AI Negotiations Involve Exchanges?

Gatekeeper · December 31, 2000, 17:53

Everyone:

When the AI civilizations negotiate peace or co-existence among themselves, do they offer each other technology and/or money in exchange for peace?

I am curious because I noticed the Mongol Empire suddenly started using crusaders against me w/o gaining the technology via research or stealing. The game is set to scenario, where I've forbidden the AI to exchange techs during trades, conquering cities or through alliances ... but would that be enough to prevent "coercion" among AI civilizations? The only other AIs to have crusaders (besides me) are the Zulus and Chinese.

Thanks for any insight you folks can provide.

CYBERAmazon

Lefty Scaevola · December 31, 2000, 18:30

If there is only one otw crusaders, they might be mercinaries from huts.

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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
Pontificator Pendanticus
older richer & wiser than you

shamrock · December 31, 2000, 18:32

How do you forbid the AI to exchange techs during negotiations? I'm only aware of the option of "preventing techs from conquest."

Not sure if it answers your question, but I am certain that AI civs routinely acquire techs from other AI civs. Just observe the reports that pop up when you have UN, e.g. "Indians acquire Mobile Warfare from Greeks" followed by "Greeks acquire Plastics from the Indians." I don't know how you can prevent this (without implementing your scenario in TOT).

Wiglaf · December 31, 2000, 19:27

quote:

w/o gaining the technology via research or stealing

How do you know it wasn't through stealing? Maybe sometimes the cpu gets away with it, the same way the human player does every once in a while.

Gatekeeper · December 31, 2000, 22:18

quote:

Originally posted by SMACed on 12-31-2000 06:27 PM
[QUOTE]How do you know it wasn't through stealing? Maybe sometimes the cpu gets away with it, the same way the human player does every once in a while.

SMACed:

Because I prevent espionage involving tech stealing. Since I do not participate in it, neither will I allow the AI to do so. I've got embassies with all the nations as well, so I'd be aware of any tech stealing.

CYBERAmazon

Gatekeeper · December 31, 2000, 22:21

quote:

Originally posted by shamrock on 12-31-2000 05:32 PM
How do you forbid the AI to exchange techs during negotiations? I'm only aware of the option of "preventing techs from conquest."

Not sure if it answers your question, but I am certain that AI civs routinely acquire techs from other AI civs. Just observe the reports that pop up when you have UN, e.g. "Indians acquire Mobile Warfare from Greeks" followed by "Greeks acquire Plastics from the Indians." I don't know how you can prevent this (without implementing your scenario in TOT).

Shamrock:

By toggling the "prevent techs from conquest" option in one's scenario panel, you can also keep the AI from exchanging techs via trades. The only way the AI (or you, for that matter) can get techs is via stealing or — as I hypothesized in this thread — through peace/tolerance negotiations.

CYBERAmazon

Gatekeeper · December 31, 2000, 22:22

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola on 12-31-2000 05:30 PM
If there is only one otw crusaders, they might be mercinaries from huts.

Lefty:

Nope. Quite regular appearances, which indicates manufacturing. Vets, too, since the Mongols have Sun Tzu's War Academy.

CYBERAmazon

Smash · December 31, 2000, 22:36

quote:

I've got embassies with all the nations

Well,do they have Monotheism?

Gatekeeper · January 1, 2001, 01:22

quote:

Originally posted by Smash on 12-31-2000 09:36 PM
Well,do they have Monotheism?

Smash:

At the time Mongolian crusaders popped up, only myself, the Chinese and Zulus had monotheism. I repeat: Mongolia did not acquire this through research or from stealing. Neither from a goodie hut, as I had those erased at the start of the game. IMHO, that leaves only coercision on Mongolia's part from probably China, which was weaker at the time. If true, that would add a nice dimension to the game.

CYBERAmazon

Wiglaf · January 1, 2001, 08:26

quote:

At the time Mongolian crusaders popped up, only myself, the Chinese and Zulus had monotheism. I repeat: Mongolia did not acquire this through research or from stealing

They didn't acquire it at all, then? Naturally not, without monotheism.

MacUser · January 1, 2001, 14:10

Geez!! I never thought about!!

