It is done...Dutch right wing governement collapses

Saint Marcus · October 16, 2002, 12:41

Dutch right wing governement collapses

and it's about goddamn time!

they set a record though, they were in power for just 87 days, the shortest period since WW2.

So this mean we'll get new elections in januari 2003.

I'm so happy

Bereta_Eder · October 16, 2002, 12:44

you start looking like italy

chequita guevara · October 16, 2002, 12:47

Clear Skies · October 16, 2002, 12:58

Link here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2333075.stm

Makes you wonder how long the German coalition will last...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2331857.stm

Anodyne · October 16, 2002, 13:02

Hahaa!

DinoDoc · October 16, 2002, 13:32

Now you only have to do it a few more times before Italy can finally hold its head up high.

Zopperoni · October 16, 2002, 13:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
So this mean we'll get new elections in januari 2003.

According to NRC/Handelsblad, there will be elections on either December 11th or December 18th.

Saint Marcus · October 16, 2002, 13:40

oh, and for those who think liberal and conservative are opposites, read the BBC article provided by CS.

"the conservative Liberal VVD party"

Saint Marcus · October 16, 2002, 13:43

Quote:

According to NRC/Handelsblad, there will be elections on either December 11th or December 18th.

That's technically not possible (probably). Politicians (and TV) report that the likely date for new elections will be sometime in Januari, most likely the 8th.

Solly · October 17, 2002, 05:55

It's January.

Urban Ranger · October 17, 2002, 06:07

On the Net, it is considered very bad form to pick on somebody else's spelling and grammar.

Robert Plomp · October 17, 2002, 06:34

I liked the governament, Balkenende is a good Prime Minister, but I like it to have new elections as well, since it seems like we, CDA, will get another 8 seats

(so far in the polls)

AND we will face a huge amound of new parties, all splitted of from the LPF. (The List Pim Fortuyn)

we're going to have a New List Pim Fortuyn

And of course a Real List Pim Fortuyn and all that.

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 06:58

Quote:

On the Net, it is considered very bad form to pick on somebody else's spelling and grammar.

Spink has no ethics.

Quote:

I liked the governament, Balkenende is a good Prime Minister, but I like it to have new elections as well, since it seems like we, CDA, will get another 8 seats (so far in the polls)

everyone seems to rise

CDA, PvdA, VVD, Groenlinks, SP are all up in the polls. LPF and D66 are down. LN depends on the poll (either stay at 2 seats, or fall to 1). ChristenUnie and SGP are both staying the same at 4 and 2.

Anyway, Balkenende isn't that good a PM. For the past 3 months, he hasn't been a very good leader dealing with the issues in the LPF. And it was his responsability. After all, problems in the LPF reflected badly on the reputation of the governement, and the PM is responsable for keeping that reputation high. Balkenende should have intervened earlier, or should ended this coalition at least a month ago.

Zalm did pretty well though. I already knew for some time that he was going to blow this thing up. He's a very good politician (though he doesn't quite play fair). I may not like his party, or the man himself, but he's without doubt the best politician (take it as a compliment or an insult) we have in this country.

Robert Plomp · October 17, 2002, 07:43

Quote:

LPF and D66 are down

the days of D66 are finally over. I hate the party.
After Van Mierlo left, they only got left over a bunch of idiots with too large ego's.

Quote:

Anyway, Balkenende isn't that good a PM. For the past 3 months, he hasn't been a very good leader dealing with the issues in the LPF.

I think nobody could have dealed with this issue, not even Ruud Lubbers. Bonhoff and Heinsbroek came into the cabinet only to fullfill their own ego's. Nothing could have helped the LPF party.

Whatever Balkenende would have done, people would have told him that he was to blame. If he wuoldn't have formed a cabinet with LPF people would have said he didn't take his responsibility. Now he did form a cabinet with them, he's blamed for not being capable to control the fights in the LPF party.

I think Balkenende did as most damage control as he could, he has been damaged indeed, but there was no way for him to not be damaged. Which is a sad thing for such a to be respected person.

Quote:

Balkenende should have intervened earlier, or should ended this coalition at least a month ago.

Even earlier than this?
He should have ended the coalition before it's formation in that case

If he would have ended it 1 month ago, people would have claimed there were no problems in the cabinet, but only in the LPF. And people would have told him he should give the LPF some time.

He couldn't have ended it earlier. Of course with the knowledge of the the after........

Quote:

but he's without doubt the best politician (take it as a compliment or an insult) we have in this country.

Zalm is a very good debater. That's true. I think people like Balkenende, who's indeed not such a good debater, are equal politicians though. They just have capabilities on different issues. I think it's good to have a new CDA-VVD cabinet after the elections.

