Nicosar's Master Challenge

[rah]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
ALL MUST BOW DOWN BEFORE MY INCREDIBLE TALENT! IT IS I, -JRABBIT, WHO HOLDS THE ENGLIGH LANGUAGE IN MY HAND AS KING KONG DID FAY WRAY, A MIGHTY POWER, UNSTOPPABLE, MASTERING THE BEAUTY OF HIS WORLD.

The master needs to brush up on his punctuation use and a few other things that I won't mention.


back on topic

Atawa, I had to laugh at that thread.

From the sound of it, Nicosar never gets decent terrain.

[HappySunShine]

If you don't know about the no host tech rule then you are a complete rookie with absolutely no idea what rules are used by elite players. You should probably take up a new game. If you did know about the host tech rule then you are a cheater. Which would you like to choose?

[deity]

Well, we were all rookies once.

I have to admit that when I first started playing I had no idea about no tech starts, no city bribe, WLTPD or even 2x.

My first MP games, in 1999, did involve city bribe and I can't remember the no tech start being discussed until it surfaced in the forums here or at least when my playing friends started to discuss it. But because I rarely hosted maybe it was taken care of - I'm not too sure. But what I am sure of is that I only became aware of it over time.

As I said before, if Nicosar is stirring he's done a brilliant job

If he's a genuine rookie I think we can be a bit more helpful.

Having all of us here online is a VERY valuable thing - the more the better.

[deity]

I didn't realise this was an elite player forum.. btw...

I'm honoured

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by rah

The master needs to brush up on his punctuation use and a few other things that I won't mention.

No, c'mon, mention 'em all, Rich. A good grammar thread would be fun.

[Alexander's Horse]

If nicosar is an elite player i think he should outline for us a few of his MP strategies so we can learn from the master.

[Nicosar]

Narz did not cheat!

He was trying to install my scenario folder so as to play with the same rules but better graphics and he didn't do it exactly right, I guess, and so his phalanx came off looking like pikemen to you all, however when I opened the game up (alas this incident has spoiled what could've been a glorious comeback to his lucky boastfullness) they appeared as my version of phalanx and not pikemen.

I, of course, suspected foul play before I even read Atawa's first post on my thread since I saw the power graph before the game was even shut down and wondered how he could possibly have been that big, since even luck would have trouble getting him to that height. I was on the verge (two turns) of having 9 cities and maybe 5 turns from having 10, and this by about 200 AD with only a nub to grow on and not the expanse Narz got, so I think I could've remained competitive, having passed Atawa's lead of cities on me since by 400 AD I might possibly have 14 or so cities.

You cant say this game which has been spoiled denoted any lack of skill on my part, and I can only suggest that Atawa play Narz, seeing as these two people who always seem to be far ahead of me no matter how good an empire I have would make for an interesting game.

I am starting my own GIGA game, the MASTER CHALLENGE, tonight and I look forward to post the results of a civ-version which eliminates alot of luck which in the original version is all-decisive, making it more a test of skills and less a test of who can best exploit what opportunities they may or may not get.

[War4ever]

zzzzzzz no matter what land you get...some of it is luck.....luck is a part of the game...

i think the real thing were seeing here is as follows....

you suck @ss if you don't get a good plot of land...elite players overcome obstacles of bad land to remain competitive..... there are ways around virtually everything.

my advice to you is to stop playing the "real world map" at home and play random maps to get used to what MP has to offer

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Nicosar

I, of course, suspected foul play before I even read Atawa's first post on my thread since I saw the power graph before the game was even shut down and wondered how he could possibly have been that big, since even luck would have trouble getting him to that height.

If you only had 3 cities his powergraph line is going to be almost vertical.

But how did you see the powergraph "before the game was even shut down"

[Nicosar]

You want some strategy Bucephalus? You got it.

If youre playing an average player, lets say he governs his empire with his nose too close to the screen and cant see something thats more subtle by taking a step back, you build a decent army of infantry mostly, pikemen and quick phalanx, along with some archers for attacking back, nothing too capable of actually sieging and nothing that would tax you too badly to build an army of fifteen to twenty of them (depending on how big the enemy was and how much free space you have to work with) and you use this all-defense division as bait and to whiddle down his numbers; bait because you'll be using them roman-legionnaire-campaign style and march towards his border like a slow moving siege army (in two separate divisions, if you have enough units, to apply some believability) so that your other forces can land on the other side of his empire while he is gullibly busy elsewhere, and this backdoor force is the heavy catapult-plus-infantry-and-some-cavalry division, but I recommend putting some cavalry also in the fodder division to kill quickly any successful enemy units that kill your infantry at the cost of almost all their health, since the pet peeve of any good commander is seeing units with red bars getting away to heal again.

Tis a simple trick, but if your enemy is caught off guard but still confident of his military ability he will rush towards you with most of his army to prove that such an obvious attack wouldn't work against the likes of him; but dont split your heavy forces to give the fodder division some firepower in case they get through! It should all be put to the back where it can explode upon your foe!

