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Old October 26, 2002, 08:47   #31
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Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


So will the Russian Federation make an exception for these guys?
In this case, I really don't know.
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Old October 26, 2002, 08:51   #32
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It is strange terrorists didn't had gasmasks - quite a big flaw in the organization, since gasmaks aren't that hard to get at all... At least they are easier to get than machine guns and bombs.
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Old October 26, 2002, 08:54   #33
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I wish I could see your face if you spent 3 days wearing gas mask.
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Old October 26, 2002, 08:55   #34
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Hmm, last I heard all but 2 of the terrorists were killed in the action, although there were rumors that a handful managed to escape.

So I don't think the death penalty thing is too much to worry about. Hopefully the Russians won't take out their anger on the Chechen population though, viscious circle and all that...
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Old October 26, 2002, 08:58   #35
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The next time terrorists will attack Russia on such scale there will be no hostage taking. After this action they probably already understood the obvious, Russia isnt going to leave.
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:00   #36
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Hmm, last I heard all but 2 of the terrorists were killed in the action, although there were rumors that a handful managed to escape.

So I don't think the death penalty thing is too much to worry about. Hopefully the Russians won't take out their anger on the Chechen population though, viscious circle and all that...
About 30 suspects arested. It's beleived that they observed the situation from outside and told information to terrorists which were within theater. And this "escaped" guy was actually one of the arested, as it was said later.
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:05   #37
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Originally posted by Eli
The next time terrorists will attack Russia on such scale there will be no hostage taking. After this action they probably already understood the obvious, Russia isnt going to leave.
Russia isn't going to fullfil terrorist demands. TERRORISTS, not rebels or gunman as your media decribe them. THEY ARE TERRORISTS
When you start to saying the truth to yourselves?
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:10   #38
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Serb, they are rebels anyway.

Word rebel can cross with word terrorist:
Rebel - anyone, fighting against government
Terrorist - anyone intentionally killing innocent people to fulfill his needs

Thus one, fighting against government in a peace time and killing innocent people in the way would be rebel terrorist.
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:12   #39
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However, by my description Russian army are also terrorists, because as far as I know they are also intentionally killing lots of civilians in Chechenya...

(I will probably translate and post here an interview with Chechenyan ambassador to Lithuania later)
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:27   #40
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What you mean gunmen and rebels? Our media has been calling them terrorists all long. There are Chechen rebels, but these are terrorists.

I'm glad it's over now. Though 67 were lost, I consider this a major success for Russian special forces. They did very very good.. I'm sorry for the lost lives, it's still tragic, but at the same time I congratulate the soldiers who took part in the action and succeeded.
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:28   #41
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what kind of gas did they use?

just saw the news, an expert of some kind thought it may have been CO2.
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:30   #42
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some of the women terrorists appeared to have been shot while unconscious
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:33   #43
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Pekka, so did Lithuanian media. However, if you'd read articles on CNN, you'd see they are called gunmen or rebels there.
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:51   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gangerolf
some of the women terrorists appeared to have been shot while unconscious
Yes. They were sleeping and the Russians didnt want to mess with the explosives belts so they just killed them.
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Old October 26, 2002, 09:52   #45
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Gangerwolf, they shot most of terrorists while unconscious.
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Old October 26, 2002, 11:17   #46
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Gangerwolf, they shot most of terrorists while unconscious.
I don't doubt it. Special Forces (Army etc) have only one mission.
Kill ALL terrorists and save as many hostages as possible.

If Special Forces go in, the situation has gone beyond the natural Police criteria for arresting criminals. As such Societies usually reserve Special Forces for extreme situations.

A terrorist might survive a Police action, they will never survive a Special Forces action.
 
Old October 26, 2002, 11:20   #47
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This was absolutely amazing. I didn't realize that Russian Forces were this well trained... this was specutular... I never even heard of a rescue like this before... 67 hostages did die, and that is highly tragic. But over 700 were saved, and that is an excellent victory.

