It is done...Dutch right wing governement collapses - Page 2

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 10:38

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Otherwise, a small christian party might fill the gap.

reason enough for me to migrate out of here

Dr. Stiby · October 17, 2002, 10:41

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Originally posted by Saint Marcus

reason enough for me to migrate out of here

It won't be that bad. You'll just have Bertus van der Vlies as the new minister for integration and emancipation and the SGP will be extremely happy!

(you just gotta love this smileys!!!)

Robert Plomp · October 17, 2002, 10:53

I don't think the SGP will participate in that case

Maybe CU, but if they only have 4 seats.........

D66 will be as big as CU.

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 11:04

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You'll just have Bertus van der Vlies as the new minister for integration and emancipation and the SGP will be extremely happy!

That will be the end of women rights.

If any of the Christian parties gets in the governement, it's the end of gay rights, abortion and euthanasia, legal drugs and prostitution, etc. And if the SGP gets in, the women in the country will actually really have something to complain about.

Dr. Stiby · October 17, 2002, 11:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus

That will be the end of women rights.

If any of the Christian parties gets in the governement, it's the end of gay rights, abortion and euthanasia, legal drugs and prostitution, etc. And if the SGP gets in, the women in the country will actually really have something to complain about.

Hope you don't take this threat too serious. If the SGP were to join the coalition, they will still have hardly any influence. Maybe they can push through one major topic (being maybe less gay rights, or ban on abortion) and deliver but one minister, so things won't go that bad any time soon.

Robert Plomp · October 17, 2002, 11:18

I don't think a party with 2-4 seats can accomplish any of those issues.

Dr. Stiby · October 17, 2002, 11:23

If the SGP is needed to get a majority they will use their position to make demands. Of course these demands can not be high, so I think they will use their position to accomplish on of these things (abortion, euthanasia, etc.) The CDA will not make a big problem of it, willing to keep in touch with christian voters.
Leaves the VVD, who are more reluctant, but might use this as a trade for afschaffing van de onroerend zaak belasting (I didn't have a clue how to say this in English!), or something.

kolpo · October 17, 2002, 11:35

Have PVDA plus VVD a majority?

Zopperoni · October 17, 2002, 12:01

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Originally posted by kolpo
Have PVDA plus VVD a majority?

As it stands: no.
Based on poll results: also no.

Then again, those polls are nothing to go by.

CDA could end up with 60 seats and VVD with 30, giving them clear majority...nihihihi

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 13:19

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Based on poll results: also no.

based on the last two poll results, the PvdA and CDA have a majority

Hueij · October 17, 2002, 14:22

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one major topic (being maybe less gay rights, or ban on abortion) and deliver but one minister, so things won't go that bad any time soon.

Won't go that bad? Less gay rights, ban on abortion? These are two of the things that make the Netherlands the Netherlands! Those Christians better make sure they won't take ANY of our rights away!

Any things about grammer wrong or spelling Stewie?

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 14:32

for those who say the CU or SGP won't make such demands...during the last election they were asked if they wanted to join the governement if they were asked. They would, but only if certain laws were turned back (on abortion, gay rights, euthanasia).

Zopperoni · October 17, 2002, 14:32

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Originally posted by Saint Marcus
based on the last two poll results, the PvdA and CDA have a majority

That's not what he asked, he asked about PvdA + VVD, the two of them wouldn't even hit sixty seats according to the polls.

Zopperoni · October 17, 2002, 14:34

[Gotta love DPs

]

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 14:37

sorry, can't read.

they together won't have enough, not even with D66

but even if they had enough, they wouldn't govern together again after purple 1 and 2.

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 14:39

so there are really these options:

right:

CDA+VVD
CDA+VVD+CU

left:

CDA+PvdA
CDA+PvdA+D66
CDA+PvdA+GL

Zopperoni · October 17, 2002, 14:43

Hm, somehow I don't think anyone will give a rat's ass about those few seats D66 are going to bring in

Maybe the SP will make a charge, you never know

Oldenbarnevelt · October 17, 2002, 15:14

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Originally posted by Saint Marcus
CDA+PvdA+GL

Met Rosenmöller op Heropvoeding en Singh Varma op Financiën...

--

DinoDoc · October 17, 2002, 15:16

What would be the most unstable coalition? I'd like to see the country do this a few more times.

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 15:21

unstable? another governement with the LPF

don't know about LN either, with only 2 seats they couldn't have much a split, could they?

Robert Plomp · October 17, 2002, 16:33

VVD + CDA: This is what I hope. I think it'll be the best cabinet to pass through the economic dip.

VVD + CDA + CU: If CU is needed to give VVD/CDA majority, this is my 2nd choise. I think CU is a very stable party. I think the CU will agree if their entrance in the cabinet will ensure that no more christian controversial subjects will pass the 2nd room.

CDA + PvdA: I don't think a cabinet with PvdA will be able to solve problems in the WAO and the immigration.

CDA + PvdA + SP: I respect the SP very much (eventhough I disagree on most subjects with them) but I don't consider them to be governamental.

