So when's Civ3 gonna take over?

[Stefan Härtel]

I somehow get the feeling that the old Civ2 way of things is slowly dying out. Most former Civ2 sites now have a Civ3 section, and the prospects of a scenario-friendly add-on in near future seem to promise a flourishing scenario culture.
I, myself, have played, if summed up, perhaps a total of 2 hours of Civ3. It simply didn't hook me the way other games, such as Civ2 or AoK did after playing them for only a short while. I found it difficult to manage, though that's not the only thing... I just didn't get into it, and now it rests in my CDROM-drawer along with other games I was very excited about before I played the first turn, such as SMAC.
That means, I strongly believe that my creativity here will die with Civ2, but I'm not sure when this will be. Civ2 has lived incredibly long now, despite releases such as CTP, CTP2, SMAC etc.
Any thoughts?

[Goingonit]

Neverrrrr!

Civ 2 may die, but it will be replaced by a game other than Civ 3.

[LDiCesare]

If not civ3 then what?
ToT had better scenario-design tools than MGE or FW. Still it didn't catch a broad audience. CtP was considered pitiful, which made CtP2 have limited audience, even though the game was more moddable and promising than civ2.
I have played most of the civ2 scenarios I was interested in translating to ToT, and all native-ToT scenarios I could find that I found interesting too. Now, I think I will go CtP2 when I'll come back to TBS after a pause, or buy Civ3 if CtP2 mods are not enough fun/challenging.
So, it will be civ3 or nothing. Why?

civ2 had lots of audience. ToT and CtP2, with better scenario-making tools, didn't have much of an audience, and so there are much less scenarios for these than for regular civ2. The only game left is civ3. It has a large audience. There is no "official" civ-like game projected that I know of in any near future. The next TBS should be MoO3 for which mods won't mean the same as in civ2. Alternate civs are even worse than ToT and CtP2 in term of audience. So what else? Would you spend the energy making mods noone will ever download and play and give feedback to you?

[klesh]

Once again I am not allowed to vote in an Apolyton poll because of my 'invalid session'.


My vote goes to 'never'.

-FMK.

[H Tower]

we may not go along with civ3, but i think that there is a large group of people extremely interested, capable in making great scenarios. well, great if you like civ3 anyways

[St Leo]

Whenever the price for Civ3 will fall under $39.99 CAD and I will feel like buying it.

[Heresson]

I had a thread *about* about this that was closed by this MarkG in civ3 section

Anyway I think that civ2 should not be abandoned; game as a game, but there are wonderfull scenarios to not be forgotten; unless there's a way to convert them to civ3. But even if so, some things won't work as based on bugs, and the history of scenarioship...
Of course civ3 could mean slow decline of civ3, but on the other hand, it may mean that new people shall be attracted by civ3 and perhaps (hoping...) would also notice civ2 and get interested in it...

[Gelvan]

My thought ist, that IF civ3 was made to make money, and one smart guy on infogrames or wherever reckons, that scenario making is what people want, then the next civ3 expansion won't be the last. Even civ2 was sold 4 times before it became ToT. The small audience of ToT IMO is because many people just did not want to pay for civ2 AGAIN. Which is a pitty if you consider ToT's scenario-ability - but it's understandable nevertheless.

Me personally won't send civ3 in the basket, but I'm not eager to buy the expansion for much money. So in two or three years if the second or even thierd expansion of civ3 is available for 10$ - I'll switch to civ3. In the meantime, there are hundreds of scenarios for civ2 which want to be converted to ToT *g*


I just think Civ2/FW/ToT has something special, something "real" which civ 3 - yet - just doesn't have.

A sequel IMO is something which starts at the point where the precedessor stopped. And this sentence just isn't true for civ3. And THAT is - for me - the main reason why I haven't as much fun to play civ3, as I had to play civ2 when it came out. Civ1 -> Civ2 was a huge step forward, without killing the civ feeling. Civ2 -> Civ3 was another game and not at least fullfilling what was hoped for.

Everytime I play Civ3 I just think "why was that not implemented?" or "this makes no sense". Even if i changed the rules.txt of civ2 since it came out *g*, it IS possible to play civ2 "out of the box" - and that's not true for civ3 - there you HAVE to change the rules to have fun.

I know I'm biassed. Well... so what?

[yaroslav]

Never. Without a script/event language, the scenaries on Civ3, can not be so good like Civ2 scenaries.

Also, Civ2 MP [Multiplayer] is a very funny experience. I don't know if Civ3 MP can be as fun as Civ2 MP

[Heresson]

Gelvan; someone in the civ3 forum claimed that civ2 was civ1 with better graphics only...

[H Tower]

Originally posted by Heresson
Gelvan; someone in the civ3 forum claimed that civ2 was civ1 with better graphics only...

was that before or after his mother grounded him for staying out past 8pm?

[Heresson]

A lot of people complained about civ2 there...
traitors!

[LDiCesare]

What about this question: If you think civ3 won't take over, what will, and when? How long will civ2 retain players? No new players will come to civ2 I am afraid, the number of new scenarios will dwindle, so there will be less and less players, then less scenario makers and civ2 will eventually vanish. If civ3 hasn't taken over, what will? I cannot see.

[St Leo]

SimCity 2000 Urban Renewal Kit forums took forever to die (up to last year, I reckon) and those are basically the equivalent of our Graphics Showcase thread. We'll remain alive for quite some time.

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by yaroslav
Never. Without a script/event language, the scenaries on Civ3, can not be so good like Civ2 scenaries.

Also, Civ2 MP [Multiplayer] is a very funny experience. I don't know if Civ3 MP can be as fun as Civ2 MP

Exactly. It had bothered me nearly all year that what passes as Civ3 "scenarios" are not scenarios at all, but custom maps and starting locations. I really don't think that even with Civ3:PtW, we would be able to develop true scenarios. Over the spring and summer, I had spent too many hours at the Civ3 forums about scenario-building capabilities of Civ2, esp. with events, but it was like teaching a bunch of kindergartners algebra.

[klesh]

I tried a bit too Steeve, and we tried together one time IIRC. Like flogging a bloody well dead horse.

[Civfan]

Trying to recall but wasn't event language released in Fantastic Worlds for Civ 2? This was their second expansion pact. Just look at history. Sid and the marketing teams of Infogames know how to make money off the franchise.

Heres a question for everyone, do you think Microprose had the capabilities to release Civ2 MPG with the First Civ2 game in 1996?

Well they surely do now with Civ3 but they didn't release MPG with the game!

Its marketing. I think theres going to be a event language and stuff, unfortunlity we all have to wait for it. Look at the release date of Civ3 Play the world. Its in October, just around for Christmas.

Business rules everything in America. Just be patient. The scenario stuff will here soon, 6-8 months I promise! Its sad but true!

[St Leo]

Event language was released with Conflicts in Civilisation, the first expansion pack.

Yes, Microprose had the capability to release Civ2 MPG with the first Civ2 game.

It's not marketing. It's unrealistic release dates that have to be met.

[mrboo123]

Civ3 will never take over Civ2, the only way its going to die is if Civ4 is made and its a very good game, with MP with the game, and the stuff to make the scenario stuff.

[Heresson]

Civ2 should never be abandoned until upgrade of existing scns is possible.