View Poll Results: Is this acceptable to run on Apolyton?
Yes 32 40.00%
No 43 53.75%
It has little to do with bananas, I dont care 5 6.25%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
Old September 9, 2002, 08:00   #241
mapfi
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 848
Markos, knowingly do something is doing something on purpose. If you're contesting that we might just as well stop any discussion. Stay serious!
mapfi is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 08:12   #242
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
mapfi,

first of all, i could not imagine someone could ever be offended from chaplin, except perhaps fascists

second, ever heard of the word "intention"? shall we seek the use of the phrase "on purpose"?

are you saying that if Bush decides to attack Iraq and "knows" that people will be killed then the "purpose" of his action is that he wants to kill people?
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 08:16   #243
mapfi
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 848
as hard and unreasonable as it may seem but I think yes.
If you decide that you're goal justifies this or that you're also doing this or that on purpose. It might not be your goal, not your purpose and you might not want it, but the fact of knowing that's it is going to happen deprives you of the argument that you didn't do it intentionally. - you're doing it ON purpose.
mapfi is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 08:21   #244
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
ok, so Bush is (about to become) a murderer, a serial killer
fine
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 08:24   #245
mapfi
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 848
Any warmonger is. Just think about it. It may be that the goal justifies it but in my opinion the fact is still there. Depends if you define murderer by the law or by the fact that somebody is the cause of somebody elses death. You can't neglect that somebody deciding to wage a war is one of the causes of the soldiers' deaths.
mapfi is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:05   #246
mapfi
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 848
But let's get back to the topic, your banner:
Quote:
It's bad because it tries to live of the movie, because I can't see any funny statement in it and because there's not even a slight connection between apolyton, buying and Hitler except maybe the fact that it is an order to do something. Anyone that has seen movies of Hitler's speeches knows that he never talked like that, so the banner just doesn't make any sense, it's simply bad.
In my opinion it's not a question of posting it or not because it will or not offend people but because there's no reason to do so. The kitten banner is black humour but it's funny when you look at it the first time. This one just isn't. As Frogger put it ixnay's has at least a punch line. Personally I don't like that one either though. There's more sophisticated humour. In the end - as NYE said it's your right to put on this site what you want as long as it's not against the law, but when you start asking others opinions I'd assume you want to base your decision on that. So don't put it on the site.
mapfi is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:15   #247
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
as i said, i have a reworked version under construction. the new banner will include the-great-dictator-ignorants filter technology

beyond that, i have also said that the banner and this poll was part of a previous discussion
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:24   #248
Boris Godunov
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Boris Godunov's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
I think the amount of discomfort with the idea expressed in the too-too-many posts about this banner should say that it is probably an idea you best avoid, at this point.
__________________
Tutto nel mondo č burla
Boris Godunov is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:27   #249
mapfi
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 848
the-great-dictator-ignorants filter technology just hope that with that you don't wake expectations to filter anything other possibly offensiv too

but, will the reworked version also have some sense in it? I mean, where do you see the funny side of your banner? You mentioned many posts earlier something that you're trying to make fun of advertising though I can't quite see that punch.
mapfi is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:30   #250
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
that stuff was not so serious (although i think it actually makes sense )
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:32   #251
mapfi
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 848
So where's the punch?

just a side note: Don't you think you violate copyright if you use the banner anyway?
mapfi is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:35   #252
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Copyright schmopyright.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:35   #253
Robert Plomp
admin
DiploGamesBtS Tri-LeaguePolyCast TeamC4WDG Team Apolyton
Administrator
 
Robert Plomp's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Delft, The Netherlands
Posts: 11,635
Markos, can you blame people to be ignorant of the movie?

And can you blame people for seeing hitler and having no clue about the fact that it's Charly Chaplin?

Bush has the choise between much people being killed, and very much people being killed.

You have the choise between no people being offended and people being offended.
__________________
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
Robert Plomp is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:40   #254
mapfi
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 848
CyberShy:
With the slight difference that Markos actually can be rather sure of the outcome, whereas Bush has to play the lottery.

Quote:
Copyright schmopyright
It's an ad for something commercial so the fact can't be as easily dismissed as if eg. you'd put it on your private homepage
mapfi is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:40   #255
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
perhaps then i should stop posting in the forums cause i might offend someone.....
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:53   #256
mapfi
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 848
can you give yourself a PCR for posts like that?

Nobody would want that of course. I'd still like to know your view on your banner though. For those who are offended by it or for those who are too dumb to get it (including me), what is the punch or what is the meaning behind it?
mapfi is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 09:59   #257
Robert Plomp
admin
DiploGamesBtS Tri-LeaguePolyCast TeamC4WDG Team Apolyton
Administrator
 
Robert Plomp's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Delft, The Netherlands
Posts: 11,635
Quote:
perhaps then i should stop posting in the forums cause i might offend someone.....
You must be mature enough to understand what will offend people and what will not offend people.

But use this banner, and be sure you'll offend people.
If that's what you want to do, do it.
I don't think there's something wrong with offending people in general.

I have offended people on purpose, I will never do it on this scale though. But if it's ok with your morals, go ahead. You won't offend me.

I'll just feel sorry about a website that's running this kind of banners. Just because the owner is either not mature enough to understand he's going to offend people with it or because he has low moral standards like that.

But I won't be offended. I've seen worse.
I won't leave 'poly, neither will I boycot your store or anything. I just feel sorry for you.

that's all. Nothing to worry about, I think.
__________________
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
Robert Plomp is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:02   #258
Jules
Warlord
 
Jules's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chairman & CEO, Dallas Oil Company
Posts: 142
MarkG,
I for one have seen the movie and thought it was hilarious. The humor was old-fashioned, but I liked it. So if you want to use the banner, go right ahead. I think it pokes fun at the authoritarian nature of advertising (is that the message you're trying to get across btw?).

