4th Apolyton CtP2 SP Tournament: 3 September - 3 November 2002 - Page 4

Dread_Doomfist · September 12, 2002, 05:25

and it seems another bug...if i bombard with my artillery a enemy city, after the shoot-animation the artillery will be destroyed...so i can't use this units effective.......

mapfi · September 12, 2002, 08:03

I think that happens when you're being counterbombarded... (not sure though)

Martin Gühmann · September 12, 2002, 09:26

Quote:

Originally posted by ETB
The Persians got me so mad that I did Bloodbath on a few of their cities. I checked my regard and all the AIs said �Bloodbath� toward me. That�s been there for over 100 turns now, so I guess that it�s not something that they easily forget!

Interesting how the ChangeGlobalRegard function does work, the reason argument is obviously for the DiploManager. Actual the duration of the effect should only be 50 turns. So it seems bloodbath is a really evil crime.

-Martin

mnbryan37 · September 12, 2002, 09:28

Shadow,

Thanks. My happiness level in all cities was OK. The only message I got was that due to the change in government, some of my armies were disbanded.

I lost enough troops that I probably will lose a number of my cities.

Bill

mnbryan37 · September 12, 2002, 09:33

DD,

That will also happen if your units end up on a mountain tile after they distroy a city that was located there.

Dread_Doomfist · September 12, 2002, 11:55

counterbombarded? ...my artillery dies after they shoot...not in the turn of the AI...and if you're right..thats not fair...then the AI can shoot 2 times..in one turn...

Martin Gühmann · September 12, 2002, 12:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Dread_Doomfist
counterbombarded? ...my artillery dies after they shoot...not in the turn of the AI...and if you're right..thats not fair...then the AI can shoot 2 times..in one turn...

Yeah counterbombarding that happens immediately, and this isn't actual unfair it is just more dangerous, or what do you think if an AI bombard your city, the AI have then the same problem as you.

-Martin

hexagonian · September 12, 2002, 12:09

Actually not, because if they fire on you during their turn, they also take damage.

The thing to remember is units in a city may have an advantage due to walls/city walls so they may not be destroyed - and it is possible that the AI may be at the next level of bombarding units too, so their bombarding units could be stronger.

It may mean you have to bring in a larger amount of bombarding units and bombard for several turns. The heal rate in cities is low, so eventually you should wear them down.

Dread_Doomfist · September 12, 2002, 14:57

hmm..ok..then it's right..no artillery or ships had bombard my citys..so i an't know this...

and why can the AI capture a city with a full stack of army and turn out of the city with all units out of the city in the same turn???

hexagonian · September 12, 2002, 15:19

I have seen this in my games from time to time too - this is a bug, but I do not know how it can be fixed.

ETB · September 12, 2002, 16:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Dread_Doomfist
hmm..ok..then it's right..no artillery or ships had bombard my citys..so i an't know this...

Yes, counter bombardment adds a whole new level of complexity tthat I really like. Without it, you can often bombard the AI easily into confusion and wipe them out without taking any damage. Counter bombardment is much more realistic!

Quote:

Originally posted by Dread_Doomfist
and why can the AI capture a city with a full stack of army and turn out of the city with all units out of the city in the same turn???

I’ve seen this throughout all the CtP2 games that I have played. I figured it was one of the minor advantages that the AI has over human players.

ETB · September 12, 2002, 16:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Dread_Doomfist
LOCUTUS:
aehm..a little question ...i read in the game details for this tournament that the pollution is ON..but..i have factorys and oil rafinerys and ZERO pollution...no civ have pollution....is it a writinig failure or is it a bug in the game???

I caught this early on and have been taking full advantage of it! I think my biggest city is size 80 with a couple more close behind. They are the core of my ever growing empire!

I have a question though. My Nebekennezer unit still captures slaves after the Emancipation Act is complete. Now I have slaves in my cities again! BTW – the Grant unit is really great!!! I’m accumulating Infantrymen like crazy – and I really need them now!