I have used this many times, as Im sure many of you have since it is indeed nothing fancy, though it can become quite cunning when getting down to the very presice levels of movement, and I know it doesn't necessarily denote that im this great master but it should at least convince you that im not such an amateur as you would make me out to be.

This game's about to start, we'll see how poor and humble little Nicosar does.

Da GaimPlaya'

[Nicosar]

i dont mean, the power graph, i mean all the other numbers that might as well represent it like the demo. but i also retired instead of quit, so....

[HappySunShine]

Your strategy is a joke. No-bribe is a setting of rookies, not of good players. If you play no bribe, no GW, then there's not much I can do for you.

[Theseus]

This is better than 'As the World Turns'!

Do I understand correctly, the BIG GAME is happening tonight??!!

(eats much popcorn)

[Ming]

Originally posted by Nicosar
I have used this many times, as Im sure many of you have since it is indeed nothing fancy

I would never use such a strategy... Any knowledgable player will know that the "force" coming at him can't really hurt him... And all the resources you used building such an army that really can't do anything would have been better spent building new cities and caravans.

If I'm going to use that amount of resources for an army, I would at least build a ton of vet elepants... knights... or crusaders, and a couple of ships so I can surprise the heck out of the guy. And, have a hope of taking some cities. Now this will scare the heck out of your opponent. I'm afraid a few phalanxes, even a wave of them, is just going to make me laugh. Go ahead, march up to my cities... there is nothing they can do. For the cost of your entire army, I can build a few cats in the forward cities... and use the rest to build more settlers and caravans...

[Frank Johnson]

In the games I've played an attack consists of a road being built somewhere allowing a strike I thought unlikely, at a location I thought secure, with a first wave of diplomats until the cities walls are destroyed, followed by an attack force of purely the best fast combat unit available, usually crusaders, sometimes cavalry if we get that far, with garrison units sent only as an afterthought or actually rushed in the actual location after capture.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Ming

For the cost of your entire army, I can build a few cats in the forward cities... and use the rest to build more settlers and caravans...

For crying out loud, Ming... don't you know anything about Civ? Everyone knows that when a player is a true master, all others will automatically fall for such classic feints out of respect. Clearly, you aren't playing fair if you discount the threat all those phalanxes pose.

Now, please, please, pipe down a minute so the experts can enlighten us some more

[Alexander's Horse]

He attacks with pike and phalanx armies

(We really need that rolling lol added to the smilie list Ming)

[Ming]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
He attacks with pike and phalanx armies

(We really need that rolling lol added to the smilie list Ming)

I know... But you misunderstood his post... His point was to use them to "scare" you into rushing out of your cities to attack them... (something only a newbie would do)...

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ming


I know... But you misunderstood his post...

No, I didn't read the rest of it

He needs to get his comments down to a para max

[Nicosar]

Allright Ming, point and match, your score.

But I did denote 'average' player as the victim, thinking that one up on the spot out of my repetoire and not digging up the best of the best, and i know about such a defense, since it is what I would do, that to match such an army a few siege engines of my own to counter-siege their siege would be the perfect thing in my front cities. This is true.

What YOU must admit is this, though; that I laid out that strategy only ASSUMING that such skillful people would realize that i wouldnt have to pose a threat of siege to your cities, no, of course not, they are built for bait and and used as such, however they are a costly bait, and not just for your attention.

What would you do if they ignored your cities directly and started to pillage all your infrastructure, would you stand by with your garrissoned catapults and watch me? Just try and attack my veteran pikemen (phalanx even) on a hill on two thirds with your caputs, maybe youll win a couple rounds but if I had those horsemen in the rear theyd be sugar in water. And so, unless you wanted to deplete your catapult force which you NEED, cause you're not entirely sure if my big guns are just in the back of the train or not, so you bring in the cavalry. But I have pikemen. Ahhh, so now comes the whole infantry/cavalry/siege weapon army coming at me to stop me from destroying your key improvements; and now whats happened..... oh, my army in the back has just arrived, i guess you need to deploy some troops there hein? Nah, ah, ahh, remember now, those last few pikemen of mine are still in the first front, you wouldn't want them to stay there now, would you...

I indeed meant this strategy ORIGINALLY to be deployed against average players and less, and I have indeed used it before, but seeing as you have not I cannot but emphasize how much easier it would be to employ it successfully on even skilled players such as you, who though maybe would adapt to it quicker, would still be at a loss as to the big picture.

Me, id keep a good army of infantry in the front cities facing my enemy to throw at him and buy me some time if he pulled that, plus a decent net of ships around my coast lines to warn me about such a transport operation. You stay in your cities waiting, see what that gets you.

As for diplomats, NightEyes, in my game they can bribe anything they want except air units, since a chinese pilot might've shared his e-mail with one of our planes, but arranging defection is a different story. "GW"? Good wonders? you'd be surprised how much better civ gets when you remove the "omnipotence factor". Besides, a wall that is built instananeously, or, please, a 'magical workshop' that instantly converts any unit wherever it is? Why do you think Leo in civ 3 only makes it cheaper to upgrade and not instantaneous? I think maybe old sid would have to agree with me on this one.

