Nicosar's Master Challenge

[Flatlander Fox]

You do realize that many players know the game inside and out, know most of the cheats that exist, and can dissect the game on singular beakers and the tiniest pattern.

These things are all part of the game.

You are obviously too young to remember "playing by mail" but I do, because I used to do it before the wonderful land of the internet.

Many games that I played, required me to roll the dice, write down the result, and then smack a stamp on 'em and send them off to be adjudicated. I won a few games and lost a few playing old games that way. The people that were suspected of cheating weren't invited to play again.

There's a certain honor system here. You read the posts and see us carry on about how vile this person or that person is, but one thing you never see is us questioning each other's honor.

It doesn't happen.

I don't understand why you feel like you have one upped us in some way. I have created a few scenarios in my time, and have enjoyed playing them. I know what I am doing, and know what you have done is not playable.

[Ming]

The little scum bag probably hasn't read rah rules, and has no clue that we can follow a set of clearly defined rules. While I'm sure he would disagree with the rules we play by... we respect them and honor them, because that's what gaming is all about.

What a low life.

[War4ever]

Originally posted by Flatlander Fox
You do realize that many players know the game inside and out, know most of the cheats that exist, and can dissect the game on singular beakers and the tiniest pattern.

These things are all part of the game.

You are obviously too young to remember "playing by mail" but I do, because I used to do it before the wonderful land of the internet.

Many games that I played, required me to roll the dice, write down the result, and then smack a stamp on 'em and send them off to be adjudicated. I won a few games and lost a few playing old games that way. The people that were suspected of cheating weren't invited to play again.

There's a certain honor system here. You read the posts and see us carry on about how vile this person or that person is, but one thing you never see is us questioning each other's honor.

It doesn't happen.

I don't understand why you feel like you have one upped us in some way. I have created a few scenarios in my time, and have enjoyed playing them. I know what I am doing, and know what you have done is not playable.

If i question someones integrity in this game, they don't play with me again, pure and simple. so people who change rules or cheat, or don't tell about free techs or whatever it is that is unscrupolous can forget about a game with me....

don't be an idiot....and dont try to hide behind your idiocy....its not working

[Nicosar]

I am indeed heart-felt and sorrowfully apologetically that my words have caused such scrupples, and if I knew they were stingful as such I would not have thought about even saying them in the first place, since my intent was not to accuse anybody, and certainly not anybody in particular, but to express certain intimate views of mine which felt that my rules would not be accepted, and I expected contradicting arguments long before I thought anybody would think me of accusing them, since that's how innocent was my tone when writing it.

I would not consider any of you honorless, and neither do I actually dislike any of you, even the fervently venerable Ming, even though we argue with such edge some times, but I cannot honestly exclaim after all that I love any of you whole-heartedly and that I would trust you with absolute faith!

I thought I was simply voicing my honest opinions about this and not implying anything lower, but I will try and be careful in the future, not only because it is a touchy sucject, since even if I were accused (which I was), I would try to defend myself first rather than feel insulted (which I never really was), but also I will tread more lightly because I do not want anybody to misinterpret what I said, because if you could take it from the man who wrote it, it was merely a sentiment and not an insult...

I hope that is good enough, I cannot give you a pleadingly obvious and guilty little snippet of complete repention, but I did say I was sorry, and seriously, and so I hope that meets your demands which stated those very two factors as key

[Ming]

Originally posted by Nicosar
but I cannot honestly exclaim after all that I love any of you whole-heartedly and that I would trust you with absolute faith!

Even buried in his so called apology, he manages to continue the insulting crap.

You are the one with no honor, and are no longer welcome at Apolyton for breaking the accusation without proof rule.

[War4ever]

Ming i am sure he will turn in a 10 page essay to you asking for reinstatement

[Ming]

A real apology would have been enough.

He continues to claim that we would cheat... he must have very little experience in a gaming community. Our names and reputations are the most important thing we have. Without them, we are nothing.

For him to claim that he can't trust us without having ANY damn proof just show's his total lack of character, and maybe he should reconsider if he should be a gamer, because he obviously doesn't understand what gaming is all about.

Until I get a pm from him saying that he will give a real apology instead of the farce he posted above that continues to call us cheaters, he isn't going to be posting at Apolyton. He is breaking the most serious rule of this gaming forum.

[War4ever]

Well i agree...... perhaps if you guys hash it out in pm things will go better for him and you can stress some of the rules or point him to the FAQ, speaking of which, pehaps an update in the faq needs to be mentioned to mark/dan about accusations ?

[boann]

well im going to stick my neck out and say
i love you guys....but dang....
what got ya'lls boxers in a wad.....
i just don't see the personal insult directed at anyone
in particular....just his own confession that he didn't know any of us and therefore didn't trust ...

you have all tolerated eyes and strats diatribes
so i don't see much difference and neither of them are baned.

[Ming]

You are welcome to your opinion boann... but he is still violating the accusation without proof rule.

Honor is important for gamers, and with no experience with most posters here, he still says he wouldn't trust us not to cheat.

Scum like him shouldn't belong to any gaming community. Gaming is all about trust. Like FF, I've played games by email where you roll the dice and send the results on. You can't do things like that without a basis of trust.

