How are the new Civs?

nationalist · November 1, 2002, 01:19

Could everyone take a moment and stop griping about Multiplayer and start discussing how the new civs fit into the game? Are they balanced, or ar some of those new UUs just too powerful? How much of a pain in the but are the Mongols? How are the new units? Personally, I couldn't care less about multiplayer as long as the single player game has been enhanced.

monkspider · November 1, 2002, 01:33

Mongols are a pain in the butt, as always.

Vikings are probably the biggest pain the rear though.

Here's my run-down Nat.

Mongols- Mil/Exp
A great war-monger civ. Only an okay UU, the Keshik, but it comes at the "sweet spot" golden age wise. I would say they right up there with the really good Warmonger civs like the Zulu, Germany, etc.

Spanish - Com/Rel
Here is a great builder civ. Com/Rel is a great combo for the peaceful-minded players. Their UU, the Conquistador is bollocks though. Too expensive for what it does, IMHO.

Korea- Sci/Com Another good pick for the builder type players. The lack of lethal land bombard for the H'wacha is regettable, but you can find the Beta-tester mod has fixed this at least. With lethal land enabled, the hwacha is a surprisingly useful unit. it essentially provides the capabilities of artillery in the middle ages. All in all a good civ, one of my favorites actually.

Carthage- Ind/Com
My personal favorite of the new civs. Mostly for historical purposes, but the Ind/Com combo is great combined with one of the upper-echelon UUs in PTW, the Numidian merc, a a 2-3-1 spearman. A real game breaker in the early game.

Vikings- Mil/Exp
Probably my least favorite of the new civs, but they have almost undoubtedly the most fearsome UU in the game, the Beserker. A 6-2-1 Longbowman essentially. These guys really strike fear in the hearts of other civs. As an old English prayer once said "God save us from the fury of the Norsemen".

Ottoman Empire- Sci/Ind
A good civ that leans toward peaceful intentions. I'm not crazy about their UU however. It is a cavalry with +2 attack that costs twenty shields more. To me, that more or less evens out with a normal cavalry and offers no real bonuses as such. But all in all,; a great civ that has long deserved a spot in a civ game.

Arabs-Rel/Exp
Probably my second favorite of the new civs, Religious and Expansionst are my two favorite traits, and it's always fun to declare jihad on lowly infidel civs.

Their UU is probably in the bottom half of new UUs thouguh. Basically a knight that costs a little bit less, and requires one less resource but loses a defense point.

All in all, the single player features are impeccable. If you are interested in only single player, then I must insist you go out and get PTW as soon as you are through reading this!

monkspider · November 1, 2002, 01:39

This is all based on the original game of course. If you check out the beta-tester mod that comes on the CD, you will find that they have addressed a lot of the balance issues related with various UUs, including old ones like the Man-O-War.
For example, the Arab Ansar Warrior is now given blitz, which is a lot of fun.

nationalist · November 1, 2002, 01:40

The Berserker sounds to me like it might be a bit unbalancing. Can't wait to use it

alva · November 1, 2002, 02:12

Quote:

Ottoman Empire- Sci/Ind
It is a cavalry with +2 attack that costs twenty shields more. To me, that more or less evens out with a normal cavalry and offers no real bonuses as such.

Well, I havn't played ptw

, so this IS theoretical

The one big advantage I see for this unit is it prolonged lifespan.
Even versus infantry this unit (maybe coppled to a canon) stands a chance. And in a defesive attack versus tanks it's even on par.
This makes a pretty good unit in my book

asleepathewheel · November 1, 2002, 02:51

I like the celts, that 2 move sword is pretty sweet. the problem I have with it though is that you can't build them after getting medieval infantry. I would rather have the extra move at that time than the extra attack. the upgrade to med inf. is free however.

my current game is the spanish, haven't gotten to the conquistador yet, but so far theyre ok

Dominae · November 1, 2002, 03:14

The 2/3/1 unit of the Carthaginians seems very very good (although I haven't played a full game with them yet...). Even if the Shield cost is increased from Spearmen, this Industrious civ shouldn't have any trouble popping these guys out every few turns. Now tell me: what is better than a Hoplite that can counter-attack effectively? Definitely my personal favorite (although there remains a sweet spot in my heart for the Mongols, a remnant from Civ2).

Dominae

monkspider · November 1, 2002, 03:22

The mongols are really cool in the beta tester mod. The Keshik can cross hills as well as mountains with impunity!

ixnay · November 1, 2002, 03:25

I must say, the Ottoman Sipahi looks damn cool riding around on a horse brandishing a pistol in each hand.

In both games I've played so far, the Ottomans played the peaceful builder role until they reached the late middle ages, at which point they started rampaging everywhere with their Sipahis. I like Carthage and their UU.

vmxa1 · November 1, 2002, 03:42

I bemoan the lack of any mil/ind civs.

monkspider · November 1, 2002, 03:50

There's always China VMX.

Falconius · November 1, 2002, 04:01

Tha manual states the ADM for the Numidian Mercenary (Carthage's UU) is 2.2.1. But in the game, it is actually 2.3.1, a much tougher defense in the early game. I may actually edit in the game to make the manual right. 2.3.1 means it has a bonus for both offense and defense over the spearman, and is even better than the Greek UU, the 1.3.1 hoplite.

alva · November 1, 2002, 04:14

2.2.1 allready excists (Babylonian bowmen).

Pyrodrew · November 1, 2002, 09:03

Quote:

I may actually edit in the game to make the manual right.

