Command Nexus

[DeathByTheSword]

This is the Command Nexus. every strategic and tatical mind join and discuss military tactics. Please just post your name here if you want to join. as soon as we have something to discuss we can start a special thread for that...

members
DeathByTheSword - Command Nexus warden/commissioner
GeneralTacticus - DFA
FlameFlash -
Vlad Antlerkov -
The Bloody Baro -
History Guy -
Diablero -
Archaic -
Mellian -
Hercules -

[Anodyne]

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
as soon as we have something to discuss...

You said it...

[DeathByTheSword]

yes

we`il just have to wait for some wars to begin or something like that

[Maniac]

Question: A faction declared war on us. We are currently running Wealth Values. Power and Knowledge isn't yet unavailable. What should we do? Stay wealth or switch to Survival values but loose the big wealth benefits?

[Anodyne]

If I was playing a game myself, I'd probably switch. Morale penalties make wars quite difficult... of course, you could try to compensate the loss with other SE-choices.

[DeathByTheSword]

depends on what kind of war it is. but i think if we have enough money and a strong enough army screw survival and stay with wealth. I am not a strong supported of constantely changing SE so i would anyway say stay with wealth. i think we can beat any enemy even with low morale

[Anodyne]

It all depends on the situation, yes. When I'm playing just for the heck of it, I usually try a mix of different SE-combinations.

Of course, if Maniac referred to this Demo-game (like he probably did ), matters are a bit different.

[DeathByTheSword]

i says lets wait until that time is there and THEN start a poll about it this is only for signups and threadlinks

[Anodyne]

...of course we could continue this small talk as a lame attempt to keep the CN alive until the beginning of the game

[DeathByTheSword]

yes ofcourse but i think there to much variables. what do you all think of seawarfare in SMAC? how do you all use you ships and if we are talking about it what do you al thing of airplanes?

[Kassiopeia]

CN - Contender for the "The Thread We Hope Will Never Have To Be Used" Award.

[GeneralTacticus]

I'll sign up too.

Question: A faction declared war on us. We are currently running Wealth Values. Power and Knowledge isn't yet unavailable. What should we do? Stay wealth or switch to Survival values but loose the big wealth benefits?

I'd switch, unless it was absolutely vital that we carry on with Wealth. -2 Morale is a killer - even if we have both a CC and BEC in a base, the units we produce will still only be Disciplined. Without it, they would be Commando.

[FlameFlash]

SIGNING UP...

[Vlad Antlerkov]

signing up.

On to the question:

Switch. We can get industry benefits elsewhere *cough*Planned*cough*, and that morale penalty hurts like hell (unless they're also hurting in that area).

[The Bloody Baro]

TBB: signing up: primitive human defense thread

[DeathByTheSword]

bumping here

[History Guy]

Well, I know that war is abhorrent to the good Peacekeeper, but I was always an unusual little talent, even when I was a child and played with...horror of horrors!...plastic toy soldiers. Now, I know that I joined the United Nations for intellectual pursuits and the like (perhaps even the position of head librarian somewhere!), but the martial wing of the Peacekeepers has always, for some reason, interested me...So, without further ado, I'd like to join the Command Nexus, if that is OK...

...Then we'll see the Peacekeepers unite the factions through inter-factionary war!! Ahahahaha! Oh...sorry about that...

[DeathByTheSword]

welcome we havent got much to discuss right know but welcome no the less

[Diablero]

Count me in. I love running simulations of possible battle tactics and discussing them and all the variables.

[Archaic]

I'm in as well.

Am I the only one here who thinks we should stay in Wealth in that scenario? If we've had war declared on us, we're being attacked, not attacking them. The CC bonus to defence in Wealth outweighs the morale bonuses we'd have otherwise. Switching out of Wealth won't improve the Morale of troops already created remember. May as well stay in Wealth and pick up the Industry and Economy Benifits to help in the production of more facilities and units for our defence, not to mention helping to finance the Covert Ops we should be using anyway. Remember, we're the Peacekeepers, so we should try and do everything, even war, as peacefully as possible.

[GeneralTacticus]

Am I the only one here who thinks we should stay in Wealth in that scenario? If we've had war declared on us, we're being attacked, not attacking them. The CC bonus to defence in Wealth outweighs the morale bonuses we'd have otherwise. Switching out of Wealth won't improve the Morale of troops already created remember.

I've always thought that changes in Morale affected troops already built as well. Can someone clarify?

May as well stay in Wealth and pick up the Industry and Economy Benifits to help in the production of more facilities and units for our defence, not to mention helping to finance the Covert Ops we should be using anyway.

Unless we maintain a substantial standing army, we will need to train more, and Wealth will be an impediment to that - after all, which will be more effective, ten Very Green troops or 9 disciplined?

Remember, we're the Peacekeepers, so we should try and do everything, even war, as peacefully as possible.

