Thread Tools
Old September 24, 2002, 06:09   #1
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
Ancient Words of Wisdom
One for LaFayette ...
Quote:
Originally posted by Sun Tzu some considerable time ago
Therefore, no one in the army is treated as well as spies, no one is given rewards as rich as spies, and no matter is more secret than the work of spies.
Please don't move this, Ming, I know it isn't really Strategy, but we can't let a forum die can we

SG[1]
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 08:37   #2
-Jrabbit
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II MultiplayerMacCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization II Succession Games
Deity
 
-Jrabbit's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: location, location
Posts: 13,220
I'll jump in with a stretegic question. I've been trying to determine if Republic is a viable govt form, and what it takes to make it worthwhile.

I've had great successin just going Monarchy - SOL and choosing either Fundy or Democracy (depending on game conditions at the time). Republic is attractive for its growth potential, but its extreme restrictions in terms of unit costs and happiness caused by (a) too many units and (b) movement outside cities make it a royal pain.

Yet I have seen (perhaps in GL?) writings suggesting a "run to Republic" strategy (ingoring Monarchy ) allowing massive early growth (WLTxD). SO --

Are Diplomats the key to successful Republic? Their defensive aid and lack of support cost (plus ability to move about) seem to suggest this is so. What other keys might I be missing?
__________________
Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008
RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

"The Borg are gay." -Drake Tungsten
-Jrabbit is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 09:22   #3
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
I believe that the advocates of early Republic (of which I am not one) gain the benefits of representation at the expense of the size of their initial empire - typically limiting themselves to about 7 cities ...

SG[1]
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 09:31   #4
-Jrabbit
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II MultiplayerMacCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization II Succession Games
Deity
 
-Jrabbit's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: location, location
Posts: 13,220
Hm, I've always had at least 10 by the time I got to Repub. And I'm well known for my incompetence at rapid expansion...

Still curious -- How does one handle the minimal defense/penalty for exploration in Rep? Just hide in your cities until they're done growing?
__________________
Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008
RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

"The Borg are gay." -Drake Tungsten
-Jrabbit is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 11:13   #5
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
Quote:
Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Still curious -- How does one handle the minimal defense/penalty for exploration in Rep? Just hide in your cities until they're done growing?
Nahhh... just pay carefull attention to the units you have on the board. Since you are allowed one unit per city to be outside before any unhappiness clicks in, you don't need to give up on exploration at all.

If your exploring units are all attached to one or two cities, attach them to other cities BEFORE you go into Republic. Plan ahead. If your intention is to rush to early republic, keep that in mind when you are sending your first explorers out.

Also... diplos make great explorers as well, and don't cause unhappiness or cost support.
A combo of a ship and a diplo from a single city works really well. Once you are far from your empire, the diplo can either get a non unit from a hut, or you can bribe another civs unit to create a non unit that doesn't cause any unhappiness or cost support.
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 12:46   #6
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
-Jrabbit, don't forget that Republic only needs one more tech than Monarchy and if you happen to get a couple of them at the start ...
Or - a last minute thought - if you start without techs, is it possible to get to Republic without the required 'junk tech' that is forced upon you going for Monarchy? If this be so, both Monarchy and Republic are only four techs from the start.
And ... a Republican Sleaze is not impossible - just a lot harder (primarily because of the two food cost of settlers) than a conventional Monarchy Sleaze. At least one of the early Succession Games was played as a Sleaze in Republic.

For my money the primary drawback of Republic as a form of government is the excruciating quantity of corruption that seems to be virtually unavoidable ... anyone got an answer to that one ... Ming?

SG[1]

------------------------------
Hooray (albeit accidentally) an active thread on Strat at last!
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 12:51   #7
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
Back on topic...

Sun Tzu defines, "...dead spies are recruited from your enemies' spies..." - what we would now call 'double agents'.

SG[1]
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 13:08   #8
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse Gits
For my money the primary drawback of Republic as a form of government is the excruciating quantity of corruption that seems to be virtually unavoidable ... anyone got an answer to that one ... Ming?
For your primary/starting cities... a direct road system to the capital works wonders. As you know, only a road system that the computer considers direct works. Just because you have a connecting road doesn't mean anything. To figure out what the computer thinks is the direct method... place your settler in the city you want to build the road to the capital from (or visa versa). On it's turn, use the go to command and select your capital. Once the unit has moved on the DIRECT path. Click on it to free it from the go to command. Build road starting on the next turn. When road is finished, use the go to command again.

This way, you will have a direct road, and it does make a difference in terms of corruption.

You can also build courthouses, but I find that as a waste of resources early in the game
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 13:27   #9
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
Am I being naive? If you use the settler trick to build the road from A to B how can you now determine The Road from B to A???

