Thread Tools
Old September 17, 2002, 18:26   #1
Babsimov
Settler
 
Local Time: 08:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: France
Posts: 4
turism and wonders
Could Firaxis add in a futur add on a new function to Greats Wonders ?
When a Great Wonder becomes obsolete, it produces only culture and only for
the builder
civilization (nothing if captured).

An obsolete great wonder might produce income because of tourism. 1 gold per
turn and for
each foreign civilization in contact with its owner. Of course only
peacefull civilization can share tourists.

A great wonder that never expires produces gold after existing for 500 or
1000
years.

Small Wonders don't produce gold (but this option could br available)

All these options shall be editable (through the editor).

What do you think ?
Babsimov is offline  
Old September 17, 2002, 19:05   #2
Carver
Prince
 
Carver's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Posts: 560
Obsolete and functioning wonders should both draw tourists, the Empire State Building gets tourists doesn't it? 1 gpt for every 10 million civizens(tm) living in civs the owner is at peace with.
Carver is offline  
Old September 18, 2002, 02:23   #3
Tiberius
PtWDG LegolandCivilization III PBEMInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization IV CreatorsC4DG Sarantium
Emperor
 
Tiberius's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 4,496
I have some ideas about tourism, unfortunately some of them could appear only in a future civ4, if ever. Nevertheless, if at least the basic idea could make it, I'd be happy


TOURISM
Tourism should appear after the discovery of steam power (railroad) or another invention that gave people the ability to travel more & easily. Starting from this moment, every city that possesses a Basic Tourism Resource would start to receive a steady income from tourism. The total amount of money a city is receiving would depend on the Advanced Tourism Resources and on the Global Tourism Resources.

Basic Tourism Resources
They will generate a fixed amount of money, no matter how small or big the city is.
- natural resources (luxuries and some new terrain types: sand beaches, snowy mountains, exotic animals)
- city improvements: very old temples, colosseums, cathedrals
- wonders: all the great wonders and some small wonders (Heroic Epic and ?)
- natural wonders (ex: Mount Everest, Niagara Fall); they could randomly appear during the map generating process

Advanced Tourism Resources
They will increase with a certain percentage the city's tourism income
- the size, wealth and culture of the city (with a special bonus for Top5 cities)
- infrastructure (railroad connection, airport, harbor)
- city improvements (ex: hotels, casinos, entertainment centers)
- "We Love the ..." days
- maybe a small wonder: Disney Land ?

Global Tourism Resources
They will increase or decrease with a certain percentage the tourism income throughout your entire empire
- certain discoveries (ex: telephone, television, Internet – through better communication and advertisement; I know they are not in civ3, so find some substitutes: electronics, flight, or maybe something else)
- great wonders (ex: Olympic Games)
- pollution (will decrease it)
- war (a war waged inside your borders should drastically reduce the tourism income)
- the reputation of your civ
- your civ's total culture (the bigger the better)
- happiness and freedom of your citizens; more democratic government would increase the tourism income;

As you can see most of these factors would handle your tourism income automatically, there would be only a few new things that you should manage separately: some new terrain types and a few new city improvements and wonders.

Thoughts?
__________________
"The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody Allen
Tiberius is offline  
Old September 18, 2002, 07:36   #4
Martinus Magnificus
Chieftain
 
Martinus Magnificus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Posts: 89
You have to look at tourism from an economic point of view. Where does the money that tourists spend go to? Not to the government, if you ask me! Although one could argue that indirectly the government benefits of tourism by taxation of income, I would say that it works in both ways: your people visit foreign countries as well and spend money there too. You'll only notice a difference when your country has significantly more touristic sites (e.g. wonders) than other countries. IMO the implementation of such a system would be out of the scope of this game. It's not Capitalism, you know!

"Show me the moneeeey!!!"
Martinus Magnificus is offline  
Old September 18, 2002, 09:21   #5
Tiberius
PtWDG LegolandCivilization III PBEMInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization IV CreatorsC4DG Sarantium
Emperor
 
Tiberius's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 4,496
Quote:
Originally posted by Martinus Magnificus
You have to look at tourism from an economic point of view.
I am.

From an article on http://www.peopleandplanet.net/ and some WTO data from 2000:

Quote:
By some measure tourism may already be the world's largest industry, with annual revenue approaching $500 billion.

Leisure is estimated to account for 75 per cent of all international travel. The World Tourism Organisation (WTO) estimated there were 698 million international tourist arrivals in 2000.

