View Poll Results: Which conservative assertion is most idiotic?
To be offended by racist, or sexist remarks means you're a PC extremist. 3 5.66%
Workers have never been exploited intentionally by business executives. 16 30.19%
The United States is a Christian nation -- all other religions are fake. 20 37.74%
When impoverished people have no boot straps to pull themselves up with, they can pull themselves up by ropes of sand. 6 11.32%
Bannana is a secret weapon of neo-communists. 8 15.09%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
Old August 31, 2002, 11:47   #91
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
Quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Fez, the only "good" thing (and I use that term loosely) that came from de-regulation of the energy market was that Enron type companies made money. And they made that money at the expense of consumers. So I ask you... is it better that consumers have more money, or energy trading corporations?
What was lacking during the Clinton adminstration was law enforcement of these different sectors. Reagan did the right thing but this later broke down because of the lack of law enforcement.


Quote:
This is more of an indirect way of re-distributing wealth down to the lower classes. But keep in mind, that most of this wealth would be put back into the economy in the form of luxury goods.
Sure you have well intended ideas even some that I agree with (why the hell are CEO's paid so much?) but we will never agree on the general picture. I am more for a deregulated economy where the government only does law enforcement. Law enforcement is necessary to prevent crooked dirty corporations from existing... so clean or close to clean corporations can do what they do best... bring us products.

Quote:
Sure, my model is little more than scratchings on a napkin. But the basic concepts are sound and could be implemented rather easily. What, in particular, do you disagree with here Fez?
I don't really disagree with much of what you propose. However the financial model I propose for countries other than the US having problems like Argentina is the Chilean Model. A solid economic model that has given Chile a high standard of living, a highly liquid banking system and one of the most strongest soverign bond ratings in the world.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 12:09   #92
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
I believe we agree on more than we would both like to admit. I am for more de-regulation in certain areas. Government interference does hamper things. But you must remember that the economy IS the government (basically). All banks borrow money from the government which is why Alan Greenspan is the God of Commerce. I would agree with almost total de-regulation in luxury and consumer goods if corporations can behave themselves and if the gov't just does law enforcement.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 12:11   #93
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
We can argue Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush problems later ... BTW I think Clinton was just as bad a president as Reagan. Clinton might have been a self-proclaimed liberal, but he certainly did a lot for corporate America to be called the "Best Republican President" (courtesy of Michael Moore).
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 12:17   #94
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
We always fight with each other when it comes to politics so I guess we don't want to admit that we agree on more things then we think.

BTW is that you in the avatar? Man you are cute...

Quote:
Originally posted by Sava
We can argue Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush problems later ... BTW I think Clinton was just as bad a president as Reagan. Clinton might have been a self-proclaimed liberal, but he certainly did a lot for corporate America to be called the "Best Republican President" (courtesy of Michael Moore).
Clinton didn't actually do anything when he was in power so that is where corporations actually cashed in on. He didn't do anything to help law enforcement... his own adminstration reeked with scandals.

Reagan might of had a couple of scandals but at least he was honest about them... in my opinion... that is why I like Reagan as a president.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 12:24   #95
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
Quote:
Originally posted by Fez
We always fight with each other when it comes to politics so I guess we don't want to admit that we agree on more things then we think.

BTW is that you in the avatar? Man you are cute...
yeah that's me, thx...

I think that because we tend to associate ourselves with generalized stereotypes (right, left, liberal, conservative), our own predespositions and closed minded preconceptions of each others' political views and motives tend to cloud reality when it comes down to what we really believe.

Plus, a relationship between us could work out, you're an atheist

All right, I've got to cruise the net for some naked Kylie Minogue pics before I start wearing fish-net T shirts and leather pants.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 12:29   #96
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
Quote:
Originally posted by Sava


yeah that's me, thx...


Quote:
I think that because we tend to associate ourselves with generalized stereotypes (right, left, liberal, conservative), our own predespositions and closed minded preconceptions of each others' political views and motives tend to cloud reality when it comes down to what we really believe.
That is true... I generally associate myself with a neo-classicist free market movement that officially started in the 80s with the election of Ronald Reagan.