Locutus · September 12, 2002, 17:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Dread_Doomfist
LOCUTUS:
aehm..a little question ...i read in the game details for this tournament that the pollution is ON..but..i have factorys and oil rafinerys and ZERO pollution...no civ have pollution....is it a writinig failure or is it a bug in the game???

Damn, something must have gone wrong during all that messing with the scenario editor

Oh well, nothing can be done about it now, take advantage of it while you can

It's not like this game isn't hard enough anyway

Quote:

Originally posted by mnbryan37
Houston, I have a problem. I'm at 35AD and when I try to go to my next turn, my government changes from Republic to Anarchy, and I lose a bunch of my troops. None of my towns are in revolt. Is this a feature of the program, or a bug?

Were they by any chance government specific units? Pezhetoroi in this case?

DD,
If you haven't already, you can improve the efficiency of your bombardment by stacking all your bombard-capable units and bombarding with all of the at the same time. Then you will do more damage to the AI units, so you might destroy more of them before they can counterbombard. Also, in that case they can only counter bombard once whereas when you bombard them 12 times with a single unit, they can counterbombard you 12 times. Finally, I think that if they counterbombard a whole stack, the damage caused often spreads out over several units, which means less of your units actually get destroyed.

Yes, ETB, the slaving thing is a bug. It could be fixed with SLIC by replacing all enslaving units by a non-enslaving version, but noone has written code for that yet.

mnbryan37 · September 12, 2002, 21:10

Locutus,

Yes, it was just the Pezhetero units that were disbanded, so it wasn't as big a loss at I thought. I continued 2 more turns and was able to restore the Republic Govt.

Bill

Dread_Doomfist · September 12, 2002, 22:35

lala..counterbombard is no more a problem..it's 2080 AD and i have all advances...whats the final endyear in this game? anyway..i take my ecorangers and now i kick the damn AI out of space...that they can't stressed me (uhm..not really ;-)) any longer...yeeha..my time has come...and my revenge will be dreadful...like the intention of my name...

Shadow · September 13, 2002, 01:23

Haven't played for a bit... still struggling at around 200AD...

Jesper Portus · September 13, 2002, 04:17

Damn!

I lost the "dance"!

My three enemies kicked me out of the game.
It´s no good to kill one nation and have three war with the rest. After a while they are really strong!

So I restart (my first in all the tournaments - tribut to craddle!) and this time I will not so peacefull!

What I mean?
At the start I marsh to the greek and conquer them - as my first game.
But I also marsh to south and battle the green - and I won!
After that with 6 cities I built only armies and fightb again the brown - and I won again!

Thanks hexagonian for your advice: Battle the AI before they became strong.

Now I´am at 12 cities, City State Government and at war with persian and egyptian. (Reason: Bloodbath). With my power I hope to stand this fight, but I´am in the defence. In 2.000 BC the AI-nations are military to strong for my warriors and spearmen.

I havo only one problem with this mod: By entering a hut I will must sometimes wait up to 5 minutes until the game continues. Only when I found soldiers or tech - so it´s a pleasure to wait.

I have a lot of fun with this game!
Hope you to!

So long
Jesper Portus

Jesper Portus · September 13, 2002, 04:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesper Portus
Damn!

I lost the "dance"!

My three enemies kicked me out of the game.
It´s no good to kill one nation and have three war with the rest. After a while they are really strong!

What they did?
I lose 7 of my 8 cities. Only a small outpost is left.
I have one big stack with warriors and spearmen - but they are destroyed by the attack on rome ...

The end of a great nation -

But the rise of a greater roman empirre!

Yeah!
I will kick the AI!

Jesper Portus

Maquiladora · September 13, 2002, 04:54

Sad to hear

I take it your scores wont be official if you restart the game. I had some really close moments too, just never give up! The AI always has at least some of its cities really badly defended, its just attacking the right ones. Once you start taking its cities, theyll disband all those stacks near your cities because they cant support them, attack is the best form of defence. Barbarian cities are always nice to see too, means you dont have to go at war with a friend to take it.