And here's something just for fun:
Attached Files:
File Type: wav hynkel_speaks.wav (282.4 KB, 4 views)
__________________
"People sit in chairs!" - Bobby Baccalieri
Jules is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:04   #259
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
my view on my banner??

isnt it clear by now that i find it at least humourous?
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:07   #260
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
I think it pokes fun at the authoritarian nature of advertising (is that the message you're trying to get across btw?).
finally someone who understands me!!
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:08   #261
SpencerH
Civilization III PBEMCivilization III MultiplayerBtS Tri-League
Emperor
 
SpencerH's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Back in BAMA full time.
Posts: 4,502
The movie makes fun of the fascists, but a single frame from the movie can easily be misunderstood. Perhaps you are subconsciously supportive of "the little corporal" ?
__________________
We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.
SpencerH is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:18   #262
Robert Plomp
admin
DiploGamesBtS Tri-LeaguePolyCast TeamC4WDG Team Apolyton
Administrator
 
Robert Plomp's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Delft, The Netherlands
Posts: 11,635
Markos, we get your idea of the movie, which is hilarious, but, like SpenserH says, one single frame of it is not getting through the entire message of the movie!

And you can't blame people for being ignorant on it.
In cases like this you should expect people to be ignorant. And deal with them like they are ignorant.

That's what jokes on this kind of subjects requier!
__________________
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
Robert Plomp is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:20   #263
mapfi
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 848
Quote:
I think it pokes fun at the authoritarian nature of advertising (is that the message you're trying to get across btw?).
It doesn't speak for the joke if even the one who spots it is not even sure about it.
So Markos if that was you intention, then it's just outdated. Too many have made fun of the sometimes authoritarian nature of advertising before. There's music groups that have cd albums that are named "buy me". You already made fun of it with the kittens and and and...

Furthermore to use a picture of the Great Dictator for that makes no sense at all - there's no connection.
If you were really serious about that joke you'd have made the banner with a real picture of Hitler. I personally would have thought that to be at least a little funny and the punch line might have come through faster - but then, there would be even more offended by it. Those who'd like to forbid any humour related to the third Reich at all. I hold my opinion that nothing should be off limits for good humour.

So - I vote for a Hitler one if you got the guts to stand the criticism

Last edited by mapfi; September 9, 2002 at 10:26.
mapfi is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:24   #264
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
Quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
And you can't blame people for being ignorant on it.
where did you see me blame anyone?
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:27   #265
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
Quote:
Originally posted by mapfi
It doesn't speak for the joke if even the one who spots it is not even sure about it.
my main goal was to find out how many can actually be offended by charlie chaplin
i'm seriously surprised that there were so many...

Quote:
So Markos if that was you intention, then it's just outdated. Too many have made fun of the sometimes authoritarian nature of advertising before.
did you see me claim originality or doing anything amazingly funny?
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:31   #266
SpencerH
Civilization III PBEMCivilization III MultiplayerBtS Tri-League
Emperor
 
SpencerH's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Back in BAMA full time.
Posts: 4,502
Quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
my main goal was to find out how many can actually be offended by charlie chaplin
i'm seriously surprised that there were so many...
But without the context of the movie, its not Charlie Chaplin making fun of the austrian scumbag, its someone in Nazi regalia.
__________________
We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.
SpencerH is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:35   #267
MarkG
Apolytoners Hall of FameApolyCon 06 Participants
Apolyton CS Co-Founder
 
MarkG's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
Quote:
But without the context of the movie...
just because it's not the whole movie doesnt mean that the image is not a reference to it

are you saying that a photo of a movie in a magazine is not a reference to the movie?
__________________
Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog
MarkG is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 10:36   #268
Robert Plomp
admin
DiploGamesBtS Tri-LeaguePolyCast TeamC4WDG Team Apolyton
Administrator
 
Robert Plomp's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Delft, The Netherlands
Posts: 11,635
Quote:
Markos: where did you see my blame anyone?
read this:

Quote:
Markos: so the carrier of a message is responsible for the perception of it by ignorant(on the issue) people?
you more or less spread the idea that you mean that people who are offended:
1. can't see it's chaplin, not hitler
2. can't connect the banner with the movie
3. seem to be ignorant of the movie
4. are offended because of their ignorance which you can't help.

and yes, as a sender of a message, you're responsible for the perception of the receiver.
I'm responsible for your perception on this message. I don't care about that, but I am responsible.
__________________
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
Robert Plomp is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 11:27   #269
SpencerH
Civilization III PBEMCivilization III MultiplayerBtS Tri-League
Emperor
 
SpencerH's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Back in BAMA full time.
Posts: 4,502
Quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
Quote:
But without the context of the movie...
just because it's not the whole movie doesnt mean that the image is not a reference to it

are you saying that a photo of a movie in a magazine is not a reference to the movie?
Yes an image may, but not necessarily, reference a movie. The reference, and more importantly the message, may be unclear to those who havent seen the movie.

If the banner included a .gif with the scene with the dictator playing with the world-balloon (for example) instead of a lone photo, the intent might be more clear.

EDIT: poor wording but I got tired of fiddling with it
__________________
We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.
SpencerH is offline  
Old September 9, 2002, 11:36   #270
Spiffor
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG LegolandApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
Spiffor's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:34
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
I've seen the movie several times and I voted no before reading the thread.

I didn't recognize Chaplin to begin with. Even the disclaimer didn't made me to recognize Chaplin. Even if I know the movie, I've basically seen hitler.

I don't want to see someone who reminds me of hitler whenever I browse the forum.

Such a picture will not help Poly's image towards newcomers ; publishing it would really be an error.
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
Spiffor is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:34.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright Š The Apolyton Team