Quote:
Plus, a relationship between us could work out, you're an atheist
Haha... I think I am a bit too young for you... But you are straight and probably wouldn't want to hop into bed with me.

Quote:
All right, I've got to cruise the net for some naked Kylie Minogue pics before I start wearing fish-net T shirts and leather pants.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 12:34   #97
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
Bah, I'm flexible it depends on how much money you've got. I'm such a wh0re.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 15:49   #98
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
Quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Bah, I'm flexible it depends on how much money you've got. I'm such a wh0re.
I am a sexually deprived teenager... So you will be in for some fun...

Damn it Giancarlo, stop flirting with the supposeably straight posters here...
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 21:33   #99
MrFun
Emperor
 
MrFun's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,595
Cyber, that was a good comic -- because to some extent, it is true.


Quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
Actually the whole idea of labeling people one thing or another is misleading. When I rail against liberals I must say that I really do not know any who fit the sterotype (except for some who post here). A true liberal should be thought of as a kind hearted person who wants to share the world's resources with the less fortunate.

On the other hand a true conservative is one who wants to conserve things that have been proven to work to accomplish justice and opportunity for everyone. It should be remembered that it was conservatives who have fed and clothed the poor for centuries. They did and still do have compassion for less fortunate people just like the true liberal does. The difference really is the methods used to accomplish the same end. One side would compell the other would do it freely.

Of course now everything is twisted. The conservatives are viewed as greedy businessmen and the liberals are viewed as elitist know-it-alls who think they have the wisdom to rule the world and distribute other peoples resources. I belong to neither group and most of my liberal friends do not either. Too bad that jerks have taken these labels so that real compassionate conservatives and liberals are at each other's throats.
The most intelligent statement in this thread.
But really, I did not expect this troll thread of mine to live this long.
__________________
STFU and then GTFO!
MrFun is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 23:48   #100
Ethelred
King
 
Ethelred's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:07
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Anaheim, California
Posts: 1,083
Quote:
Originally posted by Fez


Infact I have some liberal elements in my social beliefs... if I didn't meet some of you people here I would still hold my old beliefs. I am now tolerant towards gays and am no longer a McCarthyist.
Oh good those two thoughts went so well together.

McCarthy was sleaziest looking politician I have ever seen. And sitting at the elbow of Senator Sleaze at the Army-McCarthy hearings was a smaller younger sleaze ball. Smarter too. Roy Cohn, gay basher extraordinaire who took Senate Pages to bed. Male Senate pages only. After selling out everyone he could he then went on to sleaze his way to wealth by defending Mafia members.

The only thing sleazier looking than McCarthy and Roy Cohn at work was McCarthy's speach after he was raked over the coals by Eisenhower. Slime, sleaze and nervous sweat all at once. Its a wonder the creature was ever elected. I figure he must have been able to look more honest in person than he did on TV.
Ethelred is offline  
Old August 31, 2002, 23:53   #101
leftover_crack
Settler
 
Local Time: 07:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 20
Most Idiotic assertion of Liberals

1) Everyone is who is not a white heterosexual male is "oppressed" somehow (im a white heterosexual. I feel oppressed by Liberal PC garbage)

On the other side
1) Everyone who doesnt have a job is a lazy bum who doesnt deserve to eat or there is somthing wrong with him. (Im not lazy I work hard as hell. I dont have a job cause nobody wants to hire me. I try, try, and try...more of the same"Well get back to you")
leftover_crack is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 03:49   #102
Urban Ranger
NationStatesApolyton Storywriters' GuildNever Ending Stories
Deity
 
Urban Ranger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
Quote:
Originally posted by Asher
The most idiotic assertion of conservatives is that the market should be left alone.
Anyone with a frickin clue can tell that letting the government have tons of control over the economy is an ultimate good thing. This way everyone can get paid $100000 per hour, and goods can have a price ceiling on them at $0.01 each (even cars!). When will the idiot righties learn that we're all better off making $10B per year each with goods restricted at $0.01 each?
Glonk, have you read any of Dicken's books? Victoria England is Laissez Faire Capitalism at its best. Guess what? It's horrible to 95% of the population.