SG[1]


and re corruption - does The Road from A to capital help A or is it The Road from Capital to A that does the trick?
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 14:18   #10
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
Both routes should be identical. (I've never seen them different, but that doesn't mean I'm right) If somebody wants to test this, go ahead

I almost always build the road from the city to the capital. But I have done it in the reverse a few times, and didn't "notice" any differences...
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 15:03   #11
-Jrabbit
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II MultiplayerMacCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization II Succession Games
Deity
 
-Jrabbit's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: location, location
Posts: 13,220
OK, so clearly my biggest mistake is that I haven't tried the "straight to Republic" tech path yet.

Ming also points out another consistent flaw of mine. Most times I've tried Republic, it was a mid-game decision, by which time I already have too many units to make it practical.

These points are very instructive and will be tried in my next game.

(Currently finishing an isolationist Democracy-AC game. Right now it's 1782, and have only met 2 other civs -- one distant, one now dead.) Yeah, I know -- a good player would have landed by now. (sigh)
__________________
Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008
RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

"The Borg are gay." -Drake Tungsten
-Jrabbit is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 16:39   #12
Six Thousand Year Old Man
Civilization II Succession Games
King
 
Six Thousand Year Old Man's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ad Rock
Posts: 2,665
I haven't tried the early Republic option lately. I like Republic, but I don't rush to it. The unhappiness effects seems to negate the WLTPD effect until I have Mikes, and that rules out a really early Republic for me. And without fast growth... Republic is much less attractive.

Also, Republic does let you expand really quick... but it seems to me that this expansion won't be possible without infrastructure, which is usually in place by the time I have Mono/Mikes.

I may try skipping Republic altogether in future. I can certainly see why some take that approach.
__________________
"I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

"Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)
Six Thousand Year Old Man is offline  
Old September 24, 2002, 18:47   #13
Straybow
Civilization II Succession GamesSpanish CiversPtWDG2 TabemonoAlpha Centauri Democracy GameNationStatesGalCiv Apolyton EmpireTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersCivilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
Straybow's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: LF & SG(2)... still here in our hearts
Posts: 6,230
Ming, I'd say most times the AB path and the BA path are not coincident unless a coastline forces the paths to be coincident. For internal trade you are likely to have a fairly extensive network of roads anyway, except for rough terrain. Then you need to find out what route the AI chooses.

Settlers will sometimes go around rough terrain when goto-ing. The only real way to tell is to cheat and create superexplorers (with movement allowance bumped up to make the trip in one turn) to walk the route out.
__________________
(\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
(='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
(")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)
Straybow is offline  
Old September 25, 2002, 00:40   #14
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
Quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
For internal trade you are likely to have a fairly extensive network of roads anyway, except for rough terrain.
Later in the game, you are correct. But early in the game, I'm lucky to have a single road network connecting my early cities. I've noticed that his method does indeed reduce corruption... so until it doesn't, I will keep doing it.
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old September 25, 2002, 15:38   #15
debeest
Prince
 
Local Time: 00:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 717
There was a post, a year or two ago, that included a lovely geometric diagram of the shortest routes. (I don't know if anyone ever validated it.) I think it was in the Great Library, although I'm not checking now to see if it's still there. There seemed to be general agreement that shortest-route AB does not equal shortest-route BA, and the diagram allows you to determine the route each way.

I agree exactly with STYOM; no republic until you have Mike's and infrastructrure.
debeest is offline  
Old September 25, 2002, 19:32   #16
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
Yeah - I remember that diagram...it wasn't always correct

Early Republic can work well on green terrain yielding big food returns. However, Republican settlers are twice as greedy as those under Monarchy and this tends to slow expansion. I have had encouraging results staying in Monarchy, with the Pyramids aiding city growth, then going straight to corruption free Democracy. Magnetism becomes important using this strategy as primitive boats for trade and exploration cause double red faces, though there are ways around this problem.

-----------------------

SG(2)
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
Old September 26, 2002, 10:02   #17
-Jrabbit
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II MultiplayerMacCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization II Succession Games
Deity
 
-Jrabbit's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: location, location
Posts: 13,220
My current game is just as you describe, SG(2) -- went from Monarchy to Democracy (via SOL). The double-reds from "primitive boats" have been a real problem.

Other than Magnetism (which I now have), please describe a couple of the "ways around this problem" for me.

