get done fast - we need certain improvements, rather than two or three worked on at once, that may not be finished if they are interrupted with a Persian or German.

Paris worker: I don't think we should move it yet. We can leave it until the war with them is over. That warrior (small as it is) W of Paris (Here It Is) scares me a little.

The workers N of Termina building the road to Chartres - let us go NO further. We could move towards Chartres and see a French unit right in the unknown bit, and that worker would be toast. And I personally am devoted to seeing that no Apolytonian citizen should be shackled into slavery! (Well, as few as possible, anyway )

Poprushing using the workers?

I like this - not necessary now, but let us keep the workers close enough that they may be used at a moment's notice.

That clear it up?