The World Travel and Tourism Council (WTTC) predicts global turnover from tourism in 2001 will be around £2.3 trillion - 10.8 per cent of global GDP.

Globally, tourism accounts for roughly 35 per cent of exports of services and over 8 per cent of exports of goods (WTO).

In 1995, 11 per cent of the global workforce - over 200 million people (predicted to rise to 340 million by 2005) - were directly or indirectly employed in tourism (International Labour Organisation - ILO). These figures would make tourism the world's largest employer and arguable it's largest business in terms of income.

For 83 per cent of countries in the world, tourism is one of the top five sources of foreign exchange.

Caribbean countries derive half their GDP from tourism. (World Resources Institute)
__________________
"The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody Allen
Tiberius is offline  
Old September 18, 2002, 13:15   #6
Martinus Magnificus
Chieftain
 
Martinus Magnificus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Posts: 89
I must admit that tourism is a major source of income for some countries, but as I said, it works in both ways. To implement such a concept in Civ III would not only be difficult, it would also go beyond the scope of the game. One could as well argue that, for example, the concept of unemployment should be incorporated in the game. Or the concept of natural disasters. We must realise that a computer game is always an abstraction of the real thing. that implies that only relevant concepts are implemented in a game. The question therefore is: is the concept of tourism crucial for a game like Civ III? I think it is not.
Martinus Magnificus is offline  
Old September 18, 2002, 16:18   #7
CiverDan
Civilization III MultiplayerPtWDG Lux InvictaInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Roleplay
Prince
 
Local Time: 03:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 733
Maybe captured wonders shouldn't produce income, but they should still produce SOME culture, maybe half the original culture value.
__________________
Citizen of the Apolyton team in the ISDG
Currently known as Senor Rubris in the PTW DG team
CiverDan is offline  
Old September 19, 2002, 01:47   #8
Tiberius
PtWDG LegolandCivilization III PBEMInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization IV CreatorsC4DG Sarantium
Emperor
 
Tiberius's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 4,496
Quote:
Originally posted by Martinus Magnificus
The question therefore is: is the concept of tourism crucial for a game like Civ III? I think it is not.
I didn't say it is crucial. But what is really crucial in civ3? Workers are not, culture is not, barbarians are not, caravans and spies are not (since they dissapeared) etc, a lot of things are not essential, they are (or were) there for fun.

For me, having extra money from tourism would be fun. I don't like wars (l mean, warmongering all game long), and managing a civ's economy is quite boring, right now.

Quote:
implement such a concept in Civ III would not only be difficult
Why would it be difficult? It would be some extra money flowing in, 2 or 3 new terrain types (but not necesarily), one great wonder (Olympic Games), one small wonder (Disney Land), one extra city improvement (stadium or casino or something like this) and some calculation the computer would automatically handle.
It is very similar to the trade system: gold mines, marketplaces, banks, Wall Street, Adam Smith, ...
What is so complicated here?

Civ3 added depth to the economic system, with the addition of resources, but sadly, the fun of managing an economy is close to zero.
__________________
"The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody Allen
Tiberius is offline  
Old September 19, 2002, 07:42   #9
Adagio
staff
Spore
Deity
 
Adagio's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
Quote:
Originally posted by Tiberius
I have some ideas about tourism, unfortunately some of them could appear only in a future civ4, if ever. Nevertheless, if at least the basic idea could make it, I'd be happy
Great ideas I posted some of my ideas about this concept of tourism some months ago, but your's better

Tourism is an important factor for civs in modern days, so why not implent it in Civ4...

Though, since this has something to do, with how the other civs are seeing your civ, the regard system has to get repaired (Pretty strange, that you have to be at war to have friends)...
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
Adagio is offline  
Old September 19, 2002, 08:54   #10
Tiberius
PtWDG LegolandCivilization III PBEMInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization IV CreatorsC4DG Sarantium
Emperor
 
Tiberius's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 4,496
Quote:
Originally posted by ADG
Great ideas I posted some of my ideas about this concept of tourism some months ago, but your's better
Thanks

Quote:
(Pretty strange, that you have to be at war to have friends)...
True, true.

