Most Decisive Battle in WW2

Frozzy · September 14, 2002, 06:08

We all know how many battles were in WW2. The Battle of the Bulge, the Battle of Britain, D-Day, the list goes on.

But which was the most important?

notyoueither · September 14, 2002, 06:22

The Battle of the Atlantic.

TheStinger · September 14, 2002, 06:22

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
The Battle of the Atlantic.

Yep

Ethelred · September 14, 2002, 06:29

Why no Midway?

I voted for Moscow but yes the Battle of the Atlantic was the most important but it wasn't really a single battle anymore than the Battle of Britain was.

How about Poland? Thats what turned it into a World War.

notyoueither · September 14, 2002, 06:33

Midway would be a good single turning point unlike most of the other ones.

The Atlantic was more of a running brawl. You don't want to fight one, but once your in it you have to win.

Case · September 14, 2002, 06:39

I'm with notyoueither. Midway was the only single battle of WW2 that actually turned the tide of affairs. All the other battles named were merely the logical result of past events.

Adalbertus · September 14, 2002, 06:46

Of those in the list, and from the German view, it is Stalingrad for me, which was the turning point against Russia. The Battle on England could have continued for years in the way it was. At D-Day, the war already was lost for Germany, only Hitler didn't realize that.

A more fundamental view: The Battle of Poland.

Dauphin · September 14, 2002, 06:54

I disagree with nye and case. To me a decisive battle is one that if the alternate outcome had occured would have had dire consequences for the new losers.

Lose Midway, and the US would still have had the ability to win the war, all be it taking longer.

Lose the battle of Britain, and you lose British war efforts, leading to no US involvement in Europe.

Lose the battle the Atlantic and you have no liberating invasion of Europe. The battle only possible due to vicotry in the Battle of Britain

Lose Stalingrad and you lose, for all intents and purposes, Russian effort in the war.

If the US involvement in WW2 was not so large, and the US position precarious (e.g threat of mainland invasion) then I would agree Midway was decisive. As it happens, it is not.

Just my take on the issue

C0ckney · September 14, 2002, 07:08

stalingrad wouldn't have meant russia dropping out, they would have kept on fighting, at least to the urals where much of their war production took place, the germans wouldn't of had the men and material to advance much beyond stalingrad anyway.

Dauphin · September 14, 2002, 07:12

The SU wouldn't have dropped out, but they would not have been the juggernaut of a fighting unit that they were when trampling down on Berlin in 1945.

Serb · September 14, 2002, 07:13

Quote:

stalingrad wouldn't have meant russia dropping out, they would have kept on fighting, at least to the urals where much of their war production took place, the germans wouldn't of had the men and material to advance much beyond stalingrad anyway.

Exactly. But it was turning point for Germany. After defeat at Stalingrad their chances to win the war were very close to zero. After Kursk- 0.00%

Alexander's Horse · September 14, 2002, 07:31

What a stupid list.

The decisive battle of the war against Japan was Midway. The Japanese navy never recovered.

The decisive battle of the war in Europe was Kursk. The German army never recovered.

Urban Ranger · September 14, 2002, 07:38

The Japanese never stood a chance once the US got involved. So my vote is Pearl Harbour, in the sense that it started the US in WWII with the end rather inevitable for the Axis.

On the Eastern Front Moscow is more decisive.

Adalbertus · September 14, 2002, 07:54

Kursk sank

Bugs ****ing Bunny · September 14, 2002, 08:17

I'd rank them as...

Kursk
Stalingrad
Midway
Alamein.

...in descending order.

atawa · September 14, 2002, 08:26

The battle for Britain, if Germany would have won this they could have focussed 100% on Russia.

Plus there would have been no chance in hell the US ever would have gotten the chance to invade France.

Sandman · September 14, 2002, 08:42

What on earth are the invasion of Italy and the battle of the Bulge doing there?One was hardly decisive, and one was hardly a battle.

As for decisive battles, I'd put the big Eastern Front battles all together, since I'm just not sure if Moscow, Stalingrad or Kursk was the most important.

Even if the Japanese had gained a 100% victory at Midway with 0% casualties, they would still have been crushed by American industrial capacity, plus, the small airbase at Midway would not have been especially helpful for conducting an invasion of an incredibly well defended Hawaii.