I am in one of the most - if not the most - Laissez Faire region in the world. It doesn't look pretty up and close. We have people living in "cage homes" - these are literally cages around small beds. We have people picking up cardboards and soda cans to eke out a miserable existence. Of course, we are better those kids in Manila, who spend all their time scrounging in trash heaps looking for stuff to sell for a few US cents.

Of course you don't think social redistribution is good. Your parents have money and you never need to worry about from where you get your next meal.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
Urban Ranger is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 12:02   #103
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
UR ...

What do you think of my proposals on education and health care?
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 12:11   #104
Urban Ranger
NationStatesApolyton Storywriters' GuildNever Ending Stories
Deity
 
Urban Ranger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
Sorry, I missed them. Are they in this thread? Maybe you could kindly quote them?
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
Urban Ranger is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 12:48   #105
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
Sure...

Quote:
All I want is free, or extremely low cost health-care and education. I also think that profiteering shouldn't run rampant in the energy industry. Don't think that I want extremely high progressive taxes, or the state taking property. I don't. I just look at the current situation in the US, and I think that corporate America is profiting off of some industries where profits should take a backseat to safety, health, and the general welfare of people.

The number thing that I would be for, is the creation of non-profit drug companies that would provide medical supplies and low cost drugs to people and hospitals. Drug companies are taking money left and right from the sick and needy.

The second thing that I would like to see done is more government intervention in the energy industry. If Reagan hadn't de-regulated things, Enron would have never even existed, let alone committed such a heinous act of greed. Enron's only function was buying energy from power plants, raising the price, and then selling it to consumers. They didn't produce one watt, one BTU of energy. They didn't improve its efficiency, or make it cleaner and less polluting. They simply raised the price to make money.

I think that certain industries could be almost laissez faire. Luxury goods, etc. Basically, things that people don't need to survive.

Education is another area where corporations should not be allowed to profit.

EDIT: Government as we know it is just a swollen bureaucracy. I sure as hell don't want some bureaucrat in charge of things. The problem in this country is that we elect politicians, bureaucrats, and greedy CEO's when we need leaders.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:14   #106
Lonestar
inmate
King
 
Lonestar's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The 3rd best place to live in the USA.
Posts: 2,744
Banana's a secret weapon of the Neo-Communists?

Nonsense. Everyone knows it's strawberries.
__________________
With such viral bias, you're opinion is thus rendered useless. -Shrapnel12, on my "bias" against the SS.
And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy!"
"Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I ****ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective." --Barack Obama
Lonestar is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:19   #107
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
I always favored grapes myself :P
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:28   #108
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Of course you don't think social redistribution is good. Your parents have money and you never need to worry about from where you get your next meal.
Social redistribution is awful. Asher probably has a well off life as I do. But that is no excuse to paint anybody who disagrees with illogical social redistribution as ignorant.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:30   #109
David Floyd
Emperor
 
Local Time: 07:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
Of course you don't think social redistribution is good. Your parents have money and you never need to worry about from where you get your next meal.
And, in reverse, of course poor people favor social redistribution. They see all the money more well off people have, and they get jealous and greedy. They decide there should be a legalized method of theft in place. And then they institute such a method.

And that's why I don't like democracy.
__________________
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/
David Floyd is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:42   #110
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
Holy crap, I agree with david floyd... oh my... this is impossible... *runs off shocked*

Yeah sure poor people agree with social redistribution and to back up David Floyd's point look at Chile in the 70s. They got somebody to redistribute land for them, and I acknowledge unemployment fell under the Allende term. But that theft came at a cost and inflation skyrocketed because businesses were all nationalized. Then this major error resulted in one of the most strict and oppressive but economically pragmatic regimes to take power in 1973.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:43   #111
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
But David, on the flipside, look at how the wealthy make much of their money. I'm not for complete wealth distribution. I simply think that in certain areas like health care, energy, education, and general welfare (job assistance, etc) shouldn't be an area of the economy in which people should be allowed to profit.