For him to imply that he can't, without any reason...

He's toast.

[War4ever]

Originally posted by boann
well im going to stick my neck out and say
i love you guys....
you have all tolerated eyes and strats diatribes
so i don't see much difference and neither of them are baned.

well yes and no on that one.....many have been warned for their antics on the forums .....i am sure many more will too

[Flatlander Fox]

Originally posted by War4ever
don't be an idiot....and dont try to hide behind your idiocy....its not working

You do realize that you copied my statement and then wrote this reply to it.

You've hurt my feelings now.

[War4ever]

i was wondering if you would post about that....it wasnt' directed to you... the idiot comments that is...i was just quoting you cuz i had some other things to say, then i didn't say them....

anyways, what i was going to say was, no hard feelings between us, there is a trust to not cheat, but no trust in game ethics

[boann]

i have seen eyes and strat slice and dice and mutilate and leave bleeding victims....with their barbs and insults
yet they still have access...

this one maybe proud and full of himself but i see no personal insult to any one person.

i too have pride in my rep and honor
and i know all of you are honorable
but hes new to us and why should he trust any of us
till he knows us better.

anyway i just think its an injustice to see someone
new sliced and laid out for dinner
when others roam free guilty of much more, even tho not here now certainly could and will in the future do and say more vile things than was said here.

[Ming]

Yes... breaking an alliance is one thing... breaking the rules is another. People who break the rules are cheaters... People who break alliances are just opportunists, and should expect any future revenge that comes their way

[War4ever]

Have you read his posts from before boann.....this guy has been going off for ages now, and he can't beat anyone, with his map or a random one.

i personally have defeated a few people who come here spouting off about how good they are....

wham, i put the wonder lock on, get some respect, and let it go at that......

but to come into a forum and spout off without the back up of victories is just foolish.....so infact he is foolish...

[Ming]

This has nothing to do with his claims of mastership (which are kind of hollow since he can't beat anybody)

Or his continued ranting on how if you don't play his way, you suck...

Or his "look down his nose" attitude that he continues in every post he makes.

As proof of that, take a look at how long this thead is.

It has to do with his accusations that people here would cheat. That is a different story... It's a matter of honor, and he obviously has none.

[War4ever]

There are two golden rules here at apolyton.....
1 dont accuse others of cheating without backup
2 dont' promote/post links of warez.....

other than that.....its pretty liberal around here.....

it could be worse...

[boann]

"This has nothing to do with his claims of mastership (which are kind of hollow since he can't beat anybody)"

well so far this is hearsay

"Or his continued ranting on how if you don't play his way, you suck..."

just bragging and beating his chest...seems ive seen lots of folks come and go and beat their chests...
esp strat and eyes

"Or his "look down his nose" attitude that he continues in every post he makes."

another thing that eyes does constantly and without
mercy or regard

"As proof of that, take a look at how long this thead is."

oh brother, whats this to do with the cost of tea

"It has to do with his accusations that people here would cheat. That is a different story... It's a matter of honor, and he obviously has none. "

again i ask ....WHO has he accused????
he only said that he didn't trust....people he didn't know.
i don't see how thats twisted into a personal accusation.


and i don't know how you know he has no honor.
thats pretty harsh and cold


well im done on the subject..



but i think its pretty extreem for a first time offense and appearance

[Ming]

Originally posted by boann
well so far this is hearsay

He has been killed in every game that has been reported here... so not hearsay

just bragging and beating his chest...seems ive seen lots of folks come and go and beat their chests...
esp strat and eyes

As I said... this has nothing to do with this. Many people do it all the time, and we find much amusement in joining in the fun.

another thing that eyes does constantly and without
mercy or regard

His condesending posts have led to some typical responses, and it happens here all the time... but again, nothing to do with this situation

oh brother, whats this to do with the cost of tea

Nothing to do with the cost of tea ... but does PROVE that that there has been nothing wrong to date with his chest beating and condescending attitude... again, stuff that goes on all the time.

again i ask ....WHO has he accused????
he only said that he didn't trust....people he didn't know.
i don't see how thats twisted into a personal accusation.

It was directed at all his nay sayers in this thread. He has stated that he wouldn't trust any of us in a game because we would cheat and ignore his rules.

and i don't know how you know he has no honor.
thats pretty harsh and cold

No colder than his accusations that posters here can't be trusted to not cheat... that he has other players that do play with honor... and we aren't amoung them. People around here trust anybody until they are proven to be cheaters... He assumes without even playing that the posters here are.

but i think its pretty extreem for a first time offense and appearance

He was given the chance to apologize... and his response was to continue to say that he doesn't trust us and implied that we cheat. All he had to say is that he has no proof that any of us would cheat, and that he should wait until proof of actual cheating occured before continuing with his lack of faith, and it would have been cool... But no... he continued with his crap. Pretty thin apology, and lame at best. If he wishes to apologize for real, he can post anytime... but not until then.

The accusation without proof rule is the most important rule in an MP gaming forum... He has violated it.
MP gaming is based on trust... and if he want's to continue posting that he knows we would cheat... that his problem... but he isn't welcome here.

