About capturing planes

Akaoz · September 15, 2002, 10:22

I saw someone trying to figure out how to capture enemy polanes the other day.

This may be old news, but by default one can capture Stealth bombers, because they have no defense rating. Bombers have a dense rating of 2 so they go the way of ships when the city falls.

-Alech

Thrawn05 · September 15, 2002, 10:46

I don't think any planes can be captured. I've captured cities and watch even SB be dstroyed.

Akaoz · September 15, 2002, 10:48

Well, I'm playing your version of Marla's World Map and I just captured about 10 Stealth Bombers from the Chinese. All Bobmers fall to the ground though.

-Alech

Gramphos · September 15, 2002, 10:53

Probably sometying with the changed rules of Marla's map.

BTW why isn't the Creation forum used for this kind of discussions?

Thrawn05 · September 15, 2002, 11:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Gramphos
Probably sometying with the changed rules of Marla's map.

BTW why isn't the Creation forum used for this kind of discussions?

Sad isn't? You work very hard to maintain the Files and Creation forums and for what? Forced to check here for topics that should go into those forums.

When will people learn.

Akaoz · September 15, 2002, 11:46

As far as I can see from the editor there are no settings that have been changed when it comes to the Stealth Bomber.

Gramphos · September 15, 2002, 13:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Akaoz
As far as I can see from the editor there are no settings that have been changed when it comes to the Stealth Bomber.

No, but it might be something else that makes the game not recognize it as non capturable.

I don't know.

Thrawn05 · September 15, 2002, 13:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Akaoz
As far as I can see from the editor there are no settings that have been changed when it comes to the Stealth Bomber.

Try this in a normal game first. THe mod may be corrupt.

Please PM me further.

vmxa1 · September 15, 2002, 13:37

I have grabbed cities that had stealth bombers and they were distroyed not captured, for what it is worth.

Anna749 · September 15, 2002, 13:54

Myself I prefer to win using no war, although I havent won yet . I plan on stayin well away from the United Nations this time. But I would have to say it would be cultral and tech or the space for me

Thrawn05 · September 15, 2002, 13:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna749
Myself I prefer to win using no war, although I havent won yet . I plan on stayin well away from the United Nations this time. But I would have to say it would be cultral and tech or the space for me

I think this is the wrong thread... or did I miss somthing... which is nothing new.

Wormwood · September 15, 2002, 15:48

Anna749, I think you're looking for the thread "Which victory do you usually go for?"

Carver · September 15, 2002, 16:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Anna749
Myself I prefer to win using no war, although I havent won yet .

Yeah, exactly where I was when I first installed the game. Civ3 is dog eat dog... you can be lunch or you can eat lunch.

Anna749 · September 15, 2002, 16:51

oops

My mistake...lol....thought I was gettin in the right one there.....Forgive me...must be me age creepin up on me...lol....

vulture · September 15, 2002, 17:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05
I don't think any planes can be captured. I've captured cities and watch even SB be dstroyed.

It's pretty easy to set up a test with the editor to show that with an unmodded game, stealth bombers, stealth fighters and cruise missiles can all be captured...

Thrawn05 · September 15, 2002, 19:27

Quote:

Originally posted by vulture

It's pretty easy to set up a test with the editor to show that with an unmodded game, stealth bombers, stealth fighters and cruise missiles can all be captured...

Then my game is corrupt because even in a normal game (I spent this afternoon trying it out myself) SB and SF were destroyed. Cruise missiles can be captured.

vulture · September 15, 2002, 19:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05

Then my game is corrupt because even in a normal game (I spent this afternoon trying it out myself) SB and SF were destroyed. Cruise missiles can be captured.

Or perhaps my game is corrupted. Curious.

Catt · September 15, 2002, 20:11

Your game is probably just fine.

Certain units (chiefly bombardment, in any event, those units without A/D stats) are either captured or destroyed, depending upon if you have the requisite technological know-how.

If you capture a city that bases stealth bombers or fighters, you will destory the planes unless you have discovered Stealth - if you have discovered Stealth, you will capture the planes.

Same thing with cannons and Metallurgy - if you know the tech, you can capture cannons - otherwise your troops destroy the mysterious contraptions.

Catt

vmxa1 · September 15, 2002, 20:32

Let me reiterate, I have captured cities with SB and they were destroyed. I have never had a game were the AI beat me to Stealth, even at Deity. In other words, I had all req/prereq or coreq techs.

Catt · September 15, 2002, 20:44

It usually happens to me when I don't bother to research Stealth (not required for a win). Perhaps someone can do a simple test with the editor (or I will try to do so later tonight).

I have captured cities and destoryed SBs and other times captured cities and captured SBs - it has always tracked with my own technological knowledge (as I believe is stated in the manual or civilopedia).

vmxa1 - have you ever captured SBs? Is it your contention that it is random, or that there is another trigger which determines capture or destroy? And do you always research Stealth even though it is a totally optional tech?