Just like with the original game, the manual is always wrong.

Nyl · November 1, 2002, 10:49

The change to the Mercs is listed in the readme...

vmxa1 · November 1, 2002, 14:12

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
There's always China VMX.

True, but I have to at least give the new civs a look first.

vmxa1 · November 1, 2002, 14:14

I can live with the manual being wrong, just please make the civped correct.

Dominae · November 1, 2002, 14:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Falconius
Tha manual states the ADM for the Numidian Mercenary (Carthage's UU) is 2.2.1. But in the game, it is actually 2.3.1, a much tougher defense in the early game. I may actually edit in the game to make the manual right. 2.3.1 means it has a bonus for both offense and defense over the spearman, and is even better than the Greek UU, the 1.3.1 hoplite.

No need to edit just yet, I don't think; the Numidian Mercs cost more Shields to produce than regular Spearmen, which presumably balances it. Whereas in stock Civ3 all the UUs had simple modifications of their ADM values compared to their regular counterparts, in Play the World Shield costs (and other things) are affected as well. It's worth checking excatly which units cost more now, as the changes are significant (for instance, the Mongols' Knight UU costs 10 Shields less than a regular Knight, IIRC).

Dominae

asleepathewheel · November 1, 2002, 15:46

don't care for the Spanish uu

would rather beeline for cavs than navigation.

4-2-2 (all roads) is ok, but against musketmen is not great.

monkspider · November 1, 2002, 16:07

Actually they're only 3-2-2 Sleepy

They cost about as much as cavalry to boot.

asleepathewheel · November 1, 2002, 16:28

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
Actually they're only 3-2-2 Sleepy

They cost about as much as cavalry to boot.

doh, right, I was just going my (flawed) memory. Which makes them even worse. That makes it tricky even to have them fire a golden age. what are you going to kill? have to catch a unit outside or heavily damaged I suppose.

Solver · November 1, 2002, 16:33

I fear Carthagian UU can be unbalancing. Just think, Greek Hoplites make them basically invincible to archer attacks, while this thing can also attack reasonably well... you just build nothing but these and conquer everyone! Damn, no unit till the Cavalry can serve attack and defense purposes at the same time...

And the Berserker... when I get Invention, I can attack civs with Pikemen and maybe Musketeers, who both fall to an attack of 6.

But I haven't got the game yet, though.

SlightlyMadman · November 1, 2002, 19:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Solver
I fear Carthagian UU can be unbalancing. Just think, Greek Hoplites make them basically invincible to archer attacks, while this thing can also attack reasonably well... you just build nothing but these and conquer everyone! Damn, no unit till the Cavalry can serve attack and defense purposes at the same time...

I haven't found that to be the case. The added expense is really significant, and the cost of building defensive units in your town really cuts into your offensive budget. You can't perform so much of a sweeping takeover with them, but they're great for smaller strikes (get that resource!), or as city defenders that are capable of a retaliatory strike, to knock out wounded attackers (this is their best feature, IMO).

Quote:

And the Berserker... when I get Invention, I can attack civs with Pikemen and maybe Musketeers, who both fall to an attack of 6.

I have to agree with you there. Berserkers are freaking broken. There are really 2 choices in PTW: Play as the Scandinavians, or eliminate them in the ancient era. They'll continue to dominate until tanks start to roll.

asleepathewheel · November 1, 2002, 20:23

Quote:

Originally posted by SlightlyMadman

I have to agree with you there. Berserkers are freaking broken. There are really 2 choices in PTW: Play as the Scandinavians, or eliminate them in the ancient era. They'll continue to dominate until tanks start to roll.

I made that mistake in a recent game.

they were across a strait from me, galleys could cross.
I attacked with horses, and captured 2 cities. Was forced to abandon them in the face of a strong courter by swordsmen, thus they were somewhat crippled, (razed trondheim with pyramids) but not eliminated.

Iwas preparing to attack after chivalry, as they were back in the ancient age, but some jackass traded them feudalism.

now I see these scandy galleys all over the place and I'm scared.

i can't really attack them, since the second I land, my forces will be swallowed by the berserks. Plue they would get their golden age, which would be bad. sigh. Numerical superiority for me doesn't help much in this situation.

statusperfect · November 2, 2002, 04:57

Quote:

Originally posted by SlightlyMadman
I have to agree with you there. Berserkers are freaking broken. There are really 2 choices in PTW: Play as the Scandinavians, or eliminate them in the ancient era. They'll continue to dominate until tanks start to roll.

That's GREAT! Scandinavians... rulers of the world!

msnyds1 · November 2, 2002, 08:02

Need people who want to play a Email game

I have 5 players need 3 more email me with civ preference
name
icq #
city and state where you live

msnyds1@ameritech.net

thanks

Mike Snyder

syf · November 2, 2002, 09:38

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
Vikings- Mil/Exp
Probably my least favorite of the new civs, but they have almost undoubtedly the most fearsome UU in the game, the Beserker. A 6-2-1 Longbowman essentially. These guys really strike fear in the hearts of other civs. As an old English prayer once said "God save us from the fury of the Norsemen".

also worth noting that it's the first amphibious unit

FrustratedPoet · November 2, 2002, 10:09

Quote:

Originally posted by msnyds1
Need people who want to play a Email game

I have 5 players need 3 more email me with civ preference
name
icq #
city and state where you live

msnyds1@ameritech.net

thanks

Mike Snyder

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