[DrSpike]

Still, it's a shame he's gone......this was an entertaining thread.

[rah]

My first impressions after reading Boann's post was, she makes a good point. But then I started thinking. (yes I know all of you think that's a stretch )

Boann said, 'he only said that he didn't trust....people he didn't know.'

I've probably hosted around a thousand games with probably close to a 100 different players. I only previously knew 3 in the real world. Everyone else, I met on-line. All of them, were through Apolyton or recommended by people here. EVERY time I played with them the first time, my assumption was, that they were honorably and wouldn't cheat. Maybe a bit naive, but it shows the regard that I have for the community here. And with just a very very few exceptions, my initial assumption was correct. This is an honorable community.

So, yes, I do have a problem when newbs show up and say they don't trust anyone they don't know. To play on-line games with relative strangers you must make that leap of faith if you want to join the community. Those that don't, don't really belong here.

But yes Boann, there's probably some truth on the other points you make about eyes and strat. But neither has ever questioned my honor. I'm also more willing to tolerate their chest thumping and sneering since they are tons more entertaining and don't take 3 pages to do it. They've been around longer too. If nicosar had been around that long, we probably would have cut him a little more slack on his honor comments and subsequent apology. But as it is, he's just been windy brat that doesn't know squat about the game, doesn't entertain me. He just questions my experience and honor.

RAH
Just this man's opinion, but I will respect your's, Boann.

[boann]

well thanks rah i thought i was spitting into the wind all this time..

but my opinion still stands firm...

TRUST is something earned...not given freely the first time met and not before playing one game with at least.

i think we all are on our guard playing someone new.
we watch for strangness in the game and will question things that seem not natural , much more than with someone we have played often and TRUST.

i don't see anything wrong with his comment and did
not take offense to it..
i never trust before playing and knowing .
and if your all honest with yourselves you will know its damn true.....

and he did apologize

i think you all just want to see a man grovel
i think that pissy and small minded.

get over yourselves its rather stinky in here in my opinion...too much bullshit pilling deeper and deeper

eyes is no angel and there have been worse who were
tolerated much longer and for much worse offense
than merly not trusting anyone first...

[SlowwHand]

You pathetic bastards.
You're all of a sudden worried over your honor?
You welcome that scum-sucking EyesOfNight into your arms like he's the prodigal son, but crucify this guy over remarks of his opinion on your honor. That's Rich.
Sorry, no pun intended.

[-Jrabbit]

I'm with Dr Spike. Would prefer that my pleasure reading continue... And Boann makes good points.

As far as adjudicating whether the punishment fits the crime, my take on it is that Nicosar may have gone over the line, but may be so naive that he didn't know he was doing so. The fact that he addressed the group on the topics of honor and cheating (as opposed to an individual) is the only thing unusual here. Was it an accusation? Well, I don't think it was meant as one, but the bottom line is, it was perceived as one. So the PM of Possible Doom was sent.

On the back end, Ming actually threw out a lifeline -- as he often does. Just settle down, apologize, and you're back in business. But Nicosar pulled his punches in the Abject Apology portion of the program

The judgment is Ming's to make. Caveat emptor to any poster who can't figure that out.

(...and yes, I have gone through that little dance with Ming I unwittingly crossed a 'Poly line, got the PM of Potential Death, and apologized publicly, without conditions or complaints. When a Mod says you're wrong, you're pretty much wrong. It amazes me how many people spend tons of time here yet never figure that out..)

If Nicosar's not man enough to admit he crossed the line and offer an open and sincere apology to the group as requested, well then he's made his own bed and shall lie upon it.
What's done is done, and I'll miss this thread.

[rah]

Originally posted by boann
i don't see anything wrong with his comment and did
not take offense to it..
i never trust before playing and knowing .
and if your all honest with yourselves you will know its damn true.....

and he did apologize

Yes and no. I'll actually will start with the assumption that they are honest. But you are correct, if something strange happens in a game with all regulars, I won't think anything of it. If someone new is in that game, I may start keeping turn by turn saves to check out later.
BUT my initial impression is to trust. And I will never accuse unless I'm 99% positive.

TRUST, but verify

As to the apology, I'm in between your's and Ming's opinion. It is an apology, just not a very good one. And for someone that seems to pride themselves for being eloquent, I think he intended it to be half hearted. I personally probably would have accepted it and not banned him, but I will support Ming's decision.


And Slow, yeah it's a bit over the top but, every arguement he previously brought up was successfully knocked down (at least in my opinion) so he kept changing to new arguements. Once he was left with an empty bag he used the honor card. How else do you do defend against that. I don't think I reacted as strong as Ming did. In review, I think I just called him a jerk.

[Chris 62]

But Ming, if you ban his ass, how can we continue to mock him?

[SlowwHand]

As I pointed out to Chris, guilty or not means nothing in my quest to bug Ming and RAH.
Hey! Everyone has goals.

[rah]

[DrSpike]

To be honest reading through his posts annoyed me.....but I would not say they were the same as calling someone a cheat, which is what the rule is against if I understand it correctly. Still, it's a judgment call, and the mods ultimately have to rely on their own.