This will also give Putin extra support, and give a massive morale boost to the Russian Army. I mean a massive one.

I was expecting to read headlines:

"All hostages die in explosion"

But due to the success, hundreds and hundreds were saved. I wouldn't be surprised if the hostage takers killed those 67 before the raid.

Chechen rebels are terrorists, and they were responsible for this tragedy. I hope Russia goes in Chechyna and takes out these groups for good.
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Old October 26, 2002, 11:42   #48
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Fez, I doubt these been killed before the raid. They said they would start killings in 6:00 AM, later they claimed that will happen in 8:00 AM. Raid was done in 2:00 AM.
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Old October 26, 2002, 11:46   #49
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So you would trust terrorists? I certainly wouldnīt. They probably killed those who were trying to escape... these 67 could of been those trying to escape when the terrorists first took over.

Again I will say donīt trust terrorists, especially not these ones. Nonetheless, this rescue was stunning... and saved over 700 people.
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Old October 26, 2002, 11:53   #50
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No, I wouldn't, but there is other evidence that hostages were alive before the raid, like not hearing gunfires from thater and reports from other hostages.
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:16   #51
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New info : more than 90 hostages were killed in the operation.
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:22   #52
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Eli, are you using this to justify the continued occupation of the West Bank by the Israelis?
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:30   #53
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Quote:
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Eli, are you using this to justify the continued occupation of the West Bank by the Israelis?
If he is, you can use this as an excuse for the continued occupation of Tibet by China.
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:31   #54
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This ended a little better than most of the other huge hostage takings, though the percentage of kiled vs saved sounds baout the same as many of the other large hostage takings.

This has become a very common Chechen tactic. I fear that the only thing that will cang is that the Chechens will be more brutal- and take better precautions.

It is interesting that in the US these Chechens are always refered to as gunmen or rebels, and not the catch-all terrorist term.
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:36   #55
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Eli, are you using this to justify the continued occupation of the West Bank by the Israelis?
Using what?
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:40   #56
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If he is, you can use this as an excuse for the continued occupation of Tibet by China.
So why is the US still on Mexico territory?
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:45   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by GePap
This ended a little better than most of the other huge hostage takings, though the percentage of kiled vs saved sounds baout the same as many of the other large hostage takings.

This has become a very common Chechen tactic. I fear that the only thing that will cang is that the Chechens will be more brutal- and take better precautions.

It is interesting that in the US these Chechens are always refered to as gunmen or rebels, and not the catch-all terrorist term.
Not only Chechens, Palestinians and many others also. Re-read my previous post please for reasons, also please note that word gunmen is perhaps more "appropriate" to use for independent broadcasting stations, because that fits both opinions (ones who supports independence and ones who are against it), and if broadcasting station truly wants to remain independent in people's eyes it can't bash anything, even obviously bad things.
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:46   #58
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So why is the US still on Mexico territory?
Lets have vote of all hispanic people in the Southwest and a vote of all native Tibetans and we will see who is happy with their current sitution .
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:52   #59
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Fez, this guy was trying to justify terrorists from the beginning of crisis (sure he will start to deny this now, but he was). So I donít think his pathetic fantasies deserves anyoneís attention. Iím sure we will listen more fairytales from him about this situation later, when heíll pull all needed fact out of his ass. Like conspiracy theory or something of that kind.
Quote:
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No, I wouldn't, but there is other evidence that hostages were alive before the raid, like not hearing gunfires from thater and reports from other hostages.
And you based your statement on what? A bunch of journalist who was just few hundreds meters away from theater said that they heard gunfire. Hostages told that terrorist killed two hostages and all hostages saw this and panic started. Sure itís not a surprise that you donít heard this gunfire in Lithuania itís pretty far away from Moscow.
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Old October 26, 2002, 12:56   #60
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Now the death toll of the hostages is close to 100. And the special forces won't reveal what kind of gas they used, so doctors are having trouble treating those hostages with gas poisoning.
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