The opposition is truely a wrackage. The PvdA doesn't even have a leader, Thom de Graaf will just lose half of his seats again. The only opposition party I respect (eventhough I disagree with them ) is the SP.

Marijnnese is a nice and respectfull man.

Robert Plomp · October 17, 2002, 07:44

Why are we discussing this in English?
As if any english speaking person is interested

Ming, is it ok if we discuss this in dutch?

Skanky Burns · October 17, 2002, 07:52

Wait a sec Cyber, most of the posters here (in this thread) aren't Dutch!

Clear Skies · October 17, 2002, 08:37

Scuse me! Interested non-Dutch person here!

Rufus T. Firefly · October 17, 2002, 08:44

Second that. I'd move to the Netherlands if I could figure out how to do it and make it pay; I love that country. Please keep it in English for all us interested outsiders.

Zopperoni · October 17, 2002, 08:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Anyway, Balkenende isn't that good a PM. For the past 3 months, he hasn't been a very good leader dealing with the issues in the LPF. And it was his responsability.

You can't fight fate.

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 09:03

Quote:

The opposition is truely a wrackage. The PvdA doesn't even have a leader, Thom de Graaf will just lose half of his seats again. The only opposition party I respect (eventhough I disagree with them ) is the SP.

why don't you mention the second biggest oposition party? Groenlinks is doing quite well, and is up and the polls. They, together with the SP, have been doing an amazing job. And yeah, D66 is doing badly, but they have less seats than both GL and SP to begin with.

Quote:

I think people like Balkenende, who's indeed not such a good debater, are equal politicians though.

yes, people like JP, but you can't say he's an equally good politician to Zalm, cause Balkenende has hardly any experience whatsoever. Time will tell, but so far he hasn't impressed me. He could have done worse, but he was by no means brilliant.

Anyway, I think the VVD have been planning the collapse of the coalition for months now, cause as it stands it's win-win situation for them.

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 09:04

Quote:

You can't fight fate.

irrelevant. a PM is always responsable.

Solly · October 17, 2002, 09:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
On the Net, it is considered very bad form to pick on somebody else's spelling and grammar.

I wasn't picking on it, I was helping out someone whose first language isn't English.

It's only like pointing out to a mate that they have food on their chin. Or something.

Dr. Stiby · October 17, 2002, 09:55

Quote:

Dutch right wing governement collapses

and it's about goddamn time!

I agree it was about time for the LPF to leave the cabinet. I don't think too much will change though. The CDA and the VVD are all set to too continue on their current track. They are likely to acquire a majority of the votes, so I don't expect too much changes (apart from a bigger opposition).

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 10:00

they aren't all that likely to get a solid majority of the votes together. The last poll showed a good lead, but the poll the day before showed only a very marginal lead. That poll even showed the PvdA bigger as the VVD.

Dr. Stiby · October 17, 2002, 10:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
they aren't all that likely to get a solid majority of the votes together. The last poll showed a good lead, but the poll the day before showed only a very marginal lead. That poll even showed the PvdA bigger as the VVD.

I know the PvdA and VVD are close and that a combination of either of these with the CDA will probably get a (be it small) majority. However, the CDA will want to avoid the inconsistency of suddenly going a leftish direction and cooperate with the PvdA.
I do hope for a leftwing governement however, though I don't see it happen here until 2006/7.

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 10:09

what is the CDA and VVD only get 70-74 seats? Or what if they get 75-78 seats? In the first case, a third party is needed. In the second case, a third party is desirable (there are always some absentees, or disidents).

Zopperoni · October 17, 2002, 10:19

Polls, shmolls...

IIRC, the polling wasn't that accurate in May.

Dr. Stiby · October 17, 2002, 10:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
what is the CDA and VVD only get 70-74 seats? Or what if they get 75-78 seats? In the first case, a third party is needed. In the second case, a third party is desirable (there are always some absentees, or disidents).

Depends on what all the LPF spinoffs will do. Though it's debatable

wether VVD and CDA will indulge in a coalition with an LPF-related party again, I see an alternative. It's up to Leefbaar Nederland to show to the people that their beliefs are basically the same as Fortuyns. The difference being, however, LN does provide a well-structured organisation.
Otherwise, a small christian party

might fill the gap.
I'll keep track on the polls the following weeks.

(just trying some new smilies (haven't been around here for a while, don't know how new they are)).

Zopperoni · October 17, 2002, 10:27

On a sidenote, I would be rather amused if Heinsbroek were to go and form his own party and compete in the elections.

Goingonit · October 17, 2002, 10:37

I love good ol' left-wing Dutch policies.

And that right-wing government was nothing but bad news.