Soren: A Question About F11 Screen

Jon Shafer · October 21, 2002, 13:54

If you could give us a rough (or exact, whatever you prefer

) equation on how Productivity and GNP is calculated, I would appreciate it.

There's a lot of speculation on what they mean, but I don't think anyone here knows for sure.

DeepO · October 21, 2002, 14:04

Well... some educated guess from someone who isn't sure: productivity is the total amount of unwasted shields in all your cities. GNP is the total amount uncorrupted commerce

DeepO

Raion · October 21, 2002, 14:54

I do not know, I just look at the screen, and try and see if I am number one, if not, well, then I must be losing.
If I am winning, then I will probably have someone in the computer AI wanting to take me to task.

The Pioneer · October 21, 2002, 15:14

I second that Trip! I always wanted to know what they mean!

Soren?

So long...

Alex · October 21, 2002, 15:56

I don't care about that information. For me, it is enough to know that I'm number one or not. If Civ3 had more depth to its economic simulation, I'd be interested to know more things about that screen.

DeepO · October 22, 2002, 08:09

I have to agree with what has been said here, if the F11 screen would indicate who is first when you are second, it would be a lot more helpful.

BTW, the production formula I used wasn't right, it has to be something else. Possibly it is the (unwasted) total of all your cities, added with the number of mines in your empire (that was true in my last game, at least up until the point where I couldn't easily count it anymore). The GNP seems to hold up, though. That is the total amount of uncorrupted commerce.

DeepO

Tiberius · October 22, 2002, 09:26

Quote:

GNP is the total amount uncorrupted commerce

I agree if by "total amount of commerce" you mean total commerce that remains after science and luxury expenditures are deducted. I don't even know why is it called GNP ???

Tiberius · October 22, 2002, 09:33

Btw, I agree that Firaxis could give us an exact expanation of how these are calculated.

It would be also very useful to know who is No1., No.2, etc.

Tiberius · October 22, 2002, 09:35

Quote:

Originally posted by DeepO
Possibly it is the (unwasted) total of all your cities, added with the number of mines in your empire (that was true in my last game, at least up until the point where I couldn't easily count it anymore). DeepO

How about productivity=total civ production/total nr. of tiles within your borders or total civ production/nr. of cities? Just a guess.

Nym · October 22, 2002, 10:11

For me GNP is the total income: if your total income is 3657 gold, your GNP will be 3657 millions. Compare the figures between the Domestic Advisor screen and the F11 screen.

DeepO · October 22, 2002, 10:12

Tiberius, I indeed wanted to say the total amount of gold you produce in your empire at that turn....

As to the tiles: that didn't hold for last game, I had way more tiles, so my production should have been a lot lower. It was already lower then just counting the shields, something has to modify it upwards.

DeepO

DeepO · October 22, 2002, 10:13

Damn.. crossposted. Nym, that's most likely the right thing... I have to check it when I get home

DeepO

Tiberius · October 22, 2002, 10:16

Edited: Ahh, some crossposting.

DeepO: Exactly, total amount of gold, not commerce. The total amount of commerce is divided in GNP, science and luxury, with the F1 sliders.

Nym: Right, but what do you mean by "total income" ? If by total income you mean total gold, then it's correct.

Nym · October 22, 2002, 10:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius
Edited: Ahh, some crossposting.

DeepO: Exactly, total amount of gold, not commerce. The total amount of commerce is divided in GNP, science and luxury, with the F1 sliders.

Nym: Right, but what do you mean by "total income" ? If by total income you mean total gold, then it's correct.

What I called total income is in fact the total income from cities (top left corner of the Domestic Advisor ). If I am correct, this value is used for GNP.

Tiberius · October 22, 2002, 10:52

Hmm, I think you are right. I suppose I was talking about civ2.

GNP=total income, then.

PS Is it so difficult to write a page in the civilopedia to explain?

Jon Shafer · October 22, 2002, 16:54

Cripes, you're right... GNP is the amount of cash you get per turn.

Not sure how I missed that one.

That still leaves productivity... C'mon Soren...

Also, what does it mean if the value is in blue, instead of black?

Catt · October 22, 2002, 17:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
Cripes, you're right... GNP is the amount of cash you get per turn.

Not sure how I missed that one.

That still leaves productivity... C'mon Soren...

Also, what does it mean if the value is in blue, instead of black?

Rank number 1 of all civs gets blue. Rank of 2 or lower gets black.

Catt

Jon Shafer · October 22, 2002, 17:05

Of civs you have contact with or what? 'Cause I could have sworn while testing my scenario a lot of countries had their values blue (and they were all quite different)...

Catt · October 22, 2002, 17:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
Of civs you have contact with or what? 'Cause I could have sworn while testing my scenario a lot of countries had their values blue (and they were all quite different)...

Ah . . . I've never tested it by looking at different civs in the same game through the editor or a saved game editor.

But I've noticed that when I rank number 1 it is blue, otherwise, black. I've also noticed that it has to be all civs (not just known) since I have ranked lower than the number of civs with whom I have contact. I've also noticed that a tie still counts as first place and so could be 1 (and blue) for many civs at the same time (pollution, for instance).

Catt

Jon Shafer · October 22, 2002, 17:24

The scenario I'm currently working on... Prussia is on the left, France on the right, nothing changed between loading the scenario for each country.

vmxa1 · October 22, 2002, 17:26

Yes because at the start all have the same pollution level.

Jon Shafer · October 22, 2002, 17:32

And Mfg. Goods and Productivity?

Catt · October 22, 2002, 17:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
The scenario I'm currently working on... Prussia is on the left, France on the right, nothing changed between loading the scenario for each country.

Do France and Prussia have contact? How many civs? I see that Prussia ranks 15th in one category, so either it has contact with at least 14 other civs, or the rankings take into account unknown civs as well. And yet how could the GNP and Manufacturing ranks be "1" for each when the output is so different?

Despite the questions raised by your screenshots, notice that the Rank #1's are in blue and the rank #2 or lower are in black

.

Catt

Jon Shafer · October 22, 2002, 17:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt
Do France and Prussia have contact? How many civs? I see that Prussia ranks 15th in one category, so either it has contact with at least 14 other civs, or the rankings take into account unknown civs as well. And yet how could the GNP and Manufacturing ranks be "1" for each when the output is so different?

15 civs, none of them have contact with each other.

Quote:

Despite the questions raised by your screenshots, notice that the Rank #1's are in blue and the rank #2 or lower are in black

.

vmxa1 · October 22, 2002, 19:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
And Mfg. Goods and Productivity?

Merely saying that you could all be rank #1 in pollution for a while as it will be 0 for all for some time. Any value that is the same for more than one civ can have the same ranking.

Vlad Antlerkov · October 22, 2002, 21:43

In my experience, Productivity was net commerce+net shields. Whether it's for the entire empire or for your cities averaged, I'm not sure (since I only noticed it when playing an OCC game)...

vmxa1 · October 22, 2002, 22:45

Vlad, your avatar reminds me of one of the anti heroes in an early Superman movie.

Wise Ass · October 23, 2002, 01:33

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Vlad, your avatar reminds me of one of the anti heroes in an early Superman movie.

It was I think.

It's wicked that one nation dominates in something and they are both ranked 1