Jesper Portus · September 13, 2002, 06:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Maquiladora
1) Sad to hear

I take it your scores wont be official if you restart the game.
2) I had some really close moments too, just never give up!
3) Attack is the best form of defence.

1) I hope not! It´s LOCUTUS decision.
2) I never give up to, but with one city an 12 old units - no chance. It was an simultan attack bei the green, brown and purple. I´ve mad the mistage to built no armies after the victory over the orange. Only built city improvements and wonders. This is my normal tactic, but in this mod it´s no good.

3) I learned it: In this Mod: Yes!!!

Jesper Portus

Maquiladora · September 13, 2002, 06:54

Try and move those 12 units deep into an enemies borders, and choose a city that you think is weakly guarded. Preferably a big city. You never know! I got 5 Etruscan cities like that.

Same as me with the city improvements, i managed to get the Ziggurat in about 5 of my biggest cities after taking out the Etruscans (green), then the Greeks(orange) started knocking at my door again straight after. I also got the Temple of Solomon but it was obsolete about 15 turns after building it

Dread_Doomfist · September 13, 2002, 14:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Sad to hear

I take it your scores wont be official if you restart the game.

what? if i restart the score wont be official? why that? i thought you can't send in more than one save-game...thats one of the primary rules...and in the tournaments is nothing to read like "don't restart the game!" if you say "don't restart"...you must say "don't load a autosave-game or a save game before your last one where you go to bed or so...but it's not possible if the game crash...and it's not possible to control..

it's ok to send in only one save-game...but don't restart?...restart can improve your tactics...learn from your mistakes..and you will be better...and you understand the game better...and it's more enjoyable...

DD

Maquiladora · September 13, 2002, 14:16

To restart youll also know where all the enemies are going to come from and prepare for their attacks at the right place. I thought you could only submit one game for the official ranking, but that was under the rule you played through the game the first time. You can submit as many games as you want, only one official. If it crashes its fine to restart, but you have an advantage over the rest if you keep restarting until you get it perfect.

centrifuge · September 13, 2002, 14:26

I personally don't agree with restarting the game from the beginning, except in the case of a computer crash or something similar, but definitelty not because the AI is kicking your butt

This is a tournament, we are comparing skills, and learning from each others games. IMHO restarting takes away from the experience, because you already know where the AI's are located and this gives an unfair advantage, taking away from the surprise, as well as much of the "strategize as you go" aspect that should be present.

Anyway, Locutus has stated during previous tournaments, that the intention is that we not restart. However, there is no way to tell if a player does restart or not, so therefore we are all simply on the honor system.

Dread_Doomfist · September 13, 2002, 15:57

hmm..an unfair advantage?...then you most stop all communications in the forums about the game, showing screenshots and many more.(it could include details of the game..and not less, if you're clever enough and understand to read between the lines).....or if the first one sending in his save-game, look at it and you know also the details..and you can play fast in the last days the game......

if i had know this..i had not writing in this forum and tell details of my game...and where are the AI is...sorry about this..but i'm not the only one...

and let me say this...it's not really an unfair advantage..after start and playing few turns..the greeks stay with a unit in front of one of your towns..they explore very quick..and at this time..you can ask for to go out of your territory..after this..you can ask for a map and the greeks will give you this map...in my opinion...ok..its an advantage to know where the AI is..but a so little one...and how many of you use the hints in this forum...and going strictly to the AI to kill they fast? how many?

i respect the system of honor....and i hate it to cheat or playing unfair...but please..update the rules and say it directly.."don't restart if the AI kicks you"...for new members...

ok..my actuall game is the third one..and in tribut of honor i will not post it for the official score...only for the unofficial one...

regards..

DD

centrifuge · September 13, 2002, 18:23

DD, I don't have any problem with you submitting your game for the official score, I know that you are certainly not the only person that as ever restarted this game. Locutus, however, has the final decision I suppose.