If we are attacked, then the utility of restraint goes right out the window. Anyone who would attack us is an enemy we must defeat as totally as possible.

[Archaic]

Negative changes in morale will impact on troops already built. Positive changes won't. You could switch from Wealth to Power, but all those Very Green garrisons would still be Very Green.

Which will be more effective? Rushing Perimiter Defences and emergency garrisons, or slowly building slightly higher morale troops who don't gain the defensive bonus of the CC's because we're not in wealth?

If we're attacked, then let's go with covert ops and buy troops from the {Insert Faction Name Here} military surplus store. Why build ourselves when we've got all these lovely credits and all these lovely troops waiting at our doorstep just waiting for Mr. Bribe to brush Mr. Palm?
Even better, we can go Fundy for a time to help those Probes (Which can nick tech from the neighbours if necessary to keep up the tech. rate.....though considering the fact we'd probably have better research than the AI even in Fundy why bother.) *AND* get morale.

[GeneralTacticus]

Which will be more effective? Rushing Perimiter Defences and emergency garrisons, or slowly building slightly higher morale troops who don't gain the defensive bonus of the CC's because we're not in wealth?

And who says we won't be able to do that without Wealth? The Morale disparity between Wealth and non-wealth troops increases even further if we have Morale-boosting SPs.

If we're attacked, then let's go with covert ops and buy troops from the {Insert Faction Name Here} military surplus store. Why build ourselves when we've got all these lovely credits and all these lovely troops waiting at our doorstep just waiting for Mr. Bribe to brush Mr. Palm?

Very effective... however this won't help us much if we end up facing Miriam in Fundy, or if we run out of energy credits (the latter is, admittedly, not very likely if we run Wealth + GA).

Even better, we can go Fundy for a time to help those Probes (Which can nick tech from the neighbours if necessary to keep up the tech. rate.....though considering the fact we'd probably have better research than the AI even in Fundy why bother.) *AND* get morale.

RP considerations mean that I will never, EVER support such a policy under any circumstances.

[DeathByTheSword]

NOT fundy and i think we need a strong army all the time. so that when we come to war we dont have to worry about morale on newly build units. Covert ops i see more in an attacking cities role than bribing units role. but ofcourse the latter must be used

[Diablero]

Agreed... having some military muscle is essential. It doesn't have to be much in quantity either, so long as we're ahead with weapons technology.

If the people turn to spiritual values, it cannot be for long, because, inevitably, those values will come to stagnate our economy and scientific progress -unless the rest of our economy and values are designed to compensate for the loss.

[DeathByTheSword]

I agree that not always quantity wins and that tech is very important. but may i state that IF we have big country. i would prefer several strike forces near the borders (even if they are less advanced). instead of one very advanced force some where in the middle. this would seriously undermine our mobility and attack abilities. i believe strongly in the rapid deploment dotrine, for this we need a amry that is split up in several independent forces that all have there own targets to achieve. this way we can coordinate a large number of troops easily. So i believe in a large army and keeping that army up-to-date. but i would like to see we have detailed plans ready for the time that we are attack

[Archaic]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
And who says we won't be able to do that without Wealth? The Morale disparity between Wealth and non-wealth troops increases even further if we have Morale-boosting SPs.

The disparity doesn't widen whatsoever. There's still the same difference in morale levels, it's just that it's at *different* morale levels.

Very effective... however this won't help us much if we end up facing Miriam in Fundy, or if we run out of energy credits (the latter is, admittedly, not very likely if we run Wealth + GA).

If we end up facing Miriam in Fundy, let's use the troops we've already bought off everyone else, or probe someone else and implicate her.
And we're not likely to run out of credits in FM/Wealth either.

RP considerations mean that I will never, EVER support such a policy under any circumstances.

Please read my earlier SE speach to see how I explained this switch to Fundy. As you can see, it's not religious fundamentalism I propose here.

Originally posted by Diablero
If the people turn to spiritual values, it cannot be for long, because, inevitably, those values will come to stagnate our economy and scientific progress -unless the rest of our economy and values are designed to compensate for the loss.

Complete agreement.

[DeathByTheSword]

archaic are you saying that we are going to use the frame option? i myself use it in SP but under these circumstances and because of a great roleplay aspect i am against it! it would create a big political scandal for the directors in charge if it all goes wrong. (and i am not talking about political parties)

[Archaic]

Yes, I'd like to see us use the frame option. Of course, I'd want to only do it where we had a reasonable chance of success (ie. Fundied up, highest morale probe team available.), or when we're probing an opponent who's already at war with us anyway.

[GeneralTacticus]

The disparity doesn't widen whatsoever. There's still the same difference in morale levels, it's just that it's at *different* morale levels.

Re-read the effects. The -2 Morale penalty not only reduces Morale by two levels, it also halves any positive effects, e.g. Command Centers.