Where will the mongols 4-2-2 mounted UU show up on the tech tree?

Artifex · September 27, 2002, 16:55

Any ideas? If it is early-mid ancient age it will be devastating.

I can't wait to play the mongols.

statusperfect · September 27, 2002, 19:03

I've heard it will be a cheap knight replacement.

WarpStorm · September 27, 2002, 19:28

Same here, cheaper, and goes through mountains like grassland (?).

statusperfect · September 28, 2002, 03:18

Quote:

Originally posted by WarpStorm
Same here, cheaper, and goes through mountains like grassland (?).

I can confirm that. Heard that too.

Mr. President · September 28, 2002, 03:29

That would make sense, as Genghis Khan came west around that time.

LionQ · September 28, 2002, 04:25

If I look to the factor 4.2.2, I think it will be an early MiddleAgeUnit. Knight replacement I think.

Zero · September 28, 2002, 11:11

I think that they would be exactly the same as knight except one defense less. (reminds you of civ II knight anyonw?) Normally, if uber units wouldn't get any stat increase, it would have to be balanced with cost reduction or no resource req (like elephants). but obviously keshik is a mounted unit and it even gets stat reduction.

This is gonna be one cheap knight... how much are they normally? 40? 50? Keshik might be as cheap as 20 or 30... which means Mass invasion thru keshiks... which would be very effective.

Caliban · September 28, 2002, 12:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Calc II
This is gonna be one cheap knight... how much are they normally? 40? 50? Keshik might be as cheap as 20 or 30... which means Mass invasion thru keshiks... which would be very effective.

But given the... strange combat engine of CivIII, dozens of keshiks would always kill any defending unit, even if it is much more powerful! Sounds unbalancing to my ears...

Inverse Icarus · September 28, 2002, 13:24

ALL the units are getting tweaked (IIRC), so a spearman might not be 1-2-1 anymore, but it probably is

Caliban · September 28, 2002, 13:35

Quote:

Originally posted by UberKruX
ALL the units are getting tweaked (IIRC), so a spearman might not be 1-2-1 anymore, but it probably is

Really? Source?

Kingof the Apes · September 28, 2002, 13:59

they'll probably tweak stuff like ships and aircraft, IMHO.

statusperfect · September 29, 2002, 06:03

Quote:

Originally posted by UberKruX
ALL the units are getting tweaked (IIRC), so a spearman might not be 1-2-1 anymore, but it probably is

LionQ · September 29, 2002, 09:21

Quote:

Originally posted by UberKruX
ALL the units are getting tweaked (IIRC), so a spearman might not be 1-2-1 anymore, but it probably is

Oh, is that so? Source? I hope they change the Spearman to 1.3.1! More information on CivFanaticsCenter: Persian Immo's

LionQ · September 29, 2002, 09:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Calc II
This is gonna be one cheap knight... how much are they normally? 40? 50? Keshik might be as cheap as 20 or 30... which means Mass invasion thru keshiks... which would be very effective.

The Knight costs 70 Shields at the moment? So a MongolKeshik of 30 Shields will be very lucrative!

GePap · September 29, 2002, 18:22

a 4-2-2 unit sounds more like an upgraded Longswordmen (planned 4-2-1) than a knight replacement. The cost cutting would have to be great to make up for the loss of 1 defensive point.

The Celtic unit sounds lilek a powerhouse. 3-2-2 unit with ironworking? A far more powerful unit than any other swordman replacement (get to retreat unlike immortal)

JtheJackal · September 29, 2002, 18:25

There is also a chance it might be changed before the game is released.

statusperfect · September 30, 2002, 05:39

Who says Celt Swordsmen retreat? They may be tweaked so they have extra move but don't get to retreat.

Caliban · September 30, 2002, 14:18

Quote:

Originally posted by statusperfect
Who says Celt Swordsmen retreat? They may be tweaked so they have extra move but don't get to retreat.

I think that every unit with more than one movement point has the chance to retreat when it attacks a unit with just one movment point...

ruby_maser · September 30, 2002, 15:39

if the mongol keshik is gonna be 4-2-2 and cost only 30 gold per unit its gonna be a brutal attack weapon. With the shear number that could be built and the unfortunate scenario were your civ is located next to theirs, your infrastructure could really work against you. I wonder if the Mongol AI will be predisposed to not being very good with its own production and improvements. That might hold them back somewhat, but in the hands of a good military-minded human opponent, it would be devastatingly effective.

Artifex · September 30, 2002, 23:12

Just read a preview of PTW in new issue of CGW. Apparently the mongol unit "keshik" is gonna be a mounted archer and replace the longbowman unit.

Interesting.

Artifex · September 30, 2002, 23:14

Also in the article all of those units that can't be upgraded..like swordsmen and such will all be able to be upgraded/modernized to "guerilla units" for ongoing utility. Thought that was kinda neat.

Zero · October 2, 2002, 00:55

wow, so they will have two mounted unit in middle age... that will defintely make them a favorite for mass invader style play.

also, Im glad to hear they will be tweaking existing units... most of units were alright, and i dont feel spearmen needs tweaking (most ppl here seems to want it) but MUSKETMEN defintely need one. stupid thing has one offense and one defense more than a pikemen and it cost twice as much and you rarely use it to attack anything anyway... Wat a garbage unit.

Zero · October 2, 2002, 00:58

I would have preferred ultra cheap knight idea... it would have been interesting to see uber unit that is weaker than normal but not only blances it, but retains the reputation of uber unit by other means, but I guess this way you have both reg. knight and keshik.... too bad emoticon can't create a grin that reflect the size that I am having right now...

Btw, doesnt PTW uber unit seem as far superior than regular civ uber units? well if they are tweaking existing units, hopefully that issue is being addressed....

LionQ · October 3, 2002, 13:48

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap
a 4-2-2 unit sounds more like an upgraded Longswordmen (planned 4-2-1) than a knight replacement. The cost cutting would have to be great to make up for the loss of 1 defensive point.

The Celtic unit sounds lilek a powerhouse. 3-2-2 unit with ironworking? A far more powerful unit than any other swordman replacement (get to retreat unlike immortal)

LongSwordMan? What's that? Do you mean the already existing SwordsMan or is it a new unit in Civ III: PTW?

LionQ · October 3, 2002, 13:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Artifex
Just read a preview of PTW in new issue of CGW. Apparently the mongol unit "keshik" is gonna be a mounted archer and replace the longbowman unit.

Interesting.

And historical very correct. Thank you, Firaxis....

Caliban · October 4, 2002, 12:27

Quote:

Originally posted by CivilopediaCity

And historical very correct. Thank you, Firaxis....

LionQ · October 4, 2002, 15:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Caliban

What???