Thx!
__________________
Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008
RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

"The Borg are gay." -Drake Tungsten
-Jrabbit is offline  
Old September 26, 2002, 11:32   #18
Campo
Warlord
 
Campo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 282
Another reason I avoid Republic is the production issue. Units eat up so many shields that it inhibits my Wonder races. I know, I shouldn't need a lot of Wonders -- but I like having them. That shield penalty is a serious drawback early on.
Campo is offline  
Old September 26, 2002, 13:47   #19
JCP
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization III Democracy GameMacCivilization II Succession GamesScenario League / Civ2-CreationCivilization II Multiplayer
Prince
 
JCP's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris, France, Europe
Posts: 554
I've tried different ways in my games :
sometimes going directly from despotism to republic, with the shield penalty, but a good growing rate,
other times going directly from monarchy to democracy.
My opinion is : if I can support republic, I can support democracy, with no corruption and no bribing (but it's not a problem in the early game).
Republic works fine as long as I'm on the same continent that my Capital, with roads between cities.
For exploring, I dispach my units in different cities so there is only one attached unit offshore by city, even if I concentrate boat building in one.
And don't forget to build Shakespeare Theater in a costal city, to rehome in it the whole navy (and later airplanes !).
OK about diplos or spy for exploring ground units, but I also use caravans and, of course, NON units.
Diplos and spies are fragil and may be swipped to the capital at the mere contact. They may open huts, but cannot catch a barb leader for monney : they know only buy him !
__________________
JCP
Paris, FRANCE
JCP is offline  
Old September 26, 2002, 18:48   #20
La Fayette
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
King
 
Local Time: 09:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Saint-Sulpice - France
Posts: 2,616
Re: Ancient Words of Wisdom
Quote:
Originally posted by Scouse Gits
One for LaFayette ...
Quote:
Originally posted by Sun Tzu some considerable time ago
Therefore, no one in the army is treated as well as spies, no one is given rewards as rich as spies, and no matter is more secret than the work of spies.
Please don't move this, Ming, I know it isn't really Strategy, but we can't let a forum die can we

SG[1]
No one in my army is treated as well as vet spies, no one is given rewards as rich as vet spies, but no matter should be less secret than the work of vet spies after all the posts I have written giving the details of their various abilities .

About roads, the 'shortest' from A to B is generally different from the one from B to A, except when you can draw a straight line between A and B ( = if the GOTO command gives a straight direct path, without any change of direction between the 2 cities).

About early Republic, I would say " if you are at war, or if you hate micromanaging, or if you have been beaten to the Gardens and Mike: forget it".
But if you have peaceful neighbours, the HG (+ Mike later on), a nice food surplus in most cities of yours and a number of commodity caravans on their way, early Rep can bring you a very nice boost through WLTCD.
La Fayette is offline  
Old September 27, 2002, 02:38   #21
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
Quote:
Originally posted by -Jrabbit
... -- went from Monarchy to Democracy (via SOL). ...
That sounds like a dreadful waste of 8 caravans to me!!

If the aim is to go to Demo, why build SoL - use the Oedo table instead, much cheaper ...

If you can't lay your hands on the Oedo table, promise yourself to play honestly and at the end of turn save, revolt and see - reload if not oedo, but make no changes that are influenced by the observed inter turn information and repeat until revolution is successful - no cheat in my book, just using the game to tell you when the Oedo year falls

SG[1]
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
Old September 27, 2002, 02:46   #22
Straybow
Civilization II Succession GamesSpanish CiversPtWDG2 TabemonoAlpha Centauri Democracy GameNationStatesGalCiv Apolyton EmpireTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersCivilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
Straybow's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: LF & SG(2)... still here in our hearts
Posts: 6,230
I play Rep because it is a challenge. Most any deity player can beat the AI from Monarchy (or even Despotism I suppose, I've never tried). The war unhappiness and unit support serves to rein in military growth.
__________________
(\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
(='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
(")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)
Straybow is offline  
Old September 27, 2002, 02:52   #23
Alexander's Horse
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
Alexander's Horse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a tunnel under the DMZ
Posts: 12,273
In x1 deity going straight to republic is the preferred strat in MP games.

It has a number of advantages:

In the course of getting there you have a shot at the main happy wonders - the chapel and Bach's.

You can get philosophy first, which gives you an extra tech - important in a tight game, particularly if you are in the happy wonder race.

You can start WLTLD early and enjoy masive growth.

The number of cities you can develop is not limited but you do get major unhappies once you get above 10 and again above 20 (I forget the exact number of cities for each). But this can be worked around.

Anyway a big advantage over democracy is you can leave some cities unhappy and just keep expanding. They still grow whilst unhappy.

A skilled player going straight to republic will kill a player who stays in monarchy for any length of time.
__________________
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer.