Look, Bill Gates, for instance, made his wealth selling an operating system for computers. Do I think some of his business practices have hampered competition? Yes. Should the company be broken up? No. Should he be taxed any higher than he is now? No.

If some guy makes a billion dollars selling some consumer good. He deserves every penny that he makes (past taxes of course). And don't argue against the principle of taxing, especially because it's in the Bible (which you say you cherish as your ultimate source of law and morality). But putting aside Enron's accounting practices, the company itself was based on an unethical principle: energy trading... Energy trading is wrong. Inflating the price of energy for profits is wrong. Why? Because people rely on energy to live. This is the basis for my opinions on education, health care, and energy.

Any time that a sector or industry reaches a point when demand becomes ultimate, I think that capitalism should take a backseat to the need of the people. Not entirely in some instances, like the automobile industry or telecom industry, but definitely in the case of health care, education, and energy.

I see no problem with a laissez faire system of capitalism in consumer goods. Why? Because people don't need designer clothes, huge TV's, video games, computers, jewelery, etc. Supply and demand should dictate prices and the flow of those goods.

But I find it inherently wrong and evil that companies will charge outrageous prices and increase profit margins to obscene levels when, in many cases, people's lives depend on those products.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:46   #112
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
I think I forgot to mention this. I am against random wealth redistribution and land redistribution. But I also am against the practices of real estate in the US. With a 20 year mortgage, you often pay a total of ten times the value of your land. Interest rates should be much, much lower.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:51   #113
Giancarlo
King
 
Giancarlo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
I think the system is fine the way it is... Sava... there is no need to tinker with something that ain't broke.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
Giancarlo is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:52   #114
David Floyd
Emperor
 
Local Time: 07:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
But David, on the flipside, look at how the wealthy make much of their money. I'm not for complete wealth distribution. I simply think that in certain areas like health care, energy, education, and general welfare (job assistance, etc) shouldn't be an area of the economy in which people should be allowed to profit.
Doctors go to school for years, and on average are smarter than the average person. Why shouldn't they make more money than the rest of us? Or another example, energy companies - they provide a service everyone needs, and they compete with each other in terms of price. Why should they be penalized?

I see no reason to penalize someone just because they make more money than I do. It's immoral.

Quote:
And don't argue against the principle of taxing, especially because it's in the Bible (which you say you cherish as your ultimate source of law and morality).
Actually I believe in keeping religion and government totally separate. What I believe about God has no effect on what I believe is right and wrong in making laws.

Quote:
Energy trading is wrong. Inflating the price of energy for profits is wrong. Why? Because people rely on energy to live.
So? And in any case, people can live without energy - go back 150 years, before electricity. People didn't die as soon as they were born because of a lack of electric lights. They used candles or sunlight or fire. But, new technology came along, as did people who were able to utilize it to provide a service, provide convenience. I see no reason these people don't deserve every penny they make.

Quote:
Any time that a sector or industry reaches a point when demand becomes ultimate, I think that capitalism should take a backseat to the need of the people.
What exactly do you mean when you say the "need of the people"?
What you are saying is, basically, that one group should be forced to give up their property - robbing them, essentially - in order to make things more convenient for another (larger) group.

Quote:
But I find it inherently wrong and evil that companies will charge outrageous prices and increase profit margins to obscene levels when, in many cases, people's lives depend on those products.
Could you operate an EKG machine? Could you perform open heart surgery? No? I didn't think so. Obviously it takes a special level of skill to do things like this, and people had to go to school for years in order to achieve this level of proficiency. They deserve every penny they make.
__________________
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/
David Floyd is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 14:53   #115
David Floyd
Emperor
 
Local Time: 07:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
But I also am against the practices of real estate in the US. With a 20 year mortgage, you often pay a total of ten times the value of your land. Interest rates should be much, much lower.
The simple solution there is to not borrow money - pay cash for everything.
You may find that inconvenient, but banks also find it inconvenient when people default on loans. They can't just hand out free money and say "pay me back when you get a chance".
__________________
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/
David Floyd is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 15:05   #116
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
#1 I'm not talking about doctors and nurses making money. I'm talking about the drug companies and medical suppliers that routinely have 2,000% profit margins on drugs and medical equipment that is essential to peoples' lives. I think that making money needs to take a backseat to saving lives. But then again, we all know how much you seem to value human life in regard to gun control

#2 I have no problem with people borrowing money. I have a problem with the way interest is calculated. I think that there should be a flat interest rate that is applied to the total amount of money paid to cover a mortgage.