Chris 62 · September 14, 2002, 09:36

Most decisive is a though criteria, but following it, I would have to say Russia's Summer offensive following Kursk, 2 German army groups were rendered hors de combat, the Germans lost their foothood accross the Kerch peninsular, Italy dropped out of the conflict, the Soviets made it all the way to Kiev.

From this point, Russian offensives would only be stopped by troop exahuastion and supplies, not anything the Germans could do, you can't lose worse then the Germans did.

Midway in the Pacific ended Japanese expansion, but the Guadalcanal campaign cost them the war, that is where the attritioning of Japan was carried out.

The most IMPORTANT campaign was the battle of the Atlantic, without it, no "Bolero" (US build-up of forces in Britian), no Lend-Lease (Russian was kept alive by this from early42, to early43), no second front, nothing.

Kaak · September 14, 2002, 09:48

pearl harbor...otherwise we wouldn't have been in the war...atleast not for a while...

Akka · September 14, 2002, 11:33

Stalingrad or Moscow.

Alexander's Horse · September 19, 2002, 02:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

On the Eastern Front Moscow is more decisive.

Decisive? Moscow wasn't even very significant

Ned · September 19, 2002, 03:18

AH, I beg to differ. Hitler takes Moscow, he defeats the USSR, regardless of what Serb says. With the USSR out of the war, the Axis is stronger than Britain and the US. The Axis wins the war.

ZoboZeWarrior · September 19, 2002, 05:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandman
What on earth are the invasion of Italy and the battle of the Bulge doing there?One was hardly decisive, and one was hardly a battle.

I'm not such that the guys who died in Italy would have been 100% agree with you, if they could express their mind.

Italy war was necessary to open a second front againt German forces.

Sikander · September 19, 2002, 05:13

I vote for Midway. The Japanese with their smaller fleet and much smaller industrial capacity desperately needed to retain their principal advantage, which was a decisive edge in Carriers. Midway took this away in one throw. Without Midway far more resources would have been sent to the Pacific in order to hold on to Hawaii and keep the lifeline to Australia open, especially when one considers that the U.S. may well have lost more carriers in a losing battle as well as not sinking the four Japanese carriers.

Aircraft that were sent to Europe would have been used to (relatively inefficiently) protect these vital base areas in the Pacific instead. The slow safe attrition that was used to build up an unstoppable force in the Pacific while throwing most of the shipbuilding effort into the Atlantic would not have been possible, with potentially dire effects for the Battle of the Atlantic. Even if the Japanese didn't press on to Hawaii, they could have nonetheless siezed Midway and Johnston Islands and pushed their submarine fleet much further west where land based air could not protect allied convoys from the United States, putting a further strain on allied shipping. Midway was a rarity for WWII, a truly decisive battle.

Serb · September 19, 2002, 05:21

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Urban Ranger · September 19, 2002, 05:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Decisive? Moscow wasn't even very significant

In what fashion?

It is the beginning of the end for the Germans. This is the first time the Soviets stopped the Germans in their advances for any signficant objectives. It is also a great morale booster if I haven't mistaken. The Winter Offensive following it is definitely very interesting.

Tingkai · September 19, 2002, 06:16

I vote for the Battle of Britain. The RAF's victory ensured that the Germans would give up the idea of invading Britain.

If the RAF had lost, then everything changes. A German invasion would likely occur and Britain was in no shape to win a land battle. If Britain gets knocked out of the war then the Battle for the Atlantic becomes irrelevant, there is no El-Alamein, no invasion of Europe, no battle of the Bulge, the German war machine is not exposed to bombing raids, etc.

The Battle of Britain is also significant because the Germans could easily have won it.

Bereta_Eder · September 19, 2002, 06:20

Greece - Italy.

Greece defeats Italy, Germany has to divert troops, Russians wipe the floor with Germans after that delay.

Bereta_Eder · September 19, 2002, 08:45

Not that Russia would not have wiped the floor with the Germans and save Europe'ass anyway but we made it a bit more easy to do

(OK Serb?

)

ZoboZeWarrior · September 19, 2002, 08:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Tingkai
The Battle of Britain is also significant because the Germans could easily have won it.

Thanks to the skill of British pilots and the madness of Hitler !