I'm not sure what you mean by your post.

Catt

vmxa1 · September 15, 2002, 20:59

I mean I have never captured any type of plane. So I can only say that every time I have taken a city with ship/planes they were destroyed and I had the tech for them. I can not say it is not possible, just I am very doubtful.
In games were I turn off short cut victory conditions I will end up with all techs. If victory can ne done with culture/space what ever, the game will likely end before that point. The AI is not going to go for stealth for some time, so it will only beat you to it if you just don't want it.

Fredric Drum · September 15, 2002, 21:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Gramphos
Probably sometying with the changed rules of Marla's map.

BTW why isn't the Creation forum used for this kind of discussions?

Because it has nothing to do with changed rules... I play a standard rule set, and still capture stealth bombers. Not regular bombers, though.

vmxa1 · September 15, 2002, 21:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt

I'm not sure what you mean by your post.

Catt

Sorry, Req/prereq/creq are terms for mainframe programmers using assembler language. When you have a program written that is part of a system and need to make a fix you may find that you need to force some other code to be applied. This may be done with a COREQ/Pre or req. This is a way to prevent a given fix from being applied if say it was meant for a correction that is not universal. In short, I was saying regardless of any tech need for the unit, I would have had it a the point in time where I captured the city and it was still destroyed. This is how it has worked for me in all iterations (that is I have applied all of the patches as they came out).

Catt · September 15, 2002, 21:28

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
I mean I have never captured any type of plane. So I can only say that every time I have taken a city with ship/planes they were destroyed and I had the tech for them. I can not say it is not possible, just I am very doubtful.
In games were I turn off short cut victory conditions I will end up with all techs. If victory can ne done with culture/space what ever, the game will likely end before that point. The AI is not going to go for stealth for some time, so it will only beat you to it if you just don't want it.

Okay - I get you. I'm just saying that I (and apparently others) have frequently captured stealth planes (either bombers or fighters). But I've never seen myself, nor seen anyone report, capturing a non-stealth plane.

Stealth B's and F's do not carry hitpoints - they have no attack or defense points as Akaoz pointed out in the first post - only bombarment and movement (range) values - just like artillery units.

My point is that I believe that it is a game rule that pure bombardment units, when "captured" by an enemy, are either: (1) destroyed, if the "capturer" does not have the requisite technological know-how, or (2) captured, if the "capturer" does have the requisite technological know-how.

Your post seems to say, with quite a bit of certainty, that this is not the case. And I am just trying to get at whether your memory is faulty or my understanding of game rules is faulty.

Catt

vmxa1 · September 16, 2002, 01:14

I am well aware of that and understood it when you and others mentioned. It just has not worked that way in any of those scores of games I have played. I wonder if mods are involved in the games others are talking about? I could be confused about running into Stl Fighters and not bombes. I mention nothing about the rules and specifically said it may be possible, only that I do not recall seeing it. IOW you all may be correct and I may have just never actually run into Stl bombers and mistook Stl fighters in my feable memory. For sure regular planes I have seen destoyed in every game.

Thrawn05 · September 16, 2002, 09:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt
Your game is probably just fine.

Certain units (chiefly bombardment, in any event, those units without A/D stats) are either captured or destroyed, depending upon if you have the requisite technological know-how.

Funny, I've captured Cannons without knowing Military Traditions nore having the saltpeter to build one.

bongo · September 16, 2002, 09:58

Well, you don't have to have the resources to build it, only the technology.

You can only capture units which you have the tech to build yourself AND have A/D of zero. And there are even special cases(settlers, nukes) which cannot be captured even if you have the tech. They possibly have a 'no_capture' flag set...

Isn't metallurgy the tech required to build cannons?

Akaoz · September 16, 2002, 10:00

Quote:

Originally posted by bongo
Isn't metallurgy the tech required to build cannons?

Yes it is.

vulture · September 16, 2002, 10:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05

Funny, I've captured Cannons without knowing Military Traditions nore having the saltpeter to build one.

Well cannons do arrive with Metallurgy rather than Military Tradition

The resources to build a unit seem to be irrelevant to whether they can be captured. But it does look as though different people's games are behaving in a somewhat different manner. I imagine that vmxa1 and Thrawn05 are able to tell whether they have the techs to build e.g. stealth bombers when those units are destroyed when capturing a city, since they both seem to have a good understanding of the game. OTOH I know that stealth aircraft (fighters and bombers, not that the AI ever builds SF) can be captured in my (unmodded) games. Which suggests either a bug, a dodgy installation of the game, or some extra variable that we're all overlooking so far.

Tiberius · September 16, 2002, 10:12

Somebody from Firaxis could enlighten us on this one.