I will certainly pay more attention to this! Let see...

(Hostile AI Civ 1 + Hostile AI Civ 2)Alliance = HUMAN TOAST!

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Be what you is and not what you is not. Folks who do that are the happiest lot!
- Mr. Wizard the Lizard,
[This message has been edited by MacUser (edited January 01, 2001).]

Smash · January 1, 2001, 17:57

well lets see..no huts,no exchanges,no tech form capture

Getting it by demanding tribute.Or,most likely,bribing the crusaders away.

Gatekeeper · January 1, 2001, 19:31

quote:

Originally posted by MacUser on 01-01-2001 01:10 PM
Geez!! I never thought about!!

I will certainly pay more attention to this! Let see...

(Hostile AI Civ 1 + Hostile AI Civ 2)Alliance = HUMAN TOAST!

MacUser:

I cannot tell if you're being serious or somewhat sardonic. As it stands, I have this game toggled so the AI *cannot* trade techs no matter, no how. Even through alliances — which was why I activated the toggle in the first place. Didn't enjoy Stone Age societies getting armor and howitzers overnight because some other civilization decided to patronize them to get at me.

The only way the AI can get techs is either by trading with me, through research or through coercion of their neighors in peace/tolerance talks. It's the latter option that has me fascinated because I didn't think it was possible. Yet the Mongols suddenly got crusaders w/o research or stealing or through conquering.

CYBERAmazon

MacUser · January 2, 2001, 08:48

quote:

Originally posted by CYBERAmazon on 01-01-2001 06:31 PM
MacUser:

I cannot tell if you're being serious or somewhat sardonic.

Serious! (although somewhat embarassed!

) I honestly never thought of the AI as being sophisticated enough to form alliances. I have always assumed that they acted independent of each other: everyone trying to whack me! I think that I have noticed them acquiring techs from each other, but I didn't associate that with an alliance.

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Be what you is and not what you is not. Folks who do that are the happiest lot!
- Mr. Wizard the Lizard,

Laertes · January 2, 2001, 11:33

Quite frequently, I notice that "Americans acquire Gunpowder from Greeks" and "Greeks acquire Republic from Americans" messages happen immediately prior to a peace agreement, so I am sure they trade.

Also, the alliance messages that pop up increassingly in the end game inevitably lead to floods of tech swapping, which is why I never give away any techs past about 1700 AD.

Scouse Gits · January 3, 2001, 19:52

I like it when they start signing pacts - you are winning!

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SG (2)

Wiglaf · January 3, 2001, 22:23

quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 01-03-2001 06:52 PM
I like it when they start signing pacts - you are winning!

No, not really. They might do it because another AI is winning...

Albert B · January 4, 2001, 01:28

quote:

Originally posted by MacUser on 01-02-2001 07:48 AMI think that I have noticed them acquiring techs from each other, but I didn't associate that with an alliance.

MacUser, haven't you ever received the "Germans and Russians sign the Kiev Pact to stop American agression" message? Once you get to a certain point of power these messages start popping up like brush fires in a California summer. They are the result of the AI signing alliances. Later, if you attack one of these countries, you receive the "Germans evoke alliance with Russians, Russians declare war with the US." The computer often uses alliances.

Albert B

Rufus T. Firefly · January 4, 2001, 06:25

quote:

Originally posted by CYBERAmazon on 01-01-2001 06:31 PM
The only way the AI can get techs is either by trading with me, through research or through coercion of their neighors in peace/tolerance talks. It's the latter option that has me fascinated because I didn't think it was possible. Yet the Mongols suddenly got crusaders w/o research or stealing or through conquering.

Like the little guy there says, I'm confused: are you saying that the Mongols got monotheism through some route you cannot discern, or are you saying that they are building crusaders without having monotheism? If the latter, it would surely be the biggest AI cheat ever! But if the former, then it's probably coersion and/or tribute, which happens to me a lot; either somebody shows up and demands to spare me the wrath of their mighty armies in exchange for a tech (very common), or they give me a tech when I demand tribute (rarer, but it happens).

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[This message has been edited by Rufus T. Firefly (edited January 04, 2001).]