And Bucephalus, why do you ask a master to share strategy if you cant even read it? C'mon man, what should I say; 'use good units.'?

The Game player

[Nicosar]

As for the big game; it didnt work.

We had all the people, they understood all the new rules and appreciated them as necessary, and I was about to tell them the life-dependent urgency by which they should do their turns, just moving units as quickly as possible, having premeditated them in the off turn instead of watching translated Baywatch on the spanish channel which they cant even understand but not caring, then,.......boom.

Problem.

Mac user.

Ive looked at some sites though, and i think this problem can be fixed, so we'll see; this is another delay, as fate would for some reason not want to let me prove this is indeed the best civ version around, but even fate has only so much power against Nicosar....

...The GamePlayer-

[Ming]

Originally posted by Nicosar
Allright Ming, point and match, your score.

If you say so... I was just pointing out that most of the people I play with wouldn't rush headlong to attack the units... since they don't pose a serious threat. The resourses to build such a force can be better used.

But I did denote 'average' player as the victim

Since Civ II has been available for awhile, most of the people that post here are average or better. And the newbies learn quick enough (well, most of them do)

What YOU must admit is this, though; that I laid out that strategy only ASSUMING that such skillful people would realize that i wouldnt have to pose a threat of siege to your cities, no, of course not, they are built for bait and and used as such, however they are a costly bait, and not just for your attention.

Again... bait only works if it is a serious threat. 5 elephants is a serious threat. Defensive units are never really a threat... unless you have a vet pikeman paired up with a settler, and build a city on one of his resourses that one of his cities is using (like gold... wine... iron...)

What would you do if they ignored your cities directly and started to pillage all your infrastructure

In most cases... infra structure is BEHIND your leading edge cities... to get past them, you will come under fire.
Thanks to zone of control, the fringe cities on your empire serve more as roadblocks if done properly.

And yeah, if by some chance you can get by them by using diplos to avoid zone of control, you are then cut off, and offensive units most people keep in reserve in their empire will make short work of them.

I indeed meant this strategy ORIGINALLY to be deployed against average players and less, and I have indeed used it before, but seeing as you have not I cannot but emphasize how much easier it would be to employ it successfully on even skilled players such as you, who though maybe would adapt to it quicker, would still be at a loss as to the big picture.

Granted, it "might" work against a newbie... but even an average player isn't going to be too worried about units that can't take cities. But again, the resources need to build such an army could be FAR better spent.

The trick in MP is to EXPAND... EXPAND... EXPAND... When you run out of room, you then take cities and terrain.

Me, id keep a good army of infantry in the front cities facing my enemy to throw at him and buy me some time if he pulled that, plus a decent net of ships around my coast lines to warn me about such a transport operation. You stay in your cities waiting, see what that gets you.

In the early game, if you have a decent defense, there really is nothing that can take your cities. As long as you have a few mobile offensive units that can respond quickly... Come and try to take me While you are moving that defensive, but no attack strenght army, somebody is probably sending real attack units at you

When you go at somebody, you need well defined goals.
Whether it is to take a wonder city, or just expand your empire... if you are going to expend those kind of resourses, you need to make them pay off.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Nicosar
As for the big game; it didnt work.

*snicker*

[deity]

The big game is going to happen and it looks very interesting. I'm hoping to play in it, subject to time slots...

[-Jrabbit]

Sounds like a strategy developed against the AI, which likes nothing better than to send its garrisoned units out to fight losing battles.

[Chris 62]

I wonder why he keeps trying to say he's an expert?

I have been playing this game for years, and I would say I'm average at best, yet if I saw that army he describes approaching, the first thing I would think is "What a putz, he wasted all that production on useless units".

[Ming]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Sounds like a strategy developed against the AI, which likes nothing better than to send its garrisoned units out to fight losing battles.

Good point... And that's why I prefer playing MP vs SP.
It's much more fun playing against a thinking person.

[HappySunShine]

You're right, those are so unrealistic. I mean, look at civ, it's such a realistic game. Walls suddenly appearing? Please! Horsemen taking 4000 years to circle the globe...now that's realistic. Legions taking centuries and countless generations to march on a city, that's straight out of a history book. And if you really want to get started on civ3, I'm sure we could talk about how realistic it is for a tank to lose to a warrior. I forgot how powerful axes are against 20th century technology.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Nicosar
As for the big game; it didnt work.

Problem.

Mac user.

Let's see...
1. Blame luck.
2. Blame terrain
3. Blame Apple.

Pattern?

btw, GameBlamer, the least you could do would be to cite a generic computer issue. Macs work fine in MP.

[atawa]

This guy is stupid

But still talking **** about being the master of strategy, I suggest he gets the basics right before wasting my time again.