Look, I just don't anymore, okay?
Alexander's Horse is offline  
Old September 27, 2002, 02:53   #24
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
We used to play the Anarchy challange, where no real govenment is allowed. It didn't really cause any serious problems in winning a game
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old September 27, 2002, 08:00   #25
Messer Niccolò
Prince
 
Messer Niccolò's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: of the Sarzaneers
Posts: 429
... err... Ming, you played Anarchy challenge SP against AI or in MP making the "angry mobs war"?
__________________
googol... this is a number!
"Silence Ming. I will let you know when I feel you are needed." - HappySunShine
"Classic Eyes...But in reality, it works the other way around." - Ming
Messer Niccolò is offline  
Old September 27, 2002, 10:25   #26
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
Quote:
Originally posted by Messer Niccolò
... err... Ming, you played Anarchy challenge SP against AI or in MP making the "angry mobs war"?
Only against the AI... I was playing all the "challenges" when there was nobody around to play MP with
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old September 27, 2002, 12:47   #27
Marquis de Sodaq
King
 
Marquis de Sodaq's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: ... no, a Marquis.
Posts: 2,179
I advocate early republic - first you really need to have most roads and irrigation ready. Settlers eat two wheatsheafs in republic, you're better off settling them before the switch. You then have a militarily weak (barring NON unit acquisition), small republic. However, within 10-20 turns, you have a bustling, wealthy, high powered science machine. With WLT*D, your cities swell large enough to produce enough shields to support a few units. You'll never have the production of monarchy, but the trade-off is vastly improved arrow production. My favorite . Camels are double lovable, as well - because your cities have nearly double arrow totals, caravan payoff is vastly increased.

Look at it as a short spell of being a weenie civ in order to leap ahead thereafter.
__________________
The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)

The gift of speech is given to many,
intelligence to few.
Marquis de Sodaq is offline  
Old September 27, 2002, 17:48   #28
Elephant
Prince
 
Elephant's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Phila PA
Posts: 828
Quote:
Originally posted by -Jrabbit
My current game is just as you describe, SG(2) -- went from Monarchy to Democracy (via SOL). The double-reds from "primitive boats" have been a real problem.

Other than Magnetism (which I now have), please describe a couple of the "ways around this problem" for me.
Jrabbit:
"Primitive boats" are triremes and caravels, ships that have at least one Attack point. Anything with an Attack rating will count against your city happiness in Republic or Democracy. In Republic, the first unit outside of a city or fortress near a city is OK. So if you have triremes or caravels out, any other units from that city need to be at home. You can move ships around to rehome them (move them into another city and select "Support from this city"), or bring other land units home. Another strategy for solving the problem is to build Shakespeares Theatre in a coastal city and rehome all your ships and "foreign legions" in that one city. Or build Leonardos Workshop and let it upgrade all your Triremes and Caravels to Galleons, which have no attack points. Later in the game you can build Womens Suffrage, which decreases the unhappiness from units away from home (there is an irony in that, but I won't get political here!). But then, don't you get transports around the time you can build WS?
Elephant is offline  
Old September 30, 2002, 01:24   #29
ramses II.
Prince
 
ramses II.'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Essen, Germany
Posts: 331
Having build Mike's, I go immediately to Republic with a high science rate, researching for key techs to build Adam Smith's, SoL an J.S.Bachs. During that time I trade and trade and trade. When I get SoL, I switch to Demo for a while, then I go to Fundy to make some money. Every new founded city will get a temple immediately, for this raises my income.
When I have managed to build the wonders (and some more - in Fundy, with low research, it's important to get those two extra techs) my research goes to the techs needed for the UN, Cure For Cancer and Hoover Dam, maybe Newton's, too. All these wonders are paid from my fundy-income.
When I get J.S.Bachs, I let my cities celebrate (HG+Mike's+Bach's = CELEBRATION) for a while - BIG CA$H! Had games where I earned more than 2000 gold a turn. And I continue trading with celebrating cities.
__________________
There are no silly questions - only silly answers
<a href="http://www.sethos.gmxhome.de">Strategy Guide</a>
ramses II. is offline  
Old September 30, 2002, 04:05   #30
Scouse Gits
lifer
Civilization II PBEMTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersGalCiv Apolyton EmpireApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization II Succession Games
Emperor
 
Scouse Gits's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:29
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,344
ramses II ... try going to Democracy without the switch to Fundy. This has the following benefits:

1) Save 8 caravans NOT building SoL ... use them for a science wonder or JSB.
2) If you are trading hard your freight returns will be greater in Democracy.
3) As your cities continue to grow in Demo so does your wealth. Population growth is more important than any short term gain from tithes in Fundamentalism

--------------------

SG(2)
__________________
"Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
"One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit
Scouse Gits is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:29.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team