For instance, paying ten times the amount of the value of your house seems wrong to me... doesn't it seem wrong to you?

I've got no problem with credit card interest. If you spend beyond your means, you deserve being in debt.

Fez, think outside the box. If homeowners can pay off a home loan in five years without yearly compounded interest, then they have more money to buy consumer goods. This = BIGGER ECONOMY, higher productivity, and a more efficient economy. IMO, any wealth that sits in the pockets of the CEO's of investment banking companies is money that could be in the economy, working for the people.

Don't worry guys, once you take some economics courses and actually learn about the flow of money, or become actual homeowners yourselves, you'll understand my points better.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 15:09   #117
David Floyd
Emperor
 
Local Time: 07:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
I'm talking about the drug companies and medical suppliers that routinely have 2,000% profit margins on drugs and medical equipment that is essential to peoples' lives.
Again, what's wrong with this? Nothing in life is free, and some things cost more than others. Business is about making money, and prescription drugs, for example, are something that people have to buy. I guess you're option is to make your own, or not buy them, but I see nothing inherently wrong with a 2000% profit margin, or even a 20000% one.

Quote:
For instance, paying ten times the amount of the value of your house seems wrong to me... doesn't it seem wrong to you?
No. Again, if you don't want to face these interest rates, don't borrow money.
One thing you have to realize, too, is that banking is a business. Banks are in business not only to save YOUR money, but to make money of their own. This is primarily done through loans. There is nothing wrong with making money, but if you personally don't like the way loans work, then live in an apartment until you can save enough money to pay cash.
__________________
Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/
David Floyd is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 15:18   #118
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
David, David, David... I can understand your lack of knowledge on these subjects because you are a college student with little experience in the world.

Millions of seniors are on a fixed income because they cannot work. When they did work, they weren't paid enough to save for retirement. Now, they have a choice... pay for drugs, or die... hmmmm great choices huh? With a fixed income, many seniors have little money to spend once they get past living expenses. For many middle-class seniors, they have to go into debt just to pay for drugs to live.

Let me get this straight. You see absolutely no problem with a business man inflating prices just to increase profit margins in these situations?

Capitalism survives because it's basic premise is sound. The trade of goods based on supply and demand. But when demand is fixed at such a high rate, the market should naturally reflect that in a drop in prices. The problem is, companies get together and parallel their prices. Drug companies agree not to lower their prices to a certain degree so everyone can make money. This is no different than a monopoly. Except instead of one company cornerning the market and exploiting consumers, you have three or four little companies doing it. I'm trying desperately to explain this to you, but you don't seem to be understanding this. The general business-man mentality of supply and demand and competition is sound. And I get the feeling that you believe in these ideals. Which is good. But what isn't good is that you don't see what is going on... or... you do see what is going on, but you agree with the selfish pigs perpetrating this fleecing of wealth. It's no different than stealing. And you can bet there is a special place in hell for these bastards.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 15:20   #119
Sava
PolyCast Team
Emperor
 
Sava's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
Banking isn't a business, it's a way of life. The government used to sell land to people. Then rich banks came along, borrowed money from the government, and bought land with that money. When basically all the land was bought, they cornered the market, and now hold America hostages with their interest rates. You can either choose to be homeless. Or pay these rates.
__________________
(\__/) "Sava is teh man" -Ecthy
(='.'=)
(")_(") bring me everyone
Sava is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 15:21   #120
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577


The banks don't own even close to all of the land in the US...
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:07.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team