Anyhow, ladies and gentlemen I guess that I'll be the first to submit a saved game. As I said earlier, I went for the quick win... and it's was a pretty darn quick one, the quickest I've ever had anyway

I had fun, but reading through this thread, I feel as though I missed out on a lot. A non-stop struggle for survival, while going for a conquest victory, just seems to hold more merit than a quick diplo win, IMHO. But who knows what next time will bring.

Diplomatic win 3700 BC,
just hit the end turn button

Dread_Doomfist · September 13, 2002, 20:10

hexagonia:

and it seems another bug..maybe critical...i can't finish the game...or..it's impossible to finish the game with science-win...

if i have research gaia-controller..in the last turn before it has finished..the game hangs up....no reaction....
can't do anything....so its only possible to win the game with diplomacy or maybe endyear...and bloodlust is in this tournament off..

DD

mnbryan37 · September 13, 2002, 20:30

Centrifuge,

Congratulations!! I have never played for a diplomatic victory, but I am amazed you could finish any form of this game that early. You must be a great dipolmat.

Jesper,

In a game this difficult, I have no problem with anyone starting over if they get wiped out. Sounds like most of us came close to that. Yes, you would have information that would help you in the second try, but no 2 playings of the game are identical, so you might even end up with a more difficult battle.

I have not learned anything in this thread during a game that helped me score better. Hexzagonian's hints would be very valuable in the next game I play, but I was too far along to change my overall strategy in the current one. I think downloading someones completed game would be helpfull, but I assume most of us don't do that until after we have also submitted.

Locutus · September 14, 2002, 07:00

The restart issue is a tough one. One the one hand it's not fair to the people who play the game once that some others restart 3 times and thus gain a huge advantage (you know what the map looks like, what's in the goody huts, which AIs to avoid, which ones to attack, etc), and the same goes for this thread: those who read all the spoilers on this thread before starting to play have an advantage over those who play early on in the month and post these things in the first place. On the other hand, if people are not allowed to restart, there would in some months only be 2 or 3 savegames submitted (see Tournament 2), that can't possibly be in anyone's interest either. And the spoilers in this thread, the sharing of experiences and the discussion of tactics, are exactly what this Tournament feature is about and what makes it so fun. On top of that, if I would make 'no restarts' an official rule, a lot of people would simply cease to post on this thread to update us all about their game and would play the game possibly over and over again until it's perfect and would only use this thread to submit their final savegame. In that case we can only guess about how many restarts people may or may not have done. Right now, although restarters have an advantage, at least we have a reasonable idea of who restarted and how often (and can consider this when comparing skills).

I don't want to have official rules on this (because they can't be enforced) but the an unofficial rule of thumb would be that you don't restart unless you've actually lost the game. Once you've seen that defeat movie, you're allowed to restart. Restarting just because you lost a battle or the AI conquered one of your key cities shouldn't be reason enough for a restart, but if you've actually lost the game, it's not in anyone's interest if you would not be allowed to submit a game for that month...

centrifuge,
3700BC

Amazing... you are either EXTREMELY good or EXTREMELY lucky...

Locutus · September 14, 2002, 07:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Dread_Doomfist
and it seems another bug..maybe critical...i can't finish the game...or..it's impossible to finish the game with science-win...

if i have research gaia-controller..in the last turn before it has finished..the game hangs up....no reaction....
can't do anything....so its only possible to win the game with diplomacy or maybe endyear...and bloodlust is in this tournament off..

I've had this problem i other mods as well, with both Science and Diplomacy victory (and once even with Bloodlust). The game can be awfully stubborn when it comes to letting you win (the AI must be holding grudges

). Try disabling all extra options for that final turn: movies, trade routes, unit movement, etc. Try a lower screen resolution, close background apps, etc. If you can't get it to work, send the savegame to me and I'll see if I can manage it - sometimes the problem is PC-specific (last month I couldn't finish TheArsenal's Diplo victory while he himself and one other person had no problem with the game).