CDA + PvdA + GL: I disrespect Rosenmuller very much. He always stands against the monarchy, but right now he makes an elecoral issue about Claus' burial and the cabinet crisis. He has a point, but he goes to far with it. Besides that do I very disprespect the green-liars.

CDA + PvdA + D66

CDA + VVD + SGP: no way.

Last option:

CDA + VVD + List Winny de Jong + Nieuwe Lijst PF + LPF + LN + Nieuwe Lijst Jan Nagel + Lijst Wijnschenk + Herben en the poor boys + Verale & Co + Lijst van As + Hoogendijk Vooruit

Zopperoni · October 17, 2002, 16:39

...+ Lijst Herman Heinsbroek

Hueij · October 17, 2002, 16:57

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Originally posted by Zopperoni
...+ Lijst Herman Heinsbroek

Please no Dutch here. Ming might think you wrote something that could hurt little Dutch children and send you to Mingopulco...

So you better change that in "...+ List Herman Heinspants".

Zopperoni · October 17, 2002, 17:06

Hm, I guess the same goes for Highdyke Forward, Winny the Young, List from Ash, Winepour, and John Nail then.

germanos · October 17, 2002, 17:06

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Originally posted by CyberShy
VVD + CDA + CU: If CU is needed to give VVD/CDA majority, this is my 2nd choise. I think CU is a very stable party. I think the CU will agree if their entrance in the cabinet will ensure that no more christian controversial subjects will pass the 2nd room.

Forget it, and praying won't help.

The VVD are still Liberals, they won't govern with cristian fundamentalists. The ChristenUnie is only a notch less fundamental as the SGP, and you correctly stated that is a NoGo as well.

Hueij · October 17, 2002, 17:12

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Originally posted by Zopperoni
Hm, I guess the same goes for Highdyke Forward, Winny the Young, List from Ash, Winepour, and John Nail then.

No, even Hoogendijk in English should be a censored word here. ********** will do (******** in English)...

Edit: just noticed, **** is a very offensive word in American-English

Don't use it again...

germanos · October 17, 2002, 17:25

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
What would be the most unstable coalition? I'd like to see the country do this a few more times.

I have no idea why DinoDoc wants this so bad, but he may well get what he wants. The LPF (=List Personal Favoratism) made such an incredible mess, and have insulted the 1,5 million (17%) voters to such an astonishing degree, that it is very likely that a stable government might be years from now.

This will mean minority government looking for support from various parties in the parlement for the various issues that need to be solved.

A bigger issue is that the voters for the LPF had lost their faith in politics and politicians earlier, and hoped the LPF could earn their trust since they seemed to share their views abd feelings. Now it turns out they have been screwed by those very people. The very people who voted for the LPF because they wanted Law and Order, might very well turn their back on the government as a whole, and the social fabric, allready fragile, could have well been dealt a destructive blow.

I can only hope that many people will start to wonder if their mistrust of a boring man like Ad Melkert was justified. And that their cry for a flamboyant character like Fortuyn in politics should not be satisfied on stage in a Stand-Up Comedian Stage instead of the Political Arena.

It is not likely to happen though. I think that what we have seen the last year is only a small forcast of the troubles and instability the Netherlands will have to face in the future.

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 17:27

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I disrespect Rosenmuller very much. He always stands against the monarchy, but right now he makes an elecoral issue about Claus' burial and the cabinet crisis. He has a point, but he goes to far with it. Besides that do I very disprespect the green-liars.

are you turning into another Fez or something? (disrespect, green-liars)

A. Groenlinks isn't a strong oposer of the Monarchy, that's the SP and D66.
B. Disrespect Rosenmuller? why? he's one of the best guys we have in politics. and he was the only one who beat Pim Fortuyn in a direct debate. The only one.
C. the argument about Claus burial goes for all oposition parties, not just Rosenmuller. And besides, he was absolutely right. It's awfull that the governement talked about these issues on the day Claus got buried.
D. green-liars? why? cause of Singh Varma? that's a bit cheap, I can point out lots of politicians who pulled all sorts of crap.

So please, before you turn into a Christian Democratic version of Giancarlo, back up your claims. Especcially the ones on your disrespect for the Greens, Rosenmuller in particular, and an explanation on why Greens are all liars.

Quote:

The VVD are still Liberals, they won't govern with cristian fundamentalists. The ChristenUnie is only a notch less fundamental as the SGP, and you correctly stated that is a NoGo as well.

Not too fast...the VVD is mainly concerned with economic policies, and not these controversial topics. Also, if the VVD says no to the CU, the CDA might look to the PvdA as a coalition party (if the VVD and CDA don't get enough seats). And besides the CU, there's not party that may join a VVD+CDA coalition. The others are too unstable, inexperienced or leftist.

Ming · October 17, 2002, 17:29

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Originally posted by Hueij
Please no Dutch here.

Good advice... I would hate see a thread closed/deleted because some people can't follow the rules of this site

Saint Marcus · October 17, 2002, 17:33

are other languages illegal here on poly? what about all the finnish threads?