This reminds me another AI stupidity:
Sometimes I am between 2 civs that are in war and they have to cross my teritory to fight each other. For strategic reasons (kind of puppet policy, favorizing one civ to weaken another) , I offer to one of them RoP and, instead of beeing happy for getting an advantage, they ask me to give them RoP and a tech or money. Yeah, right!
__________________
"The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody Allen
Tiberius is offline  
Old September 21, 2002, 06:20   #11
rob.derosa
Chieftain
 
rob.derosa's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 76
How about hosting the Olympics, that would generate revenue and also bring in the tourists! Of course, you would have to build the WOnder first.
rob.derosa is offline  
Old September 21, 2002, 06:41   #12
Hagbart
InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
Prince
 
Hagbart's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 835
I like the idea that you get a few gold per turn for each old Wonder you have. If you went to war you should loose some of the gold because no turists will visit your cities. (At least not turists from the civ you are at war with).
__________________
Try my Lord of the Rings MAP out: Lands of Middle Earth v2 NEWS: Now It's a flat map, optimized for Conquests

The new iPod nano: nano
Hagbart is offline  
Old September 21, 2002, 06:43   #13
Hagbart
InterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
Prince
 
Hagbart's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally posted by rob.derosa
How about hosting the Olympics, that would generate revenue and also bring in the tourists! Of course, you would have to build the WOnder first.
Olympics every fouth year. Then you would have several Olympics per turn early in the game.
__________________
Try my Lord of the Rings MAP out: Lands of Middle Earth v2 NEWS: Now It's a flat map, optimized for Conquests

The new iPod nano: nano
Hagbart is offline  
Old September 21, 2002, 12:19   #14
rob.derosa
Chieftain
 
rob.derosa's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally posted by Hagbart


Olympics every fouth year. Then you would have several Olympics per turn early in the game.
1) The time limit would probably be different,

2) I said you had to build a wonder first, so it may only become available in the industrial age.
rob.derosa is offline  
Old September 21, 2002, 19:45   #15
Babsimov
Settler
 
Local Time: 08:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: France
Posts: 4
Tiberius : i agree with all your ideas, very good

Matinus Magnifcus : sorry but turism can be automaticly handled by the game as some people said in this thread.

I like Olympic, some ideas :

The Olympic Wonder, allow first olympic stadium small wonder and organisation of the first olymic game and after every four years. After the first olympic game, other civ can build the olympic stadium small wonder. When a civilization complete it, she can compete with others olympic stadium owners to organise the next olymic game. All the peacefull civilization (with or without olympic stadium) vote for choose the winner civilization. The previous olympic game organiser can't compete.

Olympic game double gold from tourism for the next 4 years for the organiser and treble gold for the olympic wonder owner.
Babsimov is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 06:48   #16
Tiberius
PtWDG LegolandCivilization III PBEMInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization IV CreatorsC4DG Sarantium
Emperor
 
Tiberius's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 4,496
Babsimov, isn't this a little bit too complicated?

I think a great wonder called Olympic Games ought to be enough. It would either boost your tourism income or (for those who like the idea of organizing the games once in 4 years) it could generate extra money every 4 turns.
Also the Olympics should improve your reputation, IMHO.
__________________
"The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody Allen
Tiberius is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 12:07   #17
Babsimov
Settler
 
Local Time: 08:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: France
Posts: 4
Yes a little complicated, but i think it add more fun for peace time.
Babsimov is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 16:20   #18
Carver
Prince
 
Carver's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: reprocessing plutonium, Yongbyon, NK
Posts: 560
Quote:
Originally posted by CiverDan
Maybe captured wonders shouldn't produce income, but they should still produce SOME culture, maybe half the original culture value.
Of course they should, if the Taj Mahal gets captured by Pakistan, won't tourists still go there? No one who captured the Taj Mahal (except the Taliban maybe) would ever burn it down because it has aquired universal cultural value.
Carver is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 16:27   #19
Nubclear
NationStatesCall to Power II Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamRise of Nations MultiplayerACDG The Human HiveNever Ending StoriesACDG The Free DronesACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessGalCiv Apolyton EmpireACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameDiplomacyAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG Peace
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
 
Nubclear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:10
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally posted by Carver


Of course they should, if the Taj Mahal gets captured by Pakistan, won't tourists still go there? No one who captured the Taj Mahal (except the Taliban maybe) would ever burn it down because it has aquired universal cultural value.
I wouldn't visit one captured by Pakistan. I wouldnt visit a statue of liberty captured by Cuba, nor St. Basils Cathedral captured by Maoist